If we are talking big and powerful, then The Sovereign Audio The Sovereign amplifiers from Germany would probably take the prize. It produces 3KW in 8Ohm and 10KW in 1 Ohm.
It contains three transformers and are made to operate on a 3-phase electrical line of 400V. It will work with only 220V as well and if you put it on a 220V line it is specified to draw a maximum of 100A from your power line. Their weight are 165 kg each. |
BTW, The Levinson NO.53 does not have a digital power supply like it is claimed in the initial post. It has an analog power supply but a switching output stage.
...and both the ML No.33 and No.33H sounds better.
Krell Evolution 600e is nowhere as good as the Evolution One and even farther behind the MRA.
The mentioned McIntosh model is not in the same league as the Mc2KW. |
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I would disagree with you Audiofeil.
I think the post has gone well.
I think the participants have shown they are very intelligent. They have contributed much.
You have pictures of Pass Labs on your site. Why dont you comment on them?
It would be nice to hear something positive out of you for a change. |
In that case, count my vote for hanging chad. |
I am no discriminator of Origins. All of our contendors are sure to have a little China in them anyway. |
This is another "Which is best..." threads.
To be 'king", they have to hurt just to think about either lifting or affording. A king has power, wealth and prestige. Wisdom and sainthood are not prerequisites.
The MBL's at 200 lbs and $50,000 each seem to qualify for some kind of European royalty. Are we supposed to be electing a North American king?
"He must be a king."
"Why?"
"He hasn't got shit all over him."
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
Don't forget about Spectron Musician sometimes way overlooked because they sell direct their amplifiers are not only exceptional sounding especially if you get the Bybee s
and the new Copper Teflon bypass caps to go along with 100 small caps per amp . In the Monoblock mode these amps can hold 7,000 watts for a Full 1/2 second, Not one of the others listed can even come close and well over 1500wpc into a 2 ohm load Cleanly !! |
Stupid, yeah, but crowning a king is at least more fun and a slightly different spin than the typical "what's the best" type threads? |
Don't worry Mapman, I will not press, You are right. One day, when I was selling Pass X 600 amps a serious buyer came to listen with his wife. He was in love with the amps for there size, blue light and visual grandeur. I sold the amps for a thousand more than he could pay. I invited him over to hear the difference with my little new amp. He declined, saying he was only interested in the Pass. Sound had little to do with it. |
Murlman1,
I know where your headed with that observation, but the stereotypical concept of a king implies grandeur, splendor, and in-your face excess.
Not sure Class D amps,whatever their benefits, need apply. They are in many regards the exact opposites.
So Class D owners can hope to be deemed worthy of Duke or Knight status perhaps but may at best be perceived as only "jacks" or "knaves" by some in the royal scheme of things. |
Super size does not necessarily mean better. |
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Are we judging the King by power or benevolence? |
Sanders Sound Systems Magtech Monoblock: 1600 watts into 8 ohms and 2000 watts into 4 ohms. |
Gryphon Colosseum's Solos or the Antileon Signature mono's, Boulder 2050's, Soulutions, Vitus, Goldmunds, Wavac 833's, Pass XA200.5's (only those), TAD M600's, Krell EVO 2's.
I think this is the direction you should look if you are really looking for the "King of Mono's" with no price tag limitations. |
What about the Spectron Mono amps? Running in bridged mode they produce around 1800 watts. I am quite happy with my pair. I have not heard a lot of the other amps listed but I went through several different amps before I settled into the Spectrons. I don't think they are the best but they are better than some of the ones being talked about here. |
Really, guys? Such silly chump-change power ratings in mere hundreds of watts. REAL audio-frequency power-amps are found as the modulators in plate-modulated AM/SSB transmitters. A modern solid-state example: http://www.contelec.com/SSM.html |
Mman,
perhaps.
I do expect the cost of Class D to continue to go down or stay stable still and the technology itself to still continue to approve, so $3000 may be able to buy even more down the road.
I suppose China and other emerging economies are still good for helping keep costs of more vintage technologies like tube amplification down as well. |
Mapman, It gets better than that. You will find better does not always mean expensive. Cabling should be cheap. My source gets more expensive, on the other hand. With no other amp have I found the old dictum, "Crap in crap out," so true. |
I have not seen that many bottles in one place since my kids were babies! |
Atmasphere, and into low impedances too. Truly impressive. Even without ever hearing them I feel the need to offer a: Bravo! Following the old addage, I won't even dare to ask the price. |
12-08-10: Mapman
Atmasphere,
I hail those as worthy of a king for sure!
Who/what can top that? I third that! Awesome!!! Best regards, -- Al |
Speaking as a relative peasant, I dropped over $3000 on a pair of Class D Icepower mono blocks recently.
It's about as close to being a king in regards to my amplifiers that I suspect I may ever become.
Class D is a fantastic technology that puts great sound within reach for many of us relative peasants! |
Atmasphere, I'm at lost for words.
Congrats!
Bravo and two thumbs up to you and others whom push the envelope in design, it's pretty amazing.
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Atmasphere,
I hail those as worthy of a king for sure!
Who/what can top that? |
Dev, the MA-3 has 42 power tubes in each channel. Since they are dual triode tubes, that's 84 tube sections.
The amp has built-in automated bias and DC Offset control (the tubes are directly-connected to the speaker outputs), built-in AC line regulation so even if your AC line drops to 100V it can still make full power. Most of the amps listed so far will be making a small fraction of their rated power if the AC line drops which it will in the presence of a large power amplifier!
Since there are so many tubes, several considerations are made to make it easy to live with. A tube tester is built-in and can be operated on-the-fly. The tubes are also bank-switchable, so if you don't need all that power on a particular day, you can operate 1/3 or 2/3 of the power tubes instead, having the rest turned completely off.
