Dear Raul, FWIW I was considering purchase of a London Decca Reference until my friend and designer of the Trans-Fi Terminator tonearm disposed of his after comparison to a NOS flat-nose Acutex M320III STR.
Regards,
Regards,
Who needs a MM cartridge type when we have MC?
Dgarreston, the designer is absolutely correct on his comparison. The deccas are good carts but too much hype and as a result the price on line has gone up. I recently got a 4RC version but I am in no hurry to test it. I have a feeling that it will be the same old sound. On the bottom end, a lot of positives have been said about the cart but actually what people are hearing is just loudness which gives a false sense of really going deep. To my ears and in my system, the Pioneer PC-Q1 gives a better performance in that region. One thing I will say is that the cart shows a lot of promise and maybe, just maybe with some tweaks on the internals it may sing like a champion canary. Time will tell. Stay tuned you all. |
Dear Dgarretson: Well, the flat nose M320 is hard to beat. As Audiopulse posted there are so many hype " down there ". There are very satisfied Decca owners as Stoneagainagtain and if I remember Dover too and several other that do not like it. I think that if one Decca cross my " road " at nice/bargain price I will buy it. In the mean time I will ask my friend if can borrow me his sample . Thank's for your very value info. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Audpulse, Exactly the Deccas need research & development, their unique design/systems is not completed yet. I also was considering buy a Jubilee from Vic the Magician but he wanted to keep it for his second system at the time, so I saved a minor fortune, in retrospect. Some time later for my surprise he told he had sold his Decca Reference to purchase some top of the line MM carts from different manufactures. He found that the ACUTEX M320 IIISTR is the most satisfying cart in his mighty system (regards Spirit), particularly with no sibilance issues (his hyper sensitive linear tracker reveals easily if a cart has sibilance, the Deccas didn´t have that annoying thing). If the Deccas will be improved in near future they deserve to be taken more seriously. |
The Audio Technica 13ea with an At 155lc stylus is awesome. I know its hard to believe that it works this well, but it is as good a cartridge as I own. I would like to hear what others are hearing, in case I've lost my mind. If you don't want to risk messing up a top stylus, I bet one of the rebuilders would transplant it cheap. I have a At160ml I am thinking of transplanting into a Precept body. Should be close to an Precept 550ml. |
Halcro, Banquo363, Lew, I would appreciate it if one of you would reply with a measurement I need from a TT-101. Looking for measurement from mounting surface to the bottom of the metal cover. I have a TT-71 I'm making a plinth for with hopes to drop a TT-101 in it in the future. The 71 is shorter than the 81 and 101. Thanks |
Ecir, My posts are not being blocked from this thread, or so it seems. This one will serve as a test. I will be happy to measure my TT101 for you, when I get it back from servicing. Meantime, you might try to download either the owners manual or the service manual, from Vinyl Engine. There you may or may not find the desired dimension. But couldn't you also just use longer "feet", once you graduate to the TT101? That is, let the lower part of the TT101 hang down below your plinth and just add length to the footers to provide the necessary clearance. |
Lew, hanging below the plinth is the problem I am trying to avoid. There would also be a problem with pod height too if I make them for a 71 and have to change height to accommodate the 101. Hoping to get it right the first go around. Audpulse, Vintage Knob shows the 81 101 to be 30mm taller than the 71. Problem is the dimensions they give for the 71 don't match my actual 71 so I am suspect. |
Regards, Acman3: Good to hear you're pleased with the Frankencart. A stable and forward soundstage with solid imaging were the 1st features to catch my attention. Impression is front & center in an intimate venue, layering stays locked in and a sense of ambience without phasing is well delivered. The cart itself is of solid construction, ringing derived from self-resonance is not evident. I suspect (imagine?) a slight midrange resonance consequent to the 13Ea's 1200 Ohm output inductance. If so, this transitions nicely through the mids, merging smoothly with the 14k natural resonance of beryllium. With the 155lc assembly hfs are, as expected, extended while avoiding exaggeration. Bass is appropriate with good clarity and clean transitions. There is little evidence of either overshoot or overhang throughout the range of response. Voice is slightly on the warm side with a suggestion of that elusive quality described as "air", detailed with no suggestion of the acerbic. This cart may be a mutt but IMHO most listeners would find it a musical mutt. Peace, |
