I recognize that musical taste is highly subjective, but "Jazz At the Pawnshop" is pretty lame music. In its place I would recommend the Chesky recordings of McCoy Tyner, John Faddis or Bucky Pizzarelli. All of these are great music, well recorded and released in the the SACD format. |
Onhwy61, I guess I don't have the sophistocated taste in jazz as you do, as I have been only listening to jazz for the last 20 years including the lame "Jazz at the Pawnshop" in it's original LP pressing. But thanks for the advice on the Chesky recordings. |
Even if the music is "lame", I always remember the LP as one of the most magical and ambient recordings ever.
I am not sophisticated in matters of jazz either, but I think Miles Davis Kind of Blue on SACD is also pretty good.
In general, I would rather listen to good music and a great recording than great music and a bad recording, which is perhaps what defines an "audiophile".
Best wishes. |
I can not speak to this disc directly but I have a few FIM discs and all are very good recordings. I have no experience with Proprius so I can not speak to the quality of their recordings. Lame or not if you like it thats all that matters.Good Luck and hope I could help.
Chuck |
Musical tastes aside, I'd have to agree with CW London; I had the LP version of JAP and used it as a reference for sound-staging and atmosphere. I liked the cut, Limehouse Blues, for those purposes. For me the music is pretty ho-hum too, but if my tastes ran that way, man that'd be a great example of that genre (very mellow jazz-club on a Wednesday night playing easy-listening jazz). Sorry, no ideas about the SACD versions.
Marco |
I didn't mean to offend, but to my highly evolved sensibilities "Jazz At the Pawnshop" is the jazz equivalent of Pat Boone's covers of Fats Domino and Little Richard's rock 'n' roll. Yes, it's that lame.
There is so much well recorded great jazz available now that JAP (notice the reference to JATP) just isn't necessary. It's listening to music like this that gives audiophiles a bad reputation. |
Really Onhwy61, most of us listen to music to relax and enjoy, not to deconstruct and analize it. I listen to music that makes me happy, and JATP fits the bill every time. What makes you such an expert on Jazz to tell us what we should be listening to? I would think snobbish attitude like yours is what gives audiophiles a bad name. My post asked a specific question about two versions of the same music. I did not ask for a lecture on your taste in music. If you don't want to offend, don't look down on the taste of music of others. JATP has been around 30 years for a good reason - people enjoy listening to it. |
You say you listen to music that makes you happy and that people enjoy "Jazz At the Pawnshop". I'll take you word on both those points. I'll readily concede that happy enjoyable music has its place, but I question whether you should call such comfort music Jazz. Good jazz has a real edge to it that never allows the listener to get too comfortable. NC for the lecture.
Am I being a snob? Yes I Am! Should my opinion of "Jazz At the Pawnshop" in any way lessen your enjoyment of the disc? You tell me.
P.S. Pat Boone's still around too. |
Who needs JAP?! I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy just reading this discussion!!
Marco |
Ohywy61, I'm just having a good time fooling with ya :-) My purpose for listening to music is different than yours. I don't want to be uncomfortable listening to music. Excitement, yes! Sadness, yes! Happiness, yes! Pain/discomfort/boring, no! I've had my fill of wondering (improvisational) jazz - everytime I listen to it I wonder what in the hell I'm listening to and get Sunday church bored. Music is not highly subjective, it is all subjective. Have fun with your unconfortable jazz. Hey what's wrong with Pat Boone? I thought his sister was hot! She lit up my life :-) |
Onhwy61, does this mean that you really like listening to Schoenberg, Webern & Berg and their 12-tone rows? Or perhaps John Cage? They definitely make me uncomfortable, and if that's the definition of "better" music, makes me wonder why I ever listen to Bach.
This could lead into an interesting discussion of why we like what we like. But preferrably in a thread about that.
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It's clearly too late to save Dracule 1, but if my rantings can prevent just a single young audiophile out there from having to hear "Jazz...", then my life has served some purpose.
"See that girl, watch that scene, diggin' the Dancin' Queen" - now that's my idea of great Nordic music. |
Hey, who are you calling young? Pretty soon, I'll be getting my first colonoscopy.
ABBA, the greatest band to come outside this country since Air Supply. Happy music! Oh, how I miss my youth. |
Onhwy61 - Are you saying there is no great Scandanavian Jazz? Have you listened to the CD's by Tord Gustavsen (Norway)? Changing Places sounds pretty good to my uncultivated ears. The ECM release, Achirana, also features a Nordic bassist Arild Andersen, and is outstanding! Perhaps he's tempered by the Greek pianist.
