01-17-10: DonjrWell, that rules out 90% of rock, Pop, Soul, R&B, and country recording artists, too.
RAP is not music as far as I'm concerned. You have to be able to read music to make it.
When will rap music be less mainstream?
First time I heard MC Hammer’s song many years ago, I like the rhythm and thought it is quite unique. After that, all kinds of rap music pop up. I never thought rap music would be mainstream for such a long time in US. If you look at the music award ceremonies, you will find it being flooded with rap music. Sometimes I am not even sure rap can be considered as song because you don’t sing but speak. Now you start to hear rap music in some other languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean that don’t sound good in rap format. It would be interesting to hear rap music in Italian.
Time will tell if a song is good or not. A song is good if somebody want to play it for their loved ones on the radio 20 years later. I can’t imagine someone will play a rap for their beloved one 20 years later. Just curious if any A’gon member keep any rap collection?
Besides rap, I also have a feeling that the music industry in general is getting cheesy now. American Idol show gets huge attention while lots of singers perform at the bar or hotel can easily sing better than the idols. The show also asked Barbara Streisand if she watched the show and who was her favorite idol. What do you expect her to answer? People said Justin Timberlake is very talented singer/songwriter. I know him because I saw lots of headshot of him on commercials and magazines, but can you name any popular/well known song from him?
Time will tell if a song is good or not. A song is good if somebody want to play it for their loved ones on the radio 20 years later. I can’t imagine someone will play a rap for their beloved one 20 years later. Just curious if any A’gon member keep any rap collection?
Besides rap, I also have a feeling that the music industry in general is getting cheesy now. American Idol show gets huge attention while lots of singers perform at the bar or hotel can easily sing better than the idols. The show also asked Barbara Streisand if she watched the show and who was her favorite idol. What do you expect her to answer? People said Justin Timberlake is very talented singer/songwriter. I know him because I saw lots of headshot of him on commercials and magazines, but can you name any popular/well known song from him?
173 responses Add your response
01-18-10: BongofuryStrange story on how he came to be re-discovered. Hawkins had shifted from performing on the Venice boardwalk to the newer 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. Where he used to sit on his paint bucket and play just happened to be right below the dual-use commercial/condo units at the south end of the street. it just so happened that recording artists/songwriter/musician Michael Penn(brother of actors Sean & Chris) lived in the unit right above. Listening to it all day, day after day, Penn became a huge fan of Hawkins. Penn called a good friend of his, Tony Berg, who had just become an A&R rep at Geffen and said "You have to sign this guy". Berg had to really battle to sign a folk/blues/soul artist on a hard rock/alternative label, but eventually won. He got another band of his, The Wild Colonials, to play all the backing string instruments and write the arrangements on "The Next Hundred Years". After the CD came out, literally scores of famous musicians & songwriters(Red Hot Chili Peppers, Joni Mitchell, Seal) sent word that they had been admiring Hawkins playing for a good decade and were overjoyed he finally got recognition. The was a great turnout for his record release party. Every once in while, I remember to toss on "Hundred Years" and fall in love with it all over again. It is beautiful in it's simplicity. |
Bongo - Yup, lovin' "Carried to Dust" lately but "In the Reins" is never too far from the turntable. OT but whats in heavy rotation with you. I could use some good new tunes (as usual) hip hop to country. As for the OP, I'd rather ask "When will LAME MUSIC become less mainstream" Not holding my breath. |
Andrew I like quite a few things at the moment: Cold War Kids, Santa Ana Winds--one of the better bands from So Cal slip in a nice EP for the new year Vampire Weekend: Contra--nice sophmore effort. Especially like the song and video for "Cousins." The Throwdowns: Don't Slow Down. Maui's hottest band effortlessly mixes ska, punk, pop The Union Line: winners of best live act in So Cal. The XX: moody girl/boy songs from London trio. Mos Def: Estatic: nice return to form for this Brooklyn based rapper Excellent DVD: The Killers at Royal Albert Hall. Chock full of good songs, it makes the case that this band, along with Kings of Leon, are America's best live acts. |
Darkmoebius: I am so tired of that argument. Just because 2 things have similarities does not mean they are related. Yes, it is true, similar things were said. However the context was completely different. It is just like the red scare of the 1950's. We laugh at McCarthy now, but it turns out he was right! Rock n' roll is obviously a great musical form, but it DOES lead to degeneration of cultural values. We are seeing that now. It doesn't make Rock N' Roll any less great. Rap has no greatness in it. Just listen to it! |
