This has been a very interesting thread for me as I have a Dialogue 2 (my second PrimaLuna integrated, started with a Prologue 2)and am in the process of upgrading to a Prologue Premium pre-amp and likely (not yet) a Dialogue Premium stereo amp. Right now I am just running the PL Premium preamp to the HT bypass mode of my Dialogue 2 and listening. I have the stock tubes in the preamp and am upgrading them soon. Through tube rolling with the pre and power tubes in the Dialogue 2, I know tubes make a big difference, and I really think I can get better sound out of the Prologue Premium pre-amp. I love Primaluna products, and this is my first venture into separates. BTW I am cleaning out my tube stash and will be selling them here on Agon soon. Comments, input, opinions, observations are welcome! |
Thanks Newbee! I think you are correct that the Premiums have better parts, so probably sound more refined. I'm convinced that the Dialogue series is generally better than the Prologue, if only because of the larger transformers.
Given the choice, I'd go with the Dialogue Premium separates or even the Dialogue Premium integrated. But, the cost is way high, and I think the overall improvement will be incremental, not a transformation. So, to trade up from Dialogue One to Dialogue Premium Integrated would cost $1500 or so. That's a lot higher cost, for what may only be a little improvement.
So, I'm going to stick with what I've got and spend a little money on some new interconnects and some vinyl. |
Sound wise, I wouldn't assume that the PL Premium is better or worse than the Dialogue 2 series in most respects, different perhaps. The smaller transformers suggests either bass differences or a more limited ability to drive some speakers, or both. Build wise I suspect that either series is comparable, just using different parts for sonic reasons. I also suspect that the Prologue Premium and the Dialogue Premium may sound more similar to each other than either the PL or Dialogue series.
FWIW, I happen to have both the Dialogue 1, and the Dialogue 2. Using Identical tubes (and sources) in both they still do not sound the same. I think some is attributable to the bias circuit in each which is optimized for either the small or large power tubes, not both (but I have found the Sovtek KT88's and EI tubes in the Dialogue 1 do sound wonderful, and I prefer them to any EL34's or 6L6GC's I have tried.)
What I'm trying to say is that you already have a fine little amp and apart from 3db more sonic power and a little less than optimum resolution which most folks will never hear in less than an optimum set up you have little to gain by moving up the PL line. If absolute resolution is important to you I'd think you would want to hear the Dialogue Premium, or maybe even better yet the Dialogue Preamp/Amps. I would for sure, but they are a bit more expensive. |
Thanks so much! Exactly what I was wondering. I've been using Gold Lions and thought the bass was lacking. So I got the kt120s to try. I haven't had enough listening time yet, but can report back later. It just so happened that the dealer where I got the tubes has this 3/7 setup he wants to sell. It's in like new condition. But if it's not a step up, i will keep saving my beans for the future.
It was really eye opening, both for me and the Mcintosh dealer to listen to the prologue and the 6300 next to each other. We both expected a big difference and it just wasn't there. The Mac sounded a bit fuller in the low midrange, but overall the sound was really similar. We were using a Mac CD player, so maybe that's part of it. But either way, for half the price the prologue premium really held its own. I think prologue premium is very similar to dialogue 1/2 in overall build, but perhaps with smaller transformers. Is that correct? Or at least close? |
Yep! And, FWIW, I found the Dialogue 2 has better bass and a warmer tone than I could ever get with the 3/5 combo. I also found the transparency of the PL3 wasn't exactly SOTA either, not that the Dialogue 2 is exceptional in that respect either. Overall I found the Dialogue to be just more 'musical', i.e. it was much easier to get lost in the music. FWIW, I use Tung-sol 6550's and EI 12AX7's and 12AU7's. |
Newbee, this is exactly what I was looking for. So, if I read you correctly, making the swap will give me more power, but generally lower sound quality? I suspected that... this must be the big difference from Prologue to Dialogue. Thank you! |
I have a Prologue 3/5 combo as well as a Dialogue 2. The Dialogue 2 is better in all respects, except power output than the Prologue 3/5 in my system.
Don't consider Cayin! The distributor's service sucks big time (details available to those interested) and I suspect that perhaps Cayin no longer has a North American Distributor, or so it seems. Too bad though, I have big Cayin amps and their sound WAS fine before they died prematurely. |
Please look at the Cayin line, it is made by the same people who make the PrimaLuna. IMO, Cayin has better sound, better value. |
I think 1,000 for double the power is worth it. You will find that the mono blocks and the preamp work very well together. OK, then there is the Big cost to consider when you have to re tube or roll tubes.If you live in the south they will heat up a room in the summer so that might be a concern maybe not.Go with the Prima Luna it dosent get much cheaper too enjoy tubes! I use a prologue 3 in a smaller system and have really enjoyed its wide ,dynamic, sweet sound. I use Tung Sol 12ax's and Mazda Cifte 12au's and I use the Big 5r4/GYZ's from Holland for the rectifiers. The bass is tight and has a good punch. Hopefully you will use decent cables hooking all this up. The cables are like tone controls so you want to pick something that wont suck up the power and remains neutral to transparent. happy listning |
PrimaLuna gear, no matter what series, is excellent for the
money.
If it was me, I'd move up to the separates. |
