Who has Luv for the Lyngdorf 2170 and is thinking about the 3400.

@recroom The Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 is better beyond the extra power in added features that you may or may not care about, but my speakers are 96db and I bought the 3400. I couldn’t be happier. Call Neal at Sound Science and tell him Jonathan Carcopo sent you. You’ll get taken care of.

I received my TDAI 3400 and just spent the past hour setting it up. I still have a lot to learn, but I did manage to get to 98 percent room correction through Room Perfect, and it did make a very noticeable difference.

There is no way I will be making any definitive comments on the sound compared to the defending champions in my system, the formidable Line Magnetic 508ia integrated and Lampizator Atlantic DAC, both of which it would replace if I keep it. But I will say this much. This thing is a delight to use and based on a very early impression, this is going to be some battle!

Agree with jcarcopo regarding Neal at Sound Science. He spent 45 minutes last Saturday talking with me about the Lyngdorf. I placed my order on Monday, and the unit arrived today from Denmark. Top notch service in every respect.

@waltersalas Glad you got your unit all setup! 

@recroom 

The 2170 will have more than enough power for your speakers.  No worries.  I purchased my server and 2170 from Neal and have long praised his service here on the Gon.  Very helpful to me over the years. 

@waltersalas 

Keep that unit fully on and not just standby when not in use.  Big difference after 12 hours of being on. Happy for you.  

We miss you @kdude66 !

@grannyring 

Will do. I left it playing for a couple of hours while I was out, and for some reason it turned itself off. Might be something in the settings. I have a lot to learn, and look forward to getting very well-acquainted with this unit.

Yes in the settings you’ll have to choose for it to not going to automatic standby.

Thanks, Bill. I am still learning to navigate the settings. Really liking the sound so far.

I ran my 2170 with Living Voice OBX RW speakers and the combo worked very well. Great sound at lower to moderate SPLs.  Wonderful imaging, intimacy and overall musicality in my room.  

I have Tekton Ulfberhts. There aren't many speakers more efficient than those. The 2170 is stunning with them at low gain. The sound never really changes across the output levels. Which I assume is the characteristic you're most interested in. But the 2170 will drive you out of the room at anything approaching -10. One day I'm going to push it to Zero just to say I've been there. Sort of like top-ending your sports car on an empty highway somewhere. ;-)

I put my 3400 up for sale (along with my Coincident SEIIIs) if anyone is interested... 

Cal3713,
The Lyngdorf and Coincident speakers seems like it’d be a very good match. What combination will replace it? I don’t believe that you’ll have trouble selling either item, especially the popular Lyngdorf 3400..
Charles

@charles1dad   Hi Charles, I still have my Coincident PREs... I just came to the conclusion that they prefer tubes (at least up top for the tweeter & midrange).  Perhaps not surprising given that Isreal doesn't make any SS amps.  I tried bi-amping with the 3400 on the bass units, but couldn't quite get the two amps to sound coherent together.  Going to check out Atma-Sphere M-60s next I think... 

Hello Cal,
I believe that the Coincident Dragons mono blocks or the Atma-sphere mono blocks would mate very well with the Pure Reference Extreme speakers. My experience with Atma-sphere amplifiers leads me to expect them to be a ’tad ’ leaner (relatively speaking) than the 211 based Dragons yet overall quite good (and they’re less expensive). All things considered I believe you’re on the right track.

I’m a little surprised that with room correction implemented you couldn’t get the Lyngdorf to work to your satisfaction with your very high resolution/transparent speakers. Both of these products are placed in the neutral camp by those familiar with them. So you’d expect an excellent pairing (at least in theory. Cal did this pairing sound thinner/leaner in the crucial midrange ?

Charles

I just got my 3400 delivered. Sounds great out of the box, although not as good as the used 2170 I got a home demo for (guessing it needs to be broken in).

At some point will compare them to my Coincident Frankensteins Mk2. (Cal, like @charles1dad, I would love to hear more about your 3400 experience).

Meanwhile can some tell me how long is the break in time for the 3400s (or your 2170s that you own).

@ essrand

Congratulation on getting Lyngdorf 3400!

I will appreciate very much if you could compare the sound of it with DAC you have.

Recently, the price of good Dac is going up without bound.

Thus 6500$ is not much if it can compete with high quality Dac.

Thomas

@essrand Sorry for the delayed feedback regarding the Lyngdorf.  Although I didn't think the unit sounded bad, I eventually came to the conclusion that all of the reasons I liked the unit were really just about convenience.  I loved streaming Tidal to the unit and controlling it from any computer/smartphone/tablet.  Super convenient.  Unfortunately I just couldn't get it to sound right for me.  It sounded smooth and easy with great bass, but gave up body, texture, and realness to the Frankensteins. 