Balanced or single-ended inputs are accepted and there are two speaker terminals. Separate meters allow you to monitor the AC line voltage, the output of the AC line regulator, the output power of the amplifier and the condition of the tubes.
The amplifier is hand-wired, I suspect one of the very few in the 'list' so far where that is the case. There is only one stage of gain in the amp, giving it the simplest signal path of any high-powered amplifier. Since it is Output TransformerLess, it is also very fast which belies its high power output- the amp is sonically very nimble. All the wire, all the resistors and the coupling caps are custom-built. The power supply stores about 1/4 of a Farad per channel. |
Also add, YBA Passion 1000 mono's, Jeff Rowland 7 and 9 mono's, Denon POA S1 mono's, Lamm 2.2 mono's. |
Of course, the King of Monos is.......the BAT REX amplifier....:) |
I have no problem adding amps to the list. <1000 watts. at least 500. I will do a 1000 or more next.
I have had two votes to remove the Pass Labs. I need elimination votes. Once we get down to top 3 we can debate the King.
Look at list. Tell me who is the worst and why. I will update as eliminations occur. |
Musical Fidelity Titan?
MBL 9011 - Darn, only 440W
Goldmund Telos 5000, 2500, 1000, 350
FM Acoustics FM 711-mkII, FM 1811 |
How about the VTL Siegfrieds or the old 1250W Wotans?
Plinius SA-Ref in bridged mode (1000W @ 8 ohms)
Chord SPM 14000 ($75,000/pair)
Clayton Audio M2000
Boulder 2050's
Edge NL Reference ($140,000) Certainly the most unusual looking.
Ayre MXR's might be shy of 500W but should not be neglected. |
I personally can't wait to hear these
http://www.vac-amps.com/Statement_450.htm |
Atmasphere, those are some crazy ass tube amps, how many tubes? |
That is great. So you think the Pass should stay in the running? Is the sound on par with the rest? If you own one I would love to hear what you think.
I called to try to find a dealer so I could schedule a listen. I got no response. I left a message and no response. Same with email. Maybe they were on vacation or something. I will try again soon. |
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Whoa there podner! Wait just a gol' durn minute about the Pass Labs customer service. I've called there a few times over the years and got nothing but stellar service from Pass. Once I called to buy a power cord for my amp, they sent me one for free. Once I called with a question about my amp, and they guy stayed on the phone with me for about 15 minutes patiently answering questions. I thanked the guy for his time and I asked him what his name was, he said "Nelson Pass".
. |
I have been getting some nasty comments about Pass. I know they are a little questionable on service too.
I will look at some of these others and maybe add them to the list. Im trying to stay under 1000 watts for this one.
I like Omegas. I will check their wattage and maybe add them.
Im also hearing some concerns over fans. I tend to agree that having a fan is a point of failure. They go bad in PCs all the time. It would really suck having to move a 150lb amp back and forth to get a fan replaced. |
Paimei.
I had the original Pass X600 monos from about 1999. I thought they were somewhat cold and unmusical and that did not seam to change with time. Some say these amps are warm? They did have lots of detail or was it just lots of brightness. They also had a nasty habbit with turn on and off thumps. Something that scares me and something $17K amps should not do. (do Pass use any protection at all?), They did eventually ruin a spekers voice coil.
It would be interesting to hear some of the big monos from MBL, Griffon, Symphonic Line, FM Acoustics, Goldmond, even Classe Audio has the big Omegas. I bet very few people have spent any time with any of these (me included).
I bet a much smaller tube amp would proove to be better sounding at a fraction of the price. |
We can do Tubes Versus SS after we pick a winner from this group. OK? I will even ask you guys what tube amps you want on the list before proceeding.
I think most of the Tube units that would compete would probably be Hybrid? Or am I wrong? |
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Bryston 28BSST2 added. They are sweet. I should not have neglected them on the original lineup. Now. Why do you feel they better than the rest? Thanx. |
Bryston 28B-SST2. The Kings....I had to relocate them this weekend because we are re-carpeting..man, these thinks are monsters! After a long search for new, long term, amps these mono-blocks these were my pick... |
6550c, Why did you not like your pass? Reviewers are giggly all day long for Pass. Can you compare it to any on the list? Thanx.
Also, This is a Solid State comparison. Im trying to stay in the 500 watt range so the Wyred doesnt get eliminated from the beginning. I should have mentioned that. I will do a >1000 comparison later. Thanx. |
I can add players. Email them to me. Trying to stay in the 500-1000 watt range for this one. |
Hate to say it but I don't think your list even makes the top 10. |
The Pass X600.5 is not the top - they also have the X1000.5. Have they sold any , that I don't know.
I did own the X600 and was not pleased. |
If you're talking Pass Labs, what about the XA200.5? I'd throw ARC 610 into the mix. There are also the VTL, Solution etc. High power, low power, SS, tubes?Speaker and room have more to do with selection than anything else, IMO. |
Maybe we should do this using the process of elimination.
I will take 10 votes for the weakest amp of the list. After each unit receives 10 votes as being the weakest it will be eliminated. Only one vote will be counted from each email address. I will progressively update the thread. Once we have top 3 we can debate who gets the Crown.
Send your weakest Mono vote to nichtzergoot@gmail.com |
Danielk141.
You are right. Synergy is Important. I understand this well. I hate B&w speakers on Adcom. Love them through Mac. For this kind of comparison try to be imaginative. Each of these amps deserves its finest counterparts. So consider that the amp being discussed is in its ideal habitat. Which one will then have the most potential? |
Stanwal, If your name isnt Mark Levinson or Nelson Pass you cant even be the Prince of Monos. |
