Pro-Ject Prebox RS - no linear power supply (unless you buy the additional external linear power supply for more money). Potentiometer volume control. rogue RP-1 - very good linear power supply with good capacitance bank. I’m going to assume it uses a resistor-ladder volume control. I also see a couple nice film/poly capacitors next to the tubes for better output audio quality. Pro-Ject does not have anything like this. It looks like all the op-amps are socketed, so it's possible you can try swapping out different op-amps for improved/changed sonic signature. Schiit Freya - based on picture looks good. Based on feedback, it is an "okay" device. In the end, you get what you pay for in most cases. |
Every ROHS compliant solder I’ve ever ’heard’ sounds very subtly ’hard’.
I even know of one company that will not sell into ROHS compliant territory..as the ’no lead’..... solder changes sonic signatures too much for their liking.
It is a problem that RHOS complaint region manufacturers have to pretend ---does not exist. Or manufacturers that have turned into the ROHS wind and become wholly ROHS complaint.
It is a minor, but notable and pervasive change in sound qualities that are available at a fundamental level. It’s a subtle but near irreversible step backward in the realm of sound quality. Something that makes pinnacles previously known--into being unobtainable. the ’hard’ bit in the sound quality is also slightly, subtly ’hazy’, part of what it is doing at the fundamental levels.
Further, I know of one engineer at a well known major solder manufacturer, who says that ’there are no lead free eutectic solders’. that none of them (eutectic ROHS solders) actually exist, no matter what the claims may be.
Thus another group that is fundamental to this situation, saying that something ’is’, when it is not.
For the audio world’s obtainable pinnacles, ROHS is a subtle but actual step backward in obtainable sound qualities. For the junk end of the spectrum of tv's electronics, blurays, etc...who cares. No big deal. For extremes, the kind we spend the money to try and get to, it is a soon to be pervasive (everywhere) issue, a fundamental issue.
No one wants to speak about this.
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Which amp are you referring to? |
There is so much variation in components, layout, parts selection, and so on, that this subtlety can be swamped, if you don't know what to listen for.
What it takes to really hear it and know it... is to complete a new piece of gear with about 3 of the top ROHS complaint solders and then do the same piece again, with leaded solders, the ones considered 'best' in the world of audio. Then burn in, and try the 5-6 items individually...wih the only differences being the solder, in a-b/etc aural testing.
Then you'll learn to recognize what ROHS does. A subtle but pervasive downturn in sonic qualities available, in my experience and that of some others who are willing to do the involved level of testing, and actually make mention of it.
It's one of those things that no one wants to talk about.
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@teo_audio - that is all very interesting and education about ROHS solder, but what does it have to do with the OP's question about comparing 4 different preamp internal pictures? |
He must be accidentally posting in wrong forum. I do know more about solder than I ever have |
Just a thing that comes up when looking at internal shots of gear, is all. If looking at the guts of gear then it’s about how it’s built and with what parts and the solder is part of that.
Solder was never designed (original purpose) to be an electrical connection, it was designed to be an electrically conductive physical anchor for a metal to metal contact situation.
It was shoehorned into being an electrical contact/co-joining material as technology involving electricity evolved. Solder is far from perfect and varies in sound qualities across the solder formula spectrum. In any given piece of gear that possesses circuit boards and soldered components, the solder is, in sonic terms, one of the most influential components in the given box.
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Still not sure how this relates to the OPs question. Are you saying that you can see if a unit uses RHOS solder just by looking at the internal photos? If so, which preamp uses RHOS solder? |
@aberyclark what happened to "no black boxes"? Those all look like boxers to me and as I said in your other thread you can really stretch your budget buying used. Or is this a different project?
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Since we are going down the Solder hole here has anyone seen any audio equipment using other means of connections, other then clip on connectors usually used at speaker driver terminals? I’ve used wire wrap connections in military grade equipment because it can give a better connection that is more vibration and shock resistant but not sure how it would be for audio signals. Very time consuming compared to a soldered joint but maybe could give a different ( better- worse) sound then solder.
Hay OP not to hijack your thread here with the above, but have you though about a quality switching box like the ones Decware make, many options even can get a volume control on it to make a passive pre. This may work for the short time using your existing DAC. http://www.decware.com/newsite/ZSB.html may other to chose from this is just one example.
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jond
2,310 posts
10-05-2017 9:36pm
@aberyclark what happened to "no black boxes"? Those all look like boxers to me and as I said in your other thread you can really stretch your budget buying used. Or is this a different project?
yes. This is a temporary preamp until i save enough for a much higher $3000 plus one. I thought i had a nice few months old primaluna dialog snagged here on AG, however, the seller tragically passed away ( see other thread)
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So is the Rogue the winner of the three? Freya 2nd and Pro-ject 3rd? |
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Man, you've been having a rather tough go of this preamp search. I wouldn't touch Pro-Ject gear (especially electronics), and the Schiit stuff elicits a "meh" response from me (and I own a Yggdrasil). Though it's not exciting compared to higher-end Rogue offerings, and priced higher than the other 2 options -- the RP-1 is going to be well put together, will probably sound very good, and easily represents the best option of these 3.
Though it would still be wise to wait for the used market to yield a good deal on something that checks all your boxes. Stopgap measures cost extra time + money, and can be frustrating endeavors. Personally I'd wait (very) patiently for a nice used Rogue Athena to crop up. The 6H30pi tube absolutely rocks in line-stage applications! |
Disclaimer, I own some Rogue gear inc. an RP-1. But I'll add a vote for the RP-1 - given that Mark O'Brien has a background in transformer design, that critical component (at least) is likely to be well provisioned.
OP, re: glennewdick's suggestion on the passive pre. When you mentioned the Pro-Ject dac sounds better without the Nova pre... would you say it was better in all ways, or were there any tradeoffs? That might help determine whether a passive is the right fit. |
The Pro-ject just seems more airy and wide. However, that may be due to the dac sounding better. I have been in contact waith a rigue dealer hoping to find a nice used Magnum 99 |
Airy and wide makes sense, taking the preamp out. If you're interested in preserving that kind of transparency (from what I've read, or heard), I think RP-1, used Perseus, or a passive would be worth looking into.
I haven't heard the 99 - I know it is well reviewed and worth a look. From what I've read, it won't be as transparent as the aformentioned options... not to say it won't be a good fit... just something to consider.
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