01-20-10: ChashmalChasmal, I know classical fanatics(not just old ones) who still consider Rock & Roll to be to crap created by untalented and untrained drug addicts & hoodlums. So no, your Red Scare analogy doesn't apply, it's not a generational or historical context thing. There are also Classical fanatics who still think Jazz is crap and lacking in refined musicianship. Many others might say the same about, especially, the blues greats. Here's a funny bit of Rock & Roll history, for those that didn't already know... The first major time Bob Dylan publicly performed Rock-tinged folk with an electric guitar instead of acoustic at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival, folk purists were horrified. It was so offensive and unconscionable to folk singer Pete Seeger, that he grabbed a fire axe and had to be restrained form chopping all the power cords to the band and smashing their amps(according to a documentary I saw on PBS). Supposedly parts of the crowd, other performers, and even the press booed Dylan. Ewan MacColl wrote in Sing Out! folk magazine, "Our traditional songs and ballads are the creations of extraordinarily talented artists working inside traditions formulated over time ... But what of Bobby Dylan? ... a youth of mediocre talent. Only a non-critical audience, nourished on the watery pap of pop music could have fallen for such tenth-rate drivel." Sound familiar? |
At the Newport Folk Festival, Dylan was backed by the electric Paul Butterfield Blues Band. Anyway, I understand why people don't like rap(I can't stand most of it), there's nothing wrong with that. But, to say there is no talent in any artist within the entire genre, or that all of them are hoodlums is either ignorance of inexperience. To claim that one has to play an instrument or read music to be considered a legitimate artist is ridiculous(not to mention quite a few hip-hop artist do both). Rock, blues, Jazz, and Country music have a rich history of great singers and musicians who couldn't do one or both. I have usually found that those who make the most adamant and generalized statements against rap are also those who know the least about it. |
Bongofury - Cool I'll check a couple of those out. I passed on the first Cold War Kids but thought I'd keep my eyes out for new stuff. I've heard a few off the Vampire Wknd and they sound pretty fun. Have to check that out. Don't know if you've heard Dr. Dog's "Fate" but I bet you'd dig it. Timrhu - thanks, man! I'll check it out. "The List" is my only Rosanne Cash so far but I'd love some more of her stuff. |
Entrope Re country music - you realize you are on hip-hop thread turf here? Anyway, we aren't feeling violent today so we will let you slide. Seriously though, I am not a country guy......... but, a couple of weeks back I happened to pick up a random CD - the Zack Brown Band - "The Foundation". No ten gallon hats and wranglers here - the guys look like a white Cypress Hill with beanies and baggy clothes. Anyway, I popped the CD in my car and was very impressed. Every musician in the group is top-notch and the band as a unit is tight as a fly's ear. They have a bit of a southern rock thing going on and every track is worth a listen or ten. I think this is a pretty new band (at least I have never heard of them) and I am sure they will be HUGE. As I say, country isn't my thing but there is no denying it they are a great band - definitely check them out if you aren't already familiar. |
I threw country out since the thread had thrashed around hip-hop & rap quite a lot. I am finding respect for excellence in musicianship, writing, arranging, and vocal performance in all genres as I grow older and less willing to move from my chair. My trouble is the traditional view of "music" that I hold prevents me from recognizing those things in most rap and hip-hop music that is thrust upon me at redlights. Take your shots but note I said the problem lies with me. |
You can find magic in almost any music genre. This year, I have been listening to two African acts from the country of Mali which are heavily rooted in rootsy blues guitar. The albums are by a blind couple, Amadou & Mariam, and a wonderful group called Tinariwen. You can see the direct relationship from Africa to the US Bluses tradition. I don't speak their native tongue but the music has real power and emotion. In the end, this should be the attraction of music. America has produced five American music forms that are unique to these shores, Hawaiian, jazz, blue grass/country, gospel/Soul and hip-hop. All were "outsider" music and all have their succinct charms. I love many of the newer alt country artists. These Americana groups include Calexico, Dave Alvin, the Felice Brothers,Hill Country Revue, Jenny Lewis, Lambchop, Lucinda Williams, Maria Taylor, Neko Case, Okkervil River, Shelby Lynne, Steve Earle and Wilco. Really nice recordings from an audiophile perspective. |
Bongofury Your breadth of musical knowledge never ceases to astound me! Just checked out Zack Brown on Wiki and see they have 3 Grammy awards pending and are the first band to go to number one in the country charts with a debut since Heartland did in 2006. Seems like a good guy alright with his charity work too. Zack's eleven brothers and sisters must be proud. |
Entrope That's all it takes - a little experimenting and an open mind and you will never look back. With regards to hip-hop, just look beyond the radio and you might be pleasantly surprised at what you will find. Like any music you will have to do a bit of digging before you find some diamonds in the rough. I am going through the same thing with jazz right now. I always had a pre-conceived idea that this was a very pretentious genre and after several months exploring I still find I don't like a lot of it, but the stuff I am liking has made it all worthwhile and about 80% of what I have bought in the last 8 months has been jazz. A little reading on the history of a particular genre is also a great way to perk up your interest and I find it makes the listening more enjoyable too. |