With my speakers and in my room, I also had two other issues that seem pretty inconsistent with everyone else's opinions. 

First, it did not image as cleanly as the Frankensteins.  I was having trouble dialing in my speakers, just kind of fumbling around to get them setup to center the image/soundstage (note that I just pulled my PREs out of storage in August).  When I switched to the Frankensteins, I was able to instantly set everything up appropriately.  Every 1 cm movement was so clearly reflected by a change in the sound that I could much more easily figure out where the speakers needed to be.

Second, for whatever reason, my speakers just didn't like the digital processing.  Every time I turned off a processing feature, I could hear myself get close to the music.  This included the digital limiter, ICC (added headroom to prevent clipping), and - surprisingly - room perfect.  I don't know if I set it up incorrectly (or if it was because I was limping along with a less than ideal cabling situation - I forced to use some cheap old MITs that I'd repaired myself), but room perfect was just twisting the music for me.  It nicely centered the image and increased the fullness of the sound, but was doing something to the phasing (across the frequency band) that just wasn't right.  I could feel my body relax when I turned it off.  Once I got the speakers more appropriately setup with the frankensteins, I did discover that my natural image was kind of left of center, so maybe that and my slightly broken wires together just prevented room perfect from working correctly. 

Anyway, as I stated earlier, I eventually just came to the conclusion that the Coincident speakers were designed to work a simple tube circuit and that they don't respond well to digital and solid state amplification.  Or alternatively, that they just respond really well to amplifiers made by Coincident.  As you can see in another thread of mine, they also beat out the Atma-sphere M-60s (again in the domain of body, texture, and realism)...

@shkong788 I did try the unit simply as a DAC (in lieu of my PS Audio PWD).  Again, it excelled in smoothness, bass, and reliability (streaming just always worked right).  I felt, however, that the PWD had a fuller sound with better body.  To steal words from Charles, it was just more natural.  I absolutely agree with Charles that that's the key attribute on which to judge components.  The more natural it sounds, the more easily it pulls out emotions, at least in my experience.

I'll also say that a couple years ago I tried to upgrade my DAC to PS Audio's Directstream and actually ended up going back to the PWD.  The Direcstream had more detail, but again, the music just didn't sound as real. 

Also, just FYI, on the Lyngdorf, all my critical listening was over the ethernet input.

@essrand Unfortunately I can't comment on break-in.  I didn't have my stereo over the past year and had been using the Lyngdorf on some $100 klipsh desktop speakers for about 4 months before finally getting it into the real system this August.  So it was fully broken in by that time...

I'm not going to lie.  I've been listening more and more to my Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 and less and less to my Art Audio Diavolo 300b SET amplifier!  Maybe I'm too lazy to power up my tube amplifier and turn a knob on my Luxman AS-55 amplifier switcher, but I find the Lyngdorf sounds unlike any solid-state amplifier I've ever heard on my Tekton Design Encore speakers.  It's very neutral, natural, detailed, but not overbearingly so, and with Room Perfect properly setup the sound improvements between using it or bypassing it can't be overstated.  It's just sounds so right to me and just as, and at times even more, emotionally engaging than my tube amp; especially on larger music pieces that appreciate the extra power output that the Lyngdorf affords me.  

It's also an absolute joy to use.  You can open Spotify or Roon/Tidal on your phone, cue a piece of music and the Lyngdorf will wake up from standby, change to the appropriate input and begin playing music immediately.  I also love the WebGUI interface which makes setting it up fast and painless. The dedicated Android App is so polished, well thought out, and executed flawlessly. 

I have been touting the greatness of Steinway Lyngdorf Room Correction for several years now . People just tend not to believe how good it really is .Most won't believe it until they hear it. But, the biggest  problem is .....convincing them to try it ! All other room correction pales in comparison.

The above dialogue illustrates the beauty of an open audio forum. Cal3713 (Chris) and Jcarcopo (Jonathan) are both experienced and respected posters who express themselves quite well. I do not find it surprising that they respectively have come to different outcomes regarding the Lyngdorf versus their SET amplifiers.

Different ears, taste, desires and systems will result in varying preferences in such an intrinsic subjective undertaking as listening to music via electronic devices/audio components. The inevitability of different outcomes just makes perfect sense to me.