Lew, to give you a visual. I have the material to make three pods. The plinth will be a CLD round one only a few mm's larger than the OD x the 3.5" H. Both would be coupled by the same footers. This will be easy for me to build and will give a platform for future mods. Future mods would include footers like Banquo363 and Chris have made to try nude. The other would be another CLD plinth with this one having cantilevers to accepts two or three separate armboards. ie Micro DDX 1000. |
Dear Lewm: +++++ " My reservations also have something to do with the fact that I would need to use their P-mount adapter. It looks to be a flimsy plastic thing that could do no good for the sound. " +++++ my experiences through my B&O MMC2 were/are with its B&O dedicated mount adapter that's a lot better/strong than any other P-mount adapter that came with other cartridges. Even with that B&O adapter the cartridge is just great. All the people in this thread and in other net forums heard the MMC1/2 with that B&O adapter. If you want something that could be better then you can look it from SS. Browse in the link and at the end of the page you will see it: http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/boall.html Lewm, I respect your opinion that maybe you will put on sale in NOS condition but if I was you I will hear it: the B&O experience is a must to have. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Timeltel, Aceman3, Looking at AT carts, there seems to be a qualitative relationship with lack of reactance. That is reflected in the resistance vs impedance. The top generators, 20SS, PC440, 550 etc have resistance and impedance nearly the same value. Even though the 12E, 13E(a) are high inductance designs, the 1200 ohm impedance is very close to its resistance, and inductance too for that matter. This motor has a natural sounding presentation and it's not surprising (to me) that you're getting great results with a beryllium/LC. Have you tried a 20SS stylus on there? With the round plug there would be no transplant necessary, just a wing trim. Also, do either of you know if OCC wire is used in these? Regards, |
Fleib, I tried to get the 20ss to work on the AT13ea, but the wings would need trimming. I only have one 20ss and have already trimmed the length to fit the Precept. I didn't want to get to where the 20ss stylus would not work on the 20ss cartridge. If I overcome my fear of failure, I will let you know. :) |
Raul, the At20ss stylus will fit the Precept body with a little trimming of the stylus ass. length. It sounds great, just like the 20ss cartridge with the 20ss body. The Audio Technica 20ss and the Precept 220-440 seem to be close or possibly the same. You can cut your 20ss stylus assembly down and see if it is better than your Precept 440, and compare to the At 20ss you own. The At ml160 is at the post office. I will pick it up hopefully tomorrow. I was planning to using it on whatever I own that it fits before any transplanting. |
Maybe AT-cards will be the answer for my prayers..? Could be top of the top... Buying, from ebay this weekend ebay So, will this former top AT be on level with the former top B&O MMC1 and my lovely London Jubilee... I think that the very clever Nandric enlighten about that, please tell about your favorit card..!? Raul, vinyl master, you have said, that the ML180 is near the top of what is porsible - some years ago - is it still that way to day..? I feel something good coming my way - can't wait! -Stoner |
Regards, Acman3, Fleib. Danny: Checked, the Akai RS-180 (AT14Sa) assembly is a drop-in for the AT13Ea. Have been casually seeking an orphaned 14Sa motor for trial with the 13Ea/155Lc stylus upgrade. At 2.7mv output, the 14Sa (Sa = Shibata) should offer slightly more robust response characteristics than the AT15/20 carts with the SS styli. It appears the configuration of the grip, impedance/output and of course the "Super Shibata" as being the currently identifiable differences. Please post your impression of the 160ML stylus, I believe it will work with any of the AT-120/150 series, and any of the later Signets. The ML150-180 OCC carts are not compatible. Fleib-thanks for the impedance/inductance info., an interesting insight. The 13-14Ea/Sa motors are rarely mentioned on this board. Contemporary to their production, these were not considered bottom-of-the-barrel carts. Problem is, don't wish to alter either of my superb ATN20SS assembles and am close to running out of AT155LC styli. Down to my last two NOS examples, which will be retained as replacements for the very listenable TK7LCa. Many would be pleased if AT were to put these back into production! Peace, |
