I just bought one new off Agon for $1,000, a great deal. I compared it to the Bel Canto Dac 3 and NAD M51. It bested the Bel Canto in total output, finesse, and certainly bass. The NAD was really close but I preferred the warmer sound of the Wadia on my higher efficiency speakers.
Haven't heard the Ayre. |
Sorry to get here late however I wanted to mention that I am using an Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC and have had luck with tweaking the sound beautifully. I've added an XLR tuning stick from Akiko Audio to my DAC left XLR output and an Akiko 3D tuning chip on top of the DAC, in the center and towards the back (at first the 3D tuning chip was overwhelming but I have now found that an entirely different placement from my original choice makes this DAC sing beyond my expectations). I switched out the DAC stock fuse with a Synergistic Research Black fuse and added two Akiko fuse tuning chips as well. I've also added an Akiko USB tuning stick to my MacMini. The difference is remarkable and I am no longer up sampling. I've found no up sampling to be both unnecessary and preferable. I also use Audirvana Plus 3. For those who are totally opposed to tweaking, I completely understand but if you have no objections towards tweaking, the Akiko products, with patience and careful placement, work wonders . |
Hi eddy, Should you now or at a later time decide to replace your PC with a server/renderer/streamer, there are good options at reasonable prices. The Auralic Aries is a good all-in-one streamer/renderer (wireless with a good control App - easy peezy to install and use) for <$1k used. A good bump up in sound and build quality is the Aurender N100H (Ethernet connection required and includes 2T HDD storage and 240Gb SSD cache - hi-rez downloads played from the Aurender can make any compatible DAC sound pretty amazing) for about 2X that price. Both are reported to work well with a variety of DACs via USB but a few DACs struggle with the Linux-based operating system of the Aurender so best to check that out before buying. Others will no doubt have their favorites in the lower price range. Once you experience the benefits of improved sound quality, flexibility, and user-orientation of the better renderer/streamer products you will not go back to your desktop/laptop. Dave |
Hi Eddy. FIRST, I recommend finalizing on a DAC. Though there are similarities between DACs, the one you choose may have some particulars that you will need to work with. I'd let the DAC decision lead you. Just as one example, and solely to illustrate my point, if the DAC you choose is galvanically isolated in a proper way, you may not need galvanic isolation ahead of it. Once you figure the DAC out, the DAC will serve to guide your choices to best meet your needs. It will also allow you to search the forums and reviews to see what works or doesn't work with respect to it. |
@ david_ten, Thank you. I am not planning to upgrade my other components anytime soon. "The 1.5K in left-over budget, in my opinion, would be better applied to a networked approach (which eliminates your PC as the direct source), better cabling, and a product to clean up the signal into the DAC (input dependent). Let’s call this the best bang for your current buck /system approach. This will provide you with really good results, and is beneficial in that is broadens your approach to and understanding of computer based audio." Sure I can get rid of PC of of my system. Please list the components you suggest that I need to buy. My only sources of music will be CD and Spotify/Tidal. Thank you, Eddy |
@eddy1 If it were me in your shoes, I would only push the spend if I was planning on upgrading my other components in the near future. If you are on that path, then spending more will pay dividends now and down the line. Let’s call this the patient yet more future proofed approach. This will give you good results but it will give you much better results sometime in the future, though it will require a much higher outlay over that time period (speakers, amps, etc.) I look at the component as a mini-system in of itself. Even though the Yggy comes in under 2.5K when I consider the supporting elements that mini-system is actually a $6.5K component (cables in, platform, footers, Sonore/Uptone, etc). More if I assign a percentage of the power conditioning, upstream power cable, etc. This does not include what I consider my digital source component (PC, Server, Router, Switch, mini power supplies, and the supporting cabling, etc). I’m mentioning the above because I advise you to consider a $1K budget for a new DAC (used/new). The 1.5K in left-over budget, in my opinion, would be better applied to a networked approach (which eliminates your PC as the direct source), better cabling, and a product to clean up the signal into the DAC (input dependent). Let’s call this the best bang for your current buck /system approach. This will provide you with really good results, and is beneficial in that is broadens your approach to and understanding of computer based audio. |