I haven’t the slightest doubt that Chris and Jonathan are very satisfied with their individual choices. In all my years of High End audio involment I can’t recall a single audio product that has ever received 100% consensus as the’best’ regardless of price or pedigree. Too many variables exist.
Charles

Maybe there is some special synergy with the Lyngdorf and Tekton Encores--I think there are at least three of us now running the combo with overwhelmingly satisfactory results--but the one thing that this discussion demonstrates (as has been demonstrated in so many of these threads over the years) is that there is just no substitute for trying something in your own system.

I do not doubt for one moment cal3717's impressions of the Lyngdorf in his system. To be completely candid, I had concerns about getting exactly the kind of sound he is describing when I dropped the TDAI-3400 in my system in place of my much-loved Line Magnetic 508ia integrated. After all, I have been down this road before when I replaced some very nice VAC Renaissance separates with a Devialet D200--and eventually came to the same conclusion that cal3717 came to with the Lyngdorf--not so much the phasing issues, as the lack of texture and body in the music. It sounded "good," but just not as engaging or alive. I chalked it up to my apparent preference for tubes, sold the Devialet, and rebuilt my system.

I was perfectly happy with my LM 508ia, but when I upgraded my speakers to the Tekton Encores, I wanted to see what room correction and more muscle could do--and, of course, I was curious about the enthusiastic reviews for the Lyngdorf. 

Once I received it, I was impressed right away, but also missed the "goosebump factor" that a good SET amp brings. However, I also felt that with the room correction, I was getting the fullest, most complete, and most authentic sound I had ever had in my room. With time, it has only improved. Believe me, I have been hyper-vigilant about whether the music sounds natural to me with the Lyngdorf. It does.

I think there is no getting around trade-offs with any kind of high end gear. The Lyngdorf is not a tube amp and doesn't sound one, though I have been very pleasantly surprised how holographic and natural it sounds. It does not, however, sound like a good SET amp in the mids. On the other hand, it compensates in my system with a fuller sound top to bottom, while also sounding "right" with any music I throw its way. In its way, it is just as beguiling as any tube amp I have owned.

Take-away number one: the only way to know is to try it in your own system.

Take-away number two: I guess I will be selling my Line Magnetic 508ia, and whoever gets it will get one honey of an integrated amplifier!

Hi Waltersalas,
 I completely agree in regard to actually hearing a component in your own audio system.  Chris and Jonathan both did this and it adds notable value to their comments. BTW congratulations on your very successful outcome.
Charles 

This is such an interesting and meaningful discussion to me as like many here I love my Tektons with my 300B SET.........but I'm also curious as to whether I could obtain more dynamic slam than my SET provides while maintaining a good portion of the SET's midrange magic that can be so mesmerizing. I'm seriously considering giving the LTA microZOTL preamp and Ultralinear amp a try and the Lyngdorf 3400 keeps intriguing me also. The only way I'll be able to have some audio peace of mind is to try them both......... thankfully they both have 30 day trial periods. I could easily see myself settling on my 300B but I need to remove this nagging question of how these other amps might sound in my system. 

Kudos to everyone here for sharing your experiences so eloquently and without the biased animosity that pervades so many threads. As Charles stated this dialogue really does illustrate the beauty of an open audio forum. 

Tom

Totally agree... a great thread with lots and lots of information.  I can't remember if it was this one or the Tekton DI thread, but the Dueland speaker wire recommendations (from @grannyring ) totally transformed my experience with my Coincident combo.  I might be trying to sell the entire system if I hadn't put that in.  And I think it's still getting better every day (just two weeks in)...  

Thanks for sharing your experiences folks.

- Chris

@cal3713 I also find my system sounds better with no room processing in the Lyngdorf. But contrary to your experience I get excellent imaging across the stage and at all frequencies. Could be the speakers, rooms, or some combination of those that makes is work and sound so well for me.
@mac48025 I had a trial LTA system with my Tektons. It sounded great and is basically the only tube amp manufacture I would consider. But head to head with my 2170, the Lyngdorf sounded more dynamic and natural to me and everyone else I put through blind testing with my Tektons. But that's just my experience.

@charles1dad You're correct as always!

@waltersalas I couldn't agree more with your post too! 

Thanks
jcarcopo , waltersalas and cal3713 for useful information.

I am happy with my Lansche Audio 4.1 speakers for 11 years now so it is very unlikely that I change my speakers.

I also had done room correction using Accuphase DG 28 for 15 years at 4 different houses, probably longer than anybody here.

So I fully appreciate the effect of room correction.



I had been happily using EMMLab Dac2 for 8 years which was one of the top Dac when I got it.

It may be time to upgrade it with recent barrage of good Dacs and progress of digital technology.