Congrats Stoner for your AT180-ML/OCC, you may have hit the jackpot ! This very special Audio-Technica is from the glorious Golden Age. Raul, Nandric and other fans know... Also my B&O MMC 6000 is from the Golden Age of phono cartridge manufacturing. But unfortunately is not performing it´s best obviously. As a second hand sample you never know whether it has too low hours play (not breaked in yet) or too much play (worn stylus). Anyway the sound is not convincing and has some issues I can´t stand: sibilance and slight distortion in hardest passages. The specs are outstanding though: very thin and 100 % straight on-axis beryllium cantilever with "proto" Line Contact stylus and low tracking force, wide fr etc. After a successful tweak done for my TT just recently I´m getting more interested in upgrading my deck at the moment. |
Dear Lewm: Yes you are right: there are at least two " problems " with the P-mount adaptaers: first is that the cartridge pins connectors does not make the " best " connection with the adapter female connectors and the other is that the adapter build material is a little " resonant ". There are P-mount adapters that are better than the " rule " and one of them is the one that came from Ortofon. In the B&O both " problems " were " solved/improved " and in the SS adapter I think even more. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Acman3 : http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&10825&4#10825 well, maybe I don't go with the 20SS because I own the Precept 440 with original Shibata stylus that's the same in the 20SS, so maybe there is no difference. The Precept 440ML already showed that's superior to the Shibata one and to the 20SS so there is no advantage to do it, at least what I think. I will wait for the 160 when you already test it. Thank you again. regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Stonedagainagain: With out single doubt the AT 180 is top of the top but different performance presentation than the B&O MMC1, both are great performers and the 180 dimish in no way against that B&O. You was " double " lucky to find out that 180 in good condition and at very nice price. Congratulations! Now, you have a first rate " arsenal " with top weapons. regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Aceman3, The 160ML appears to have the same motor as the 440ML, 140LC, 155LC, etc. It's the stylus that should be outstanding. Timeltel, Seems that back in the day before the race to higher output, AT might have actually listened to the carts. The 12S, 12Sa, 14S, 14Sa have motors very similar to Precept 440/550, and AT15/20SS. Any of these oldies with 2.7mV and 500 ohms is right there with the heavy hitters. I'm told that replacement styli for the 14Sa is a mixed bag of nude and bonded. Too bad beryllium/ML is now virtually unobtainium. At one time I had a 152ML stylus and it was awesome. Regards, |
Dear Acman3, For those that do transplants, the ATS14 is still available for $88. This would not be a plug and play because the plug is not in the same position as the AT14S. Watch where the "S" is positioned when you buy these. I does make a difference! I did a stylus transplant from a Akai RS 180 into the Signet TK 7SU housing. Yes, I know the Akai was a plug & play transfer but I wanted to keep the 7SU look to be original, so I did the transplant. This left me with an empty Akai RS 180 housing which is the AT14S housing. I then got the (questionable) brilliant idea that I could regain having a spare RS180/AT14S, if I just do a transplant from a ATS14 into this Akai RS180/AT14S housing. They are the same stylus/cantilever. All transplants went well. So, if a cheap AT14S is what you want and have a suitable stylus housing, do the ATS14 transplant into it. BTW: The ATS14 is the "nude" tip version, not the bonded. And don't be fooled by the statement "Genuine replacement for AT14S" on the listing. The stylus/cantilever are the same, but the location "plug" is in a different location. Regards, Don |
Hi Griffithds, I have seen your praise the London Jubilee more than once in this thread... But is it just "loudness", as some people here pronounce? - I think not! I like that card alot! My english is not god (bad?) and I miss worth to describe... But will YOU give us an little review on this fantastic and verry special cartridge. I think it deserves it! -Stoner |