Hey Bongofury and Darkmoebius Forgot to mention all the budget bling I brought you back from Brazil. Anyway, just before I headed to Rio airport I had to go by the jewelers to pick it all up. I had us all killer big pendants made up too - all genuine imitation gold. Mine was ready just before I headed to the airport - the chain links are the size of alligator eggs and the medallion is close to the size of an old 45 record. I was so happy when he handed me mine. I looked down at it and was ecstatic when I saw the words "PHAT TOMMY" sparkling in all its iced-out glory. On yours Darkmoebius, I had him bling it out with "DA MOEBSTA" and for Bongofury - "BIG PAPPA". We are going to look great at the Rocky Mountain Hi Fi Show (or whatever they call it), we won't be able to beat the girls off. Wait a minute - are there even girls at these things? There has to at least be a couple of cleaning ladies....don't you think? When my taxi reached the airport I was wearing so much bling they had to transport me into check-in on one of those airport wheelchairs. I checked my luggage in and the girl said my bags were too heavy and informed me that each of the three bags could only weigh 70lbs. I asked how much I was over and she said each case was 350lbs.... and it might be a problem. I explained that they were full of bling for my charity - The Phat Tommy Phoundation and I was going to give it to all the poor kids in my hood and the rest would go off to Haiti. This brought a tear to her eyes and she put a hand on her stomach and leaned slightly forward in the wounded soldier stance and told me what a wonderful man I was. Personally I think she was star-struck and attracted to me and all my bling. It was pretty obvious she had never been in the company of a middle aged man wearing a pin striped suit and so much bling before. Anyway, she let it slide and I told her I would give American Airlines a plug on my next number one rap record, no sponsorship money necessary. All I could think of as I walked away was how much money I was going to make off all the bling selling it for top dollar to the kids in my hood. I had about an hour to kill before my plane took off for San Fran so I decided to get my limp on and and do a few laps of the concourse to give all the airport girls a chance to check me and my bling out and hopefully hound me for my number, or at least an autograph. Now I'm not saying I am Brad Pitt, and maybe my hairline is receding a bit, ok, more than a bit. In fact if it recedes any more I will have no hair left on my arse. However, I did go to the trouble of having the remaining three inch strip of hair that goes horizontally from ear to ear made into corn rows and chicks dig it. After about 35 laps and no numbers I was finally approached..........by two plain clothes guys. The first one looked me and my medallion up and down, flashed his badge and said "you must be Phat Tommy", to which I replied "oh yea, and you must be Albert f***** Einstein, or did your little sidekick Sherlock Holmes over there figure that one out for you" Needless to say within the hour I was laying on the top bunk sleeping with one eye open in case big Bubba decided try anything funny. Oh well, maybe it is right what they all say about us hip-hoppers ending up in jail for 1-99, but as far as I am concerned it was nothing more than a targeted profiling case simply because I had a couple of rap CDs on me. Needless to say, next time I fly I am wearing my Stetson and Wranglers and the only music I will be carrying will be "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy." That song has such "greatness." Well guys, I guess you can tell I'm bored again tonight, plus I know Dmob always gets a kick out of my idiocy. |
Problem is, coming back from somewhere like that you can't help notice the disproportionate amount of women with faces that look like Oakland booty, at least out here in the sticks where I live right now. I think the movie "Deliverance" must have been shot here. My next door neighbor has about two teeth, less hair than me, a wonky eye and a face like a sumo wresters ass....and I think she has taken a liking to me - yikes! Yep, it feels like I have just fallen out of a dream back into a reality nightmare. How much does a one way ticket to Rio go for these days? |
For Bong & Thomas, only the classics will do - "Yeah, baby ... when it comes to females, Cosmo ain't got nothin' to do with my selection. 36-24-36? Ha ha, only if she's 5'3"." |
Hey Bongo, Sorry, I forgot to get back to you re. Donovan's b.day bash at Yoshi's. I am guessing you are coming up to SF for that?? I have to fly out to Spain tomorrow or it would have been great to catch you for a beer and a laugh. I will only be away for 4 days but when I get back I will be scurrying around to get things out of the way as I am taking off out of the country for a couple of months in a few weeks time. Looks like a nice venue - never been there and only found out tonight they had even opened another Yoshi's in the city. Anyway, if you make it up have a great time, and keep the break-dancing to a minimum Big Pappa. Phat Tommy |
Hey Bongo - how's it going brother? Got home last night and went through my CD binders by genre and decided to pop in a little hip-hop (I have been on a jazz thing lately). Oh, the word-play - love it. "The cops and the choppers come to box me in but i've got knowledge of self that's stronger than any cage they can lock me in" Taleb Kweli "The Beast" Love it! |
Time for a classic from Houston(caution: explicit lyrics) and the LA response. |