But I may go into simplifying system using 3400 forgoing lot of cables.

I had amassed more than 20 cables in my library just in case( cables are dependent your system and personal taste)


I may keep LM 508 even after getting 3400 so that I can feel mid range magic using pre out of 3400.

But I am more curious whether DAC section of 3400 is better than EMMLab Dac2.

Also I would like to compare room correction between 3400 and Accuphase DG 28.


I wish to get a chance for home audition of 3400 in my system to find out the answer to my questions.

Ultimately most important thing is whether I will be happy in terms of musical satisfaction with 3400 in my system.

Thomas

Hi Tom,
I’d suggest getting both the LTA and Lyngdorf and just listen (easy for me to say). You have an excellent sounding and high resolution system that will sort it all out. This will settle any lingering doubts/curiosity  Higher power may certainly offer advantages versus the 8 watt  SET with possible tradeoffs? Who knows? Keep us informed if you do go this route.
Charles

I agree Charles......I owe it to myself to at least try the LTA and Lyngdorf. You'll be getting a call to come over to hear them when I have them as I very much appreciate and value your input. It will be difficult for anything to displace my 300B but I need to hear for myself to eliminate any nagging doubts. Time and hearing will tell. And yes, there will undoubtedly be trade offs between the SET and more power and only by hearing it my room will I know if those trade offs are worth it to me. 

Cal, I'm also using the Duelund cables and love them. 12ga for speakers and 16 ga IC's. Jeff Days blog and Grannyring's input were invaluable.

Thanks bullitt, it seems a SET, LTA or the Lyngdorf are all great options. It's just a matter of personal preferences which will work best in each of our systems. I'm glad that you, waltersalas and Jcarcopo are enjoying the Lyngdorf so much. While it's hard for me to wrap my head around one piece replacing three SOTA pieces, I owe it a try with so much praise for it here. 

Tom

Hi Tom,
I'll wait patiently for your invitation. I'm very curious as to how the LTA  and Lyngdorf with room correction interact within your system.
Charles 

mac48025, On Agon here, lancelock has tried many amps, LTA and SS, and has ended up with his final choice of the new LTA Preamp and LTA Ultralinear amp. Look him up and message him ( Lance). 

My office room has the following dimensions, 10W x 11.5L x 9H. Not very big but would work OK with a stand mount speaker. This room is only going to be needed for about 1 to 2 years and then I move to a bigger room where a floor stander would work. I have the following 2 speaker choices that I am debating for my small office.

1) KEF Reference 1 with Lyngdrof. Use for a few years and then change to a floor stander, such as the Magico A3.

2) Magico A3 with Lyngdorf. Maybe suffer for a few years in the small room until I move to the new room. I have never heard this combo.

I have heard the KEF Reference 1 with various types of amps and love that speaker. I have heard the Magico A3 with both various Mark Levinson gear and Benchmark gear (AHB2 + DAC3L). Loved it with the ML gear so much so that I sold the Benchmark gear (I liked it with the Benchmark). My thinking was I would buy the Magico A3 and ML 585 for the office. However, when I finally picked a house, the ugly room size made a surprising entry into the equation. So room correction became a top priority.

I am typing this as I listen to the Class D Peachtree Nova 150 with KEF LS50’s and it sounds good in my bedroom. So I have an open mind to the Class D Lyngdorf.

Can any of you Lyngdorf fans advise me as to what would be the better choice of the 2 speakers I listed with the Lyngdrof in the small room? I like both speakers so my question is about the integration of either speaker into this small room with the Lyngdorf. The A3 would be my longer term choice, 2 years down the line in the bigger office. Can the A3 be room corrected into this small space? Are the Magico A3 and the Lyngdorf a good combination even if room correction was not needed?

BTW -  Tomorrow, I have my Audience 1+1 V3 speaker coming back from Audience after an upgrade. This is what I will use with maybe a tube amp if neither the KEF Ref 1 or Magico A3 sound good with the Lyngdorf (hedging my bet) otherwise I will likely sell the 1+1.

I would go with the Magico  A3. That way you can also use it when you get a bigger office.
Lyngdorf will allow it to sound great in your current room

@grey9hound Thanks for the feedback. I was going to send you a private message on this if no one answered my question. I have read some of your posts on the Lyngdorf.

Apologies in advance if it’s discussed before.

I currently stream to Bluesound node 2 which is connected to Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 (i have 2+2 system with B&W 805D2 and 2 x ASW610XP)

I am looking into potential upgrades.