Thanks all for your excellent help and suggestions! To many great ideas to thank you all individually. You guys are great! Stoner, great find on the At Ml180. I have been looking a long time, and have never even seen a Ml180 until your pictures. Congratulations! Btw, you do just fine with your English. |
Hi Stoner, Yes, when something is capable and does produce greater dynamics, some (even though they say they have never heard one in their system), could call it louder. It's not perfect and careful attention must be paid to set-up and grounding methods, but man does it sing! It just grabs you by the ba*ls and makes you listen. I am not a believer that there is a "best" cartridge but Stoner, when I have this one mounted and dialed in, well, sometimes I question my own beliefs! This thing is absolutely stunning. For you to have gotten one of these jewels for the small sum of money that you paid, well, you are a very lucky man! Congratulations. Regards, Don |
Dear friends/Lewm: As Lewm for years I was reluctant to listen/buy HOMC cartridges. First because Iwas immerse in the LOMC alternative and latter on the MM/MI one. I heard in the past the Ortofon X-5 and the Sumiko Blue Point ( I own both. ) and borrowe by a friend the Sumiko Black bird. Are good performers but nothing to " remember " it. Months/years ( I can't remember when. ) along a tonearm I bought came with ( free. ) a Sony cartridge that I never heard/read about. Things happened that is a HOMC and its performance way different from the cartridges I mentioned before. I never talked of that cartridge because I was more on the MM/MI listening/testing proccess but that Sony HOMC wake up my interest for this alternative and I started to buy some vintage HOMC and one of them is the: Sumiko Talisman Alchemist IIIS. When some one talk about HOMC cartridges one " thing " they talk is that has the characteristics ob both worlds: LOMC and MM/MI, through my experiences that is not true till I heard that Sony and this Talisman one. IMHO the Sumiko Talisman IIIS is a statement of cartridge and has to envy almost nothing to the other two alternatives. This cartridgge was the " baby " of D.Fletcher ( designer too of " The Arm ". ) and I think maybe builded by Scantech or the Transfiguration cartridge source/manufacturer because the Talisman design is yokeless. Its body is machined of solid zinc and tapered to avoid resonances with a golden color. Stylus shape is line contact ( .15x2.2 ) and saphire cantilever. Output: 2.0mv, FR: 10hz to 60khz, channel separation: over 30db, channel balance: 0.5db, compliance: 15cu, VTF 2.3grs and weight: 6.7grs. The frequency response chart shows a flat line from 20hz to 17khz with a +1 db at 20khz. I was very disapointed when I heard the first 15 hours because the sound was close-in and in someway dull. It takes another 15 hours to opened and start to shows its real value. I adjust the VTA/SRA with a minimum of positive angle and mounted in our self tonearm design running at the MM phono stage input. This Talisman is a " rocket " riding the Telarc 1812 and all other LP tracks on my test process. I was surprised by its bass management quality level even better than the Satin M21B LOMC and other top LOMCs and very similar to the Astatic MF-2500 in that regards. I can say that at least with this Talisman we have the very best of both worlds. The detail, the transients, transparency, tight bass, natural music color, dynamic, easy music flow and the sensation that everything is there/right is something to hear. This HOMC alternative is a great one and something that any one of us don't want to lose. It's a great advantage to have that kind of top quality performance level with out need a SUT or MC phono stage but the same we are using for the MM/MI cartridges. You can buy trhough the net: ebay/Agon for very good price and you can look it time to time. It's not hard to find out. Yes, it's at the top of mylist sharing that place with other top " gems ". Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Raul, Stoner and B&O fans, My MMC 6000 is getting better, much better ! I took the extra mass (counterweight, 5.5 grams) away on the end of the Tomahawk wand (analog to headshell of a pivoted arm) and the sound just refined. There´s a bit of sibilance left but not intrusive and distortion is gone. However, the performance is not as refined as with top carts but it has the rhythmic pulse that is music and it´s a great tracker. Due to this, it is hyper sensitive to all kinds of noises born in play. But you soon forget them as music flows. This improvement is due to either the lighter wand or "settling" of the cantilever. Or both at the same time. Anyway, an excellent cart with slight emphasis on the mid. And the cantilever/stylus ass´y is perfectly straight & on-axis, my all other second hand carts have had cantilever issues. Raul, after Axel´s touch my MMC 6000 may very well get even better. Thank you both. |