Marco |
No, I did not say that. At least you've finally admitted to the true condition of your ears. Fortunately for you it's not too late in the season for a little Scott's Stage 1 to kill the weeds and some Miracle-Gro to start some serious cultivating in those ears. |
Ah, great, I'll get right on that as I'll need a nice crop of potatos to make it through the harsh Seattle winter! Thanks for the tip! I always admired the lush harvest sprouting from James Whitmore's ears. I think he was doing a bit of cultivating in the nasal cavity's as well!
Marco |
Dracule,
That was Pat Boone's daughter, not his wife, that was lighting you up! |
I am wondering if anybody intends to answer the question he asked? |
What was my question again? Oh yea. Will someone answer my question?!!! I'm going to AA. May be I'll get some answers there. I gotta go listen to my Debby Boone album and go to my happy place. |
I recognize that that taste in Audio chat sites is highly subjective, but those folks at AA are pretty lame. In place of consulting them I'd suggest a cold water enema.
Marco |
Colonoscopy? Cold Water Enema? Where can I find these SACD's? |
Colonoscopy? Cold Water Enema? Where can I find
these SACD's? Since you ASSked: Both are readily available where the sun never shines. Hard core jazz addicts got nothing on suffering over these two selections! Dat shit'd make John Zorn on a Bose Wave with the volume at 3 O'clock seem like sex in the afternoon with Angelina Jolie! Marco |
Onhwy61, "good jazz has a real edge......". As I type I'm listening to an Ahmad Jamal album and I'm just comfortable as all get out! What does that mean for me and jazz? But I get your point. My next album will be Joe Henderson's Lush Life - I'm sure there are a couple of "jazz" cuts on it somewhere. :-)
Dracule, FWIW, I have the LP and one of the Proprius CD's (not SACD). I much prefer the LP. Maybe the SACD is better than the CD........ |
In Ken Burn's "Jazz" Wynton Marsalis was quite articulate on the subject. The edge is jazz's basis in the blues. Mr. Marsalis was referring to Louis Armstrong, a man who smiled and jived on stage, but in real life carried switchblade which he was quick to pull. Jazz can take on many different forms, but underneath the surface the is the sharp edge of the blues. Duke Ellington expressed it slightly differently - "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing." He was talking about the same thing. |
Fight nice kids,or you will be sent to the BOSE room for a "time out" |
What do you call it when someone affects a condescending attitude and then, while feigning interest in someone's tastes or experiences says:
"Are your familiar with ________" "Have you listened to ________" and/or "have you ever been to ________"
and then fills in the blank with something totally obscure?
"Jazz" at the Pawnshop would be perfect for that type of person.
I am horrified and embarrassed that it took an old school piano teacher to remind me that contemporary instrumental music is NOT necessarily "jazz". |
So.......what do you guys think of Kenny G?
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They killed Kenny, didn't they? That's what Cartman tells me! If they didn't, I sure wish somebody would! I can do without John Tesh as well.
Marco |
JATP is far from the worst example of mediocre jazz. At least it is a great recording if rather tame if not lame, certainly not so bad if not for the sophisticated jazz listener, the guys that can listen to Coltrane for 8 hrs straight without a break for fear of missing something:) Onhwy61 I suggest you might try listening to some of the tripe put out by Chesky or GRP from the 80's if you haven't, but you probably have so you know.
In any case I haven't heard the SACD of either but it does beg the question, How good does mediocrity have to sound?:) |
No GRPs, but several CTIs. |
Always surprised at the general bad rap Chesky, CTI, & GRP usually generate. I can certainly recognize a lot of the dogs these companies released (sometimes by very respectable artists!), but all these companies also've released quite a few exemplary records. I've seen this negative opinion expressed elsewhere also, is it human nature to recognize the negative above the positive?
I've always thought that JATP is for people who know nothing of true Jazz, they think this is what Jazz sounds like but really, what a snoozefest! |
chazro you are right, of course not all the GRP and Chesky's are bad but there is plenty of mediocrity and some that are down right dogs on both labels, I own some and can attest to it first hand. I've personally thought of JATP for what it is, a great recording of local musicians at a small jazz venue, been to plenty of them and this set is no better or worse than many sets I've heard in such venues. No, it isn't great jazz for sure but it really is quite listenable for the casual listener if not the enthusiast and a definite thumbs up for audiophiles to hear a really terrific example of well recorded music in such a venue. |
I remember when JATP meant Jazz At the Philharmonic. |
Re-viving an older thread here;
which SACD label do you guys prefer?
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