Option 1) To get a better streamer  i.e. auralic aries g1 and use roon with it

Option 2) Upgrade TDAI-2170 to TDAI-3400 (which is roon ready) and use roon with it

Anyone with any experience/thoughts on these options?

Which one would offer a bigger quality jump.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but want to hear what others think :)

I use my 2170 with Roon. Loving it for several years now. I use a USB optimized computer server powerful enough to use Roon’s DSP processing if I choose to. No need to spend the money required for the 3400 in my estimation if your speakers don’t require the added power. I don’t think the 3400 sounds any better and frankly wonder if the 2170 may be a tad more organic sounding. Often times more power with the same overall design parameters does not equal better sound if your speakers don’t demand it.

I tried out the newer, more powerful Lyngdorf 2400 amp which is pretty much the same power rating as the 3400 and preferred the sound of my 2170 on its own. It was a tad more musical and rich in the mids. Sure the 2400 has more authority at higher volumes with my 88db speakers, but I liked the 2170 better overall.

I am saying you you can have great sounding Tidal streaming with Roon using your 2170. Great sounding. If you have any DIY skills you can build your own Roon Nucleus server as they offer a kit with a Nuc as the foundation. You can build one well under $1000. Also so many other options.

While there is much debate on which method sounds best USB vs others, I have had stellar results with USB.  You need to use a USB optimized server with a nice USB card from SOTM or Pink Faun. The addition of the Ifi usb 3 reclocker/filter makes for wonderful sounding Tidal streaming with Roon. 

+1 on what Grannyring said above. I have a DIY HT Computer with an external linear PS and SOTM USB output card. That feeds an iFI Micro iUSB3 and then to the 2170. I have Windows 10 customized for Audio and use Roon/Tidal and a SS Drive for my FLAC files ripped with dbpoweramp. It took a LOT of experimentation to come to that signal path including much more expensive devices than I finally settled on. My wife and my daughter, both with super human hearing, often threaten me if I start talking about changing anything again.

The 3400’s integration with Roon/TIDAL and Spotify Connect over ethernet is seamless. It allows you from standby, or any current input, to cue and play a song from the Roon/Tidal app or the Spotify app from your phone or tablet and the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 will switch automatically to appropriate input automatically. Track forward, track back, pause/play, and volume control from either the physical Bluetooth remote and the aforementioned phone or tablet apps is a nice touch. My Roon dedicated server uses a dedicated fanless quad-core computer made by www.AtlastSolutions.com out of the UK. It sports an 512gb nvme ssd, 32gb ram, i7 quad-core intel processor, and I added a 4tb ssb for my music library. I installed a $400 dedicated JCAT femto based USB card to connect it to the Lyngdorf directly just to play music or media from sources other than Roon or Spotify since the 3400 handles them natively. I power both the USB card and the fanless media server that runs absolutely silent with a dedicated linear power supply made by HDPLEX.COM.

Personally, I find the sound from 3400 is exemplary in all respects. So much so that I rarely switch to my 300B tube amps anymore. It’s simply that good. I’m completely smitten by Lyngdorf’s implementation of Class D. It’s not something I come to grips with easily having been so used to the tube sound of SET amplifiers for so many years. It’s not identical to a SET in the midrange, but it’s utterly neutral and very emotionally engaging. With Room Perfect on the improved sonics for me surpass an entire system upgrade.

Agreed! The Lyngdorf units when properly and patiently implemented are just flat out satisfying. I never think about amps, preamps, or dacs anymore! 

I am also using the 400 watt HDPLEX external LPS with my HTPC rig. I am also using separate LP supplies to power the internal SOTM USB card and the iFI Micro USB that were recommended by and upgraded for me by Grannyring. Power supplies DO make a difference.

Thanks a lot for quick responses, i do appreciate it.
I assume you are feeding in to Lyngdorf via USB module, is that correct?

Yes. From the iFI to the Lyngdorf USB module.
One of the surprises for me is the iFI module. It was chosen over the Muteck, the SOTM-USBUltra, UltraRendu and some other solutions of much higher cost. We just kept going back to the iFI.

Yes the USB which sounds the best in the 2170 and gives you DSD capability. I also love the Ifi unit.  Put a Perfect Path Ecard in that unit and be amazed at the improvement.  Amazed. 

Thank you all.  I actually placed orders for a NUC and iFI micro usb.
My only concern is running roon core on NUC and play from it at the same time.
But i will see how that goes :)

Grannyring I can't find any info searching for a Perfect Path Ecard. Can you give me a URL please? You phrased that like you were modding the iFI. Are you tinkering with those now? Highly interested!