I also want to add that I'm waiting until the dust settles on the latest Sonore offerings. There is an upgrade ahead of the Yggy in the near future. May be Sonore, or SOtM, or dCS or Antipodes. Mentioning this because it demonstrates my faith in the performance of the Schiit Yggdrasil. There is one DAC I'd recommend around 1k, but it is a newcomer and I'm not sure I'd advise one starting out on their DAC journey to consider it. If you are willing to push your budget, once you can get to around 2.5K there are a few options that punch high enough to give the 'big boy and girl DACs' a run for the money and keep them honest. Let me know if you are open to complicating your decision and choices, if so, I will offer up a few more choices to consider. |
@eddy1 There are a number of great options in DACLand. Since I have the Wadia 121, the Exogal Comet Plus, and the Schiit Yggdrasil...I figured my comments may be helpful since these products have been discussed in this thread. First, you are getting great advice from everyone. And I mean that. All are making good points and recommendations. Second, I would like to second (or is it +1?) @dlcockrum posts here. I haven’t read the review he mentions, but I’d say that the Comet with the optional power supply (which makes it the Comet Plus) is hands down superior to the Wadia 121. I like the Wadia, and have kept it on hand, because it is good. And I’d be happy to recommend it, especially at the prices it goes for used now, for a simple starter system. It also happens to be very well built. The newer Wadia products are certainly also worth considering, and are going for far below what they are truly worth. The point about bringing in the ISOREGEN is an important one. It will improve the performance of your DAC. And it will likely improve the performance of your replacement DAC, whatever that might be. A spend on it is easier to justify this way, as long as you are using USB. If you want to start at a lower price point go with the Regen, used options at very good prices as many have upgraded to the Iso. I have this configuration running before the Yggy: Sonore microRendu 1.3 > Uptone Regen > Schiit Yggy And yes, @dlcockrum the Yggy also benefits from the Regen. I was in the first wave for the ISOREGEN, which had a bum board. I decided to wait until the finalized corrected boards were in, and I just got notification that the ISOREGEN is on it’s way to me. It should take the performance up a notch or two. (NOTE: I don’t have the new GEN5 USB board, so this may make something like the Uptone products less impactful with the DACs with the Gen5 boards, just something to know and keep in mind.) Good luck and all the best in your choices. |
Just ran across the review below of the Exogal Comet. The reviewer compares it extensively to the Wadia 121 and 521. His description of the sound of the Comet is dead on based on my experience of ownership, only he chose not to opt for the optional Linear power supply for the review. A HUGE mistake and I can confidently say that is part of his valid criticism of lack of bass weight and power compared to the Wadia 521. Notice I said 'part of" because the Comet retains a "light" (but audibly improved) overall sonic character even with the optional power supply. All of the other outstanding sound qualities of this DAC simply make you ignore this and marvel at the music. Real point here is that, if this reviewer nailed the sound of the Comet so well, his comments on the strengths and weaknesses of the Wadia 121/521 and the house sound of Wadia's recent products should be equally valid for Eddy. Dave http://hifi-advice.com/blog/digital-reviews/spdif-dac-reviews/exogal-comet |
May viewpoints on the Lumin D-1 streaming dac had no intention of bring brash Or hold. I have heard at least 80% of the top 10 sellers and I was just voicing My view point with my opinion if others choose to not take my opinion serious They may be dismissing something thst is very special and everywhere was Very good, you buy the ad on high end performance power supply then it is in another category competing with digital several times it's cost. At least read the reviews If nothing else .you have Nothing to loose and Everything to gain. |
If you dont have to have DSD there is a new Wadia 321 on Ebay for ~$1.2, which in my opinion is a good deal as it was originally $3K. I have the same model and the only real difference between this model and the di 321 is the DSD capability but you might want to verify that. I have the regular 321 and I bought it to match up with a Rogue RP-1 and a class D amp. My 321 gets played daily and when I work from home it's cranking all day and has not missed a beat. There are a few detail reviews out there on the regular 321 but have not searched on the new di. I really like my 321 it surely helped take the edge off and extend the sweet spot for my class D amp. Also Wadia, for better or worse, is now part of the Mcintosh Group. |
Agree that the Comet Plus is a special and very good sounding DAC. A true bargain at street price or maybe at any price. Its resolution raises my bar yet brings the slightest imperfection/mismatch of accompanying cables, cords, fuses, etc into the forefront. Purist Audio's top products proved to be the answer in my system, room, ears. The executives of Exogal and the Chief Engineer Jim Kinne were indeed the brains behind Wadia in its glory days. Dave |
Neither ,by far the most natural sounding, the Lumin D-1 Dac streamer It does it all , and if you buy the great add on power supply from Linear Tube Audio. It us a Force ,Lapizator7 territory for under $2500 Try the stock D-1 first and the App the best for Album art I have seen,roon,-yes, MQA- Tidal-yes. Droid,or Ipad- phone . You can thank me later. |
Eddy, Just ran across a test/review/blog on the ISO Regen that, among other things, showed a test of noise within the Schiit Modi2 DAC with and without the ISO Regen in the USB signal path. Bottom line, according to the author, the Schiit Modi2 does a very poor job of reducing/eliminating noise on its own and was dramatically improved by the ISO Regen. Rather than buying a new DAC, you might consider first trying the ISO Regen for $325 (30 day 100% money back guarantee) and see if your Modi2 then provides the sound you seek. The article is beyond reproach as to "audiophile tainting" since the author pretty much judges the ISO Regen to be a complete waste of money with other modern DACs. I would never suggest that this is also a shortcoming in Schiit’s better DACs like the Yggdrasil so hold your fire George. The article can be found on audiosciencereview.com. Dave |
nycjlee, I too went off the beaten path for my most recent computer audio DAC purchase: the Exogal Comet Plus (made in America). It does some things better than anything else I have yet heard, but I had to work with it considerably (cables, cords and fuses) re: tonal balance to get the rightness in that one (important to me) attribute that I always experienced "out of the box" from Ayre. FWIW. Dave |
I've been mostly an Ayre guy, all my electronics is Ayre and I've been using the Ayre Codex for the last 1 1/2 and it has been a great ride. Unable to spend money for the Ayre QX5/20 and getting the itch for something new, I ended up buying a DAC from a Chinese company called Denafrips. Granted, I blindly bought their top line DAC the "Terminator", what a nice surprise, the sound quality is exceptional. It easily beats the Codex and in my opinion it's sounds even better than the QX5 for pcm files. If I was in the market for a new DAC, I would definitely put one of the Denafrips DACs in the running. Btw, I'm keeping the Codex has a headphone DAC/amp. Lots of good choices out there. Buy what sound good to you. Good luck! |
Eddy, I have enough experience with Ayre and Wadia to comment that both will give you a great balance between air and open-ness, detail, and warmth. Can’t go wrong with either from where you are now. I have never heard Schiit, so cannot say, but some I trust (david_ten for one) are very happy with their Yggdrasils. Dave |
George, my Modi Multibit look and feel just like a toy to me HiFi to me is all about the sound, I couldn't care if it looks likes a ratz a**e. Some like to listen, some like to look. It's what's on the inside that counts, the circuitry is all that matters, the rest is WAF, or show off material. Cheers George |
I own the Ayre Codex DAC and highly recommend it. Ayre Acoustics is a great company and all their products are excellent. I have used my Codex DAC as a preamplifier/DAC and also a standalone DAC. It is an outstanding performer in both applications. Please see: https://www.audiostream.com/content/ayre-acoustics-codex-usb-dac-headphone-amp-digital-preamp Someone on Audiogon has an Ayre Codex DAC listed for sale at $1,100. Please see: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-ayre-codex-2017-08-16-digital |
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Thank you everyone for your advise. Dave, I really like air and openness, details, and warmth. George, my Modi Multibit look and feel just like a toy to me if compare it to other brand like Wadia or Ayre. The front button switch got to much play. It might be because it is only $249. This is one of my main reason that is why I am not sure if I really want other Schiit. I had an eye on Gungnir multibit before purchase Modi too. |
resolution, air and open-ness, speed, harmonic texture, accuracy of timbre, PRAT, soundstage, depth, warmth, bass heft.= Schiit Yggdrasil Absolute Sound, absolutely loved it. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-dac/ Cheers George |
Good DACs rarely (but sometimes, ie tube vs ss) have "huge differences" in sound character IME but have certain "tendencies": resolution, air and open-ness, speed, harmonic texture, accuracy of timbre, PRAT, soundstage, depth, warmth, bass heft. etc. They all are a unique trade off of the above, tending toward some attributes more than others. Select your key sonic priorities and then advice can be helpful. Auditioning for yourself is always better than advice, preferably in your system and room. A lot of Schiit and Codex owners here. Perhaps they will contribute opinions on your last question. Wadia used to be a huge player in digital, but changes of ownership and design priorities seems to have diminished their presence (but not necessarily their sound quality?) in the past few years. Dave |