Dear Raul, The SUMIKO Alchemist III S was tested in HIFI 6-7/1986 with a few other top quality carts. Measured perfect tracking and excellent distortion values, the same level as SHURE´s top dogs. The gear were ORACLE DELPHI MK II, SUMIKO Premier MMT with VTA-16 + PIB-1, LUXMAN C-120 II, YAMAHA M-80 and Hifi 120/12 (magazine´s top speakers at the time). Listening tests confirmed its exellence as a performer. A short video, hope quality is sufficient (can´t make it better): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQedKCPSH1Y |
Harold-not-the-barrel: Thank's for the link. My Talisman following in its quality performance improvement. I was not expecting additional improvements after those 30-40 hours but it's still in that " road ". Of course that my smile is going bigger and almost out of my face. I wonder why Sumiko took a different road ( I think ) with his today cartridges when they already had on hand a superlative performer, yes even better than the LOMC Palo Santos. Same kind of manufacturer behavior happened with Ortofon realted to the MC2000 performer and with some other top cartridge manufacturers. Btw, D.Fletcher said that they choosed a " second generation " of samarium cobalt magnet. I understand almost nothing about and I don't know what that really means because this is the first time I read something like that. Any one of you that can put some " light " in that regards?, appreciated. Dear friends, try to buy this Alchemist IIIS. You can't die with out listening it! Btw, other that that " long " breaking time the cartridge likes that its stylus be perfectly cleaned during playback on each LP. Yes, I know that this fact/characteristic could be the same for any cartridge but the point is that with the Alchemist IIIS that is a must, any single/tiny dust at the tip degraded in heavy way the cartridge performance as I never experienced with any other cartridge. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Raul, I guess it's time for me to revisit the Sumiko Virtuoso DTi that has been in storage since my fork in the road into MM/MI. I believe at $1200 this was Sumiko's TOTL HOMC, though uncertain where it fits in sequence with the Alchemist IIIS. The Virtuoso was my first high-end MC following the Shures and Stantons of the day. It has a diamond plasma coated Ti cantilever. I recall it as an average performer relative to the Scantech AQ7000NSX Fe5(great model designation!) and Lyra Helikon to follow. However, my example has seen lots of use and may be in need of retip. |
Dear Dgarretson: The Talisman Alchemist IIIS born in 1983 and the DTi you own in 1985-6. Yes, the DTi was the top of the Sumiko line but the DTi is a different design than the Alquemist I own. Prices too, the Alquemist was at around 495.00 that's 40% of the DTi retail price. I never heard teh DTi and the only reference I have is that A.Cordesman when reviewed along other MC cartridge he prefered the Alpha Genesis ( I own. ), the Linn Karma and Koetsu red over the DTi. I assume that at that very high price for those times the Dti most be a very good performer. Your today experiences will be appreciated in a post. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear friends: I was comparing the Talisman Alchemist IIIS against the Precept 440 ML, Signet 10MLMK2, Shindo Red Boron, Transfiguration Phoenix and AT ANV50. What I found out is that the Talisman performs different. What mean I with different?, well it has almost all the desired characteristics we are looking for in a cartridge but the " coloration/presentation " is different. We are accustom with different cartridges to found out that between top performers they sounds more alike than different and here even than the Talisman sound is really good it sounds more different than alike. I can't explain in other way. I like this new experience and if you can try to have it. Btw, for those that still like the LOMC alternative that Shindo Red Boron is highly recomend it. As with the MM/MI alternative in the LOMC side exist several vintage gems like this Shindo one. My Shindo sample is the medium output model because exist a higher output too. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |