Paimei: Synergy is often a term used when someone applies a bandaid in a system to compensate for a flaw elsewhere. The importance of the amp/speaker interface is not so much about synergy but rather, compatibility.
And again, contrary to the comments of one amp to suit all speakers, it's just plain silly. For Sound Lab electrostatics, I don't want any other amp than the ones I own. If I was to change to high-efficiency horn speakers or a biamped system, I would surely choose an entirely different amp. But compared to so many of the "high powered" tube amps out there with their crappy little output transformers, I will stay with the "lower powered" CAT. |
Equally crappy? This is not about sharing opinons anymore is it? Yes, equally crappy. That's my opinion having listened to both Bose and Revel speakers. I think they both suck. If you don't like that opinion, too bad. And if you dismiss my opinion that Revel speakers are crap, just think what a Bose-lover must think of Paimei's opinion that Bose speakers are unworthy. Are you starting to comprehend how this works? The seriousness of such a statement is so low there is no need to comment. And yet you did! |
Equally crappy? This is not about sharing opinons anymore is it? The seriousness of such a statement is so low there is no need to comment? |
A Bose speaker is never going to sound like a Revel speaker. Maybe to your ears. But they both sound equally crappy to me. And therein lies the proof of the pointlessness of this thread. |
Of course speaker compatibility, room, preamp, source components and even cables have to be taken into consideration when choosing which amplifier to buy which also has to match personal taste.
That however is very different from comparing amplifiers against each other trying to find out which is best.
Are you guys saying that Stereophiles Recomended Components list and TAS Golden Ear Awards are dumb and not worth reading?
I would guess these lists are the most used shopping guides for audiophiles and by that useful even though the evaluation behind the products ln these lists does not take into account your personal context and the buyer has to add that too his/her own evaluation. |
Jafox. And others. Look, we understand here that synergy is of absolute importance. Combine an amp that doesnt mate well with a B&W. The B&W will slap you with ugliness. Match the B&W with the right amp and it will reward you with tasty goodness. I think a Yamaha has less potential than any amp in this group. It is likely to sound electronic, harsh, bright, and fatiguing. You can pair it with a dull speaker to take the edge off yes. It will still never rule a better amplifier. This is my opinion. Please refrain from H8 mail. A Bose speaker is never going to sound like a Revel speaker. Some things are simply better than others. Some designs are superior. Some inferior.
If you consider the amps potential, some here will have less than others. I dont care what you mate them with. Conisider this. Which amp is going to sound best on the broadest range of speakers? Some are more forgiving than others. Which amplifier possesses the most likeable traits overall? Which amps possess the most problems or weaknesses? Eliminating the weakest amps will point to the strongest. Comparisons can be made.
Some negative comments have been posted and emailed to me about 1st generation Pass. Glowing comments about the .5 series. We all learned right there that 2nd Gen Pass is likely preferable. Im glad that knowledge came to the surface. Im sure if we open our minds similar info can be revealed about the other amplifiers in this group. Im considering a Mcintosh 501 and a W4S mono. I would love to hear more compliments and criticisms about each of those. I love comparisons.
I respect the knowledge and experience of this group. This is the ideal place for the analysis of these amplifiers.
At the end of the day people get to tell us which amps they like, which amps they dont, and give an explanation why. A compass to find which amplifiers will best suit our individual needs and preferences.
I want to know what listeners prefer. I think it is safe to say that the MOST PREFERRED AMP is a KING. |
The OP stated it several times, the first of which was in his first post on 12/6. The stated requirement was 500 to 1000 watts, with those greater than 1000 watts to be done later. I am waiting with much anticipation as this current thread has been so scintillating, the follow up is bound to be beyond words. I agree with all who state that the amp and speaker are inseparable when evaluating either. To place power restrictions on the amps and then disregard the speaker interface make this thread dumb, as has already been stated. None of this takes into account how the preamp and amp interact. Power of the amp is not the only factor to it producing great sound. I believe Bombaywalla said it best in this thread. BTW, I was always kind of partial to Johnny Carson. |
Well,
Can you point out exactly what post in this thread where it is stated that rated output power is the measurement use to determine the answer to the initial post?
However since we are talking about amplifiers, its quality is related to power as well as distortion and noise.
It is also not quite as simple as the previous poster described because when you decide to upgrade by changing the speakers, it would be great not having to change the amplifier too. By choosing an amplifier able to drive anything the first time you do an amplifier investement, you will not be forced to change the amplifier every time you change speakers.
Objectively the measuring stick for the best amplifier would be the one with lowest noise and distortion which is powerful enough to drive any speaker. The subjective measuring stick but you need to replace the lowest noise distortion with subjective sound quality.
To be able to drive any speaker requires power. So that power is part of what makes the best amplifier should not be a surprise to anyone. |
Paimei, I am not "with" Audiofeil at any time. However, he has far more knowledge and experience in this field than you realize. He just happens to have a low tolerance of nonsense here and his posts often reflect this.
There is no way any amp can be considered to be the top performer in any regard. It has EVERYTHING to do with the speaker to be driven. We choose a speaker that we like, that integrates well with our listening room, and then we find an amplifier that is capable of driving that speaker to its performance level.
A watts-per-channel rating often has little to do with an amp's performance. I have owned the Convergent Audio Technology (CAT) JL-3 mono amps for 6 years this month. With 16 power tubes (6550 or KT88) per mono block, it is conservatively rated at 150 w Class A. But don't let the "low" power rating fool you. It can quite significantly outperform many much higher rated amps into some speakers. Just look at the whimpy output transformers on many of these highly touted amps in this thread and compare to the CAT.
With some of these "top rated" amps, go listen to some seriously complex music with a lot of bass content at high volume. During this time, pay close attention to how the rest of the music in the mids and upper octaves maintains its integrity. With many amps, the music will crumble because the amp's power supply and output transformer can not handle the load for any given amount of time. You might be surprised that often times, the higher-rated mono-block beast-of-an-amp is not the "best" performer here. And this is one example as to why this thread is stupid as Audiofeil pointed out early on. |
It's not a stupid post! But it does beg the question, if there is a king, is there an emperor of the monos? Is there a benevolent first comrade of the monos? Is there a Godfather of the monos? (Is there a Fredo of the monos?) Ultimately is there a god of the monos? There might be a supreme mono deity to which all monos everywhere worship. If a simple question can lead to such string of probing, provocative and profound other questions, then how could it possibly be stupid? |
I bet you are with Audiofeil right now. |
.....but you can't make him drink. From so many lame responses here, I'd say many here have already had too much to drink. I'm with Audiofeil on this one.....STUPID THREAD! |
You can lead the horse to the water, but you can't make him drink. |
Now those are some nice suggestions. Kharma speakers look nice too. Very nice.
Its amazing what comes to surface when the negative Nancys get out of the way.
Subjective Q or not, It is easy to determine who the kings are when people decide who the kings should not be. |
I'm puzzled why the King must unleash more than 500 but less than 1000 Watts (measured how?) and even more why it must be solid state. But as it went with Kings, with the possible exception of the first four Caliphs, they either bullied themselves in (and you can have many of those at the same time) or a very select electorate of king-makers has defined the rules (and thus exclude whatever they exclude for whatever reason).
Oh well, under those circumstances here are a few Kings
AMP Mono MkII (AVM) King into 8 Ohms with Electrocompaniet Nemo as Antiking perhaps
Kharma Exquisite M 1000 King into 4 Ohms
Tidal Impact Mono King into 2 Ohms (now, if I were the Pope, I'd elect this king to be the Emperor) |
Abbey Road or Charlton Heston.
Can't make up my mind. |
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I'll make it simple ... any mono can be KING of mono in the RIGHT system. Same for preamps, speakers ... so this thread is useless. |
I am sure the wording "King og minos" was chosen partly to provlke attention in order to get respones and by that to get more opinions and a wider discussion with more opinions about more products to get more information for the search for threadstarters personal king of monos for his own context.
So why not contribute your own experiences rather than unconstructive negativity. |
My issue is not about discussing high performance pieces at all, but the way some people get into the whole idea of something being the "best". I see too many people making bad choices because they are choosing components that they've heard are the best at a particular price and don't have the knowledge to understand what might work with their other components, their room, their listening preferences, etc. Threads like this can be beneficial at times, but they also can be damaging too. More than anything, I'm really just taking issue with the wording "King of Monos". This doesn't really serve a purpose IMHO. However, I'm sure the original poster used this primarily to try and get more attention to the thread.
However, without any system context, I'll then nominate the Chapter Audio Couplet 500M mono amp being the King of Monos. Yes, I sell them, so that will be my preference. But, does that really help anyone? Not trying to be negative, but the list of potential "Kings" could be endless, but really should be none. There are lots of great amps mentioned, but none are "King" or "Best". |
Sorry for my bad English. I am not an English natural. That does not stop me from coming with s hesrtfelt plea. Don't kill enthusiasm from fellow audiophiles by comments like dumb/stupid about someones question or opinion.
We are not all the same and in order to not kill off this hobby which is getting smaller in numbers every day, please be more including than shown here no matter how much you feel your image will grow if you can stamp someone elses opinion or post as unintelligent.
Thanks |
I'm glad. You really should have been silent from the start. |
Then congratulations to you on your acheivement. I am truly impressed by your intelectual capacity. I'm left speachless. |
Really? Then congratulations to you on your acheivement. I am truly impressed by your intelectual capacity. |
and who has ever claimed this thread is awsome? Is your repsonse "awsome" too or dumb? I leave that to you. But I du no how dum yor respons waz. |
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Why not? ... and who has ever claimed this thread is awsome? Is your repsonse "awsome" too or dumb? |
This thread is awesome. Maybe, for your next one, you could ask "Which is the KING of PRIMARY COLORS"? |
When somebody claims a thread is dumb when they simply could have ignored the thread alltogether shows a need to make themselves noticed which is quite unconstructive or dumb if you will. |
Nobody as far as I can see have claimed there is one mono amp which is best in all contexts. In my opinion it is pretty dumb not to see that this thread shows so many contenders and candidates to such a title that only personal evaluation in given context can decide what each individual consider the best mono amp out there.
This thread is however a good place to start if you are looking for "the best" because you can draw on other peoples experience and use that as a base for your quest to what is best for you in your situation |
Agree with Audiofeil and AudioBombaywalla ... dumb thread! |
The question may be somewhat subjective. However, these amps all have individual traits whether they be positive or negative. They have features and qualities that set them apart from one another. Im sorry to have offended any lack of imagination.
This is a thread that has drawn great comparisons between many great products. It has also presented many products to consider that most had no prior knowledge of. This thread has drawn from the knowledge of the entire Agon community. Aside from the few that have nothing to offer but snide comments I think it have been not only intelligent it has been fantastic.
Mission accomplished. |
This is very much like the thread "Best Integrated Amp PERIOD". There isn't one. There hasn't been one. There never will be one. Likewise, there isn't a King of Monos. If given context for a particular situation, there could be some very good suggestions, but there will never be a "King" or "Best". |
Nothing dumb about this thread or the participants.
More goodies get added every day.
Hear that Audiofeil? I'm afraid that I have to agree with Audiofeil - it's a blatantly dumb & idiotic question to ask. Not going to comment on the quality of the participants as I see several names that have contributed positively in many other threads. Basically, you cannot ask "who is the king of monos?" WITHOUT giving a context. For example, if you own very eff speakers (like horns or Audionote), you could buy the smallish Monarchy Audio SM70 monos & be in 7th heaven. No need to buy an MBL 1200W/ch beast for such type of speakers. OTOH, if you have those MBL Radialstrahlers, then, an MBL 1200W/ch mono would be the king. Merely citing a big mono for its size/grandeur has no meaning & that's why this thread is a dumb thread..... |
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In the list, 'Atma-Sphere' is misspelled. |
It does not possess the intelligence of your "How Phil Collins rose to stardom" but the IQ is still high.
I so wish we could be friendly. |
>>12-12-10: Paimei
Hear that Audiofeil?<<
Loud and clear Sparky.
It's still a dumb thread.
Do you hear ME? |
Nothing dumb about this thread or the participants.
More goodies get added every day.
Hear that Audiofeil? |
The soon to be released 1400 watts continuous in 8 ohms Hegel H30. I have the Hegel H10 now, and am holding my breath to be a new H30 pappa! |
Sure, that was just names that quickly came to me. More names should be added to make the list complete. Here are some:
Pass Labs X-10005
Octave Research Jubilee Mono Amplifiers
Horch Power Stage
Zanden Audio Model 9600
EAR M-1000A
Theta Citadel
Classe Omega
Wadia 790 PowerDAC
BAlabo, Audio Tekne, Vitus Audio, Ayre, Chord, Tenor Audios top models should also but I don't remember their model indication. |
Roysen,
Admittedly I am biased, but you don't think any design from Nelson Pass is worth of inclusion? |
A list of contenders:
Goldmund Telos 5000
FM Acoustics Resolution Series 2011
Sovereign Audio The Sovereign
Dynaudio Arbiter
Krell Master Reference Amplifiers
Mark Levinson No.33 Reference Monaural Amplifiers
Burmester 909 Mk.V (Internally mono bridged)
darTZeel NHB-458
Soulution Audio 700
Gryphon Audio Colosseum Solo
Jeff Rowland Design Group Model 925
Edge NL Reference Mono Amplifiers
GamuT Audio S600M Mk.III
Halcro dm88
Spectral Audio DMA-360 Reference Monaural Amplifiers Series 2
Audire The New Monarch
McIntosh Mc2KW
Boulder 2050
MBL 9011
Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR-800
Jadis JA-800
Arna-Sphere MA-3
Conrad Johnson ART
VTL Siegfried
Audio Research Reference 610T
Wavac SH-833
Kondo Gaku-On Mk.II
LAMM Industries ML-3 Signature
Convergent Audio Technologies JL-1 Limited Edition
Joule Electra VZN-350 Destiny
Shoreline 800
Ypsilon SET-1000
Pathos Acoustics Adrenaline |
Audio Research REF VT 600 mono's.
Boulder 2050 monoblock amplifiers.
Halcro DM88 amps. |
Considering this a dumb thread there's lots of interest. |
In tube land definately the TRL G.T.-800 monos. |
Thanx for the info on the Pass. Ill consider it a vote to keep it in the mix.
I think the Bryston amps have also smoothed out. The SST2 is supposed to be a lot more pleasing than the originals. |
The Pass X600 and the X600.5 are two different generations of Amps and sound very different. I believe some of the negative posted comments about the Pass Amp is based on the older X600 version.
The X600 was a more harder sterile sounding Amp.
It was replaced by the X600.5 series. The X600.5 series are known for a warmer tube sounding sounding Amp.
Also, my experience with Pass Lass has always been great! Someone always answers the phone and has been very helpful. |
When it comes to tube amplifiers my pick would be the Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR-800s that Gallant_Diva on this forum is using. 800W, four chassis (amp and power supply for each channel), 24 tubes each chassis. |
