When will rap music be less mainstream?
01-09-10: MacdadtexasYou shouldn't make emphatic statements when the facts don't entirely back that up. Led Zeppelin released "The Lemon Song" in 1969 on the Led Zeppelin II album,and it's original writing credits were Jimmy Page and Robert Plant. That particular song "borrows" lyrics from prior blues artists work. The first, second and fourth verses of "The Lemon Song," are clearly recognizable from Howlin' Wolf's original song "Killing Floor". Also is Plant's "Squeeze the lemon 'til the juice runs down my leg" phrase, look to Robert Johnson's 1937 song "Traveling Riverside Blues." Of course, Johnson wasn't the only blues artist to use this type of imagery. In the 1929 song "I Want It Awful Bad," Joe Williams had included the lines "You squeezed my lemon/Caused my juice to run," and Roosevelt Sykes used similar imagery in his 1937 song "She Squeezed My Lemon." Nonetheless, it is highly unlikely Plant/Page created the line on their own. The phrase "you take my money, give it to another man" most likely was taken from "Black Eye Blues" by Ma Rainey. It wasn't until Led Zeppelin WAS SUED BY ARC Records in 1972, and an out of court settlement, that the band was forced to give those blues artists writing credits on Zepp pressings. Honestly, we could give you a long, long, long, list of famous songs and artists in the great age of Rock & Roll who did (what we now) legally consider theft of prior work. Many others were more performer than songwriters and musicians. That doesn't take anything from them, by the way. Of course, back then, it was a bunch of kids doing songs they love. But, in some ways, everyone always knew songwriting credit was where all the money was made. A choice not to list someone meant more money in their own pockets. I should also mention that I liberally "borrowed" all these facts/assertions from this web page |
01-10-10: SitThat is a common misconception by those not experienced with rap/hip-hop. While most popular rap is gangsta or hardcore, the actual genre covers a wide universe that fuses almost every known other musical style within it, including country music. Classical and bluegrass might be the exception. I usually suggest that the uninitiated and curious start out with the jazz-infused rap/hip-hop as an introduction. One thing people have to take into consideration is that some hip-hop/rap is made simply for the flow of the rhythm and rhyme, where the lyrics will mean nothing at all. This isn't unheard of in rock & roll, either. There are plenty of great, classic, rock songs with utter, nonsensical, crap for lyrics. A great example of this is 1993's "Rebirth of Slick (Cool Like Dat)" and "Nickel Bags" by Digable Planets from their cd "Reachin (A New Refutation of Time and Space)" which reached the Top 15 on the Billboard Charts and won the Grammy Award for Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group in 1994. They were one of the early hip-hop acts to fuse jazz samples with funk and vocal delivery which mirrored the style of jazz musicians. Groups like A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, and others approached music from a 180 degree opposite direction of the hardcore gangsta rap of NWA, Ice-t, etc. that was so big at the time. Their movement was about peaceful intellectualism, raps equivalent of Flower Power. Guru's Jazzmatazz Vols 1-4 are considered definitive collections where he collaborated with jazz artists like Branford Marsalis, Freddie Hubbard, Donald Byrd, along with soul vocalists like Chaka Khan on "Watch What You Say". Across the Pond, French artists like MC Solaar were forging their own style jazz and funk infused hip-hop. Solaar's Nouveau Western(from Prose Combat) is one of the classic examples from that period. Solaar ended up collaborating with Guru's original band Gangstarr on Le Tempto At the same time, groups like Arrested Development were taking hip-hop's peaceful intellectualism in a slightly different direction by fusing funky backbeat with more traditional soul & reggae music flourishes. Their lyrics specifically preached non-violence, education, and respect for women. Their cd "3 Years, 5 Months & 2 Days in the Life Of..." broke new ground with it's simplistic, funky, positive style. The songs "Everyday People" and "Tennessee" both reached #1 on the charts, "Mr Wendel" reeached #6, and earned them won two Grammy Awards in 1993 for Best New Artist and Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group, and were also named Band of the Year by Rolling Stone magazine. Other styles of hip-hop/rap exist simply for the lyrics and the music on provides a backbeat for the cadence of delivery. Personally, I consider a lot of Dylan's early works to be like this since I don't like his voice or music. Not saying that a lot of rap artists are on Dylan's level songwriting wise, but neither are a lot of rock artists, either. Although, I do think quite a few early rappers like Public Enemy wrote equally as powerful social commentary at their height. Then, there is whole 'nother segment that simply about self-mocking humor. Just good old funtime party music - rap's equivalent of the B-52's or Van Halen. I'm not suggesting that you, or others that dislike rap, will enjoy or even appreciate the musical styles of these groups, just that the genre is not entirely violence and misogyny-laden. There is tons of highly regarded, well selling, artistic and flat-out funny acts that refute that mindset. I, personally, am not a huge rap/hip-hop fan(more of jazz, rock, hard rock, & alternative guy), but there is lots of stuff that i do enjoy and I always keep an open ear for something new. If anyone likes they style of stuff sampled above, I'm sure there a few of us around here that put together a list of quality songs/cd's to groove to. |
01-10-10: SitWow, that's a tough call, they were pretty damn innovative. I'll have to think about that for a while. That was a uniquely creative time in hip-hop. The others you shared above just don't do it for me.Nothing wrong with that. Hip-hop covers such a wide universe of sounds & styles, here's bound to hits and misses for everyone interested. Lord knows there's a lot of it that I simply can't stand. |
01-11-10: AudiofeilHmmm, off the top of my head: Guns N' Roses "It's So Easy" Ya get nothin' for nothin' If that's what ya do Turn around bitch I got a use for you Besides you ain't got nothin' better to do And I'm bored "Anything Goes" Panties 'round your knees With your ass in debris Doin' dat grind with a push and squeeze Tied up, tied down, up against the wall Be my rubbermade baby An' we can do it all "Used To Love Her" I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her I had to put her six feet under And I can still hear her complain I used to love her, Oo, yeah But I had to kill her I used to love her, Oo, yeah But I had to kill her I knew I'd miss her So I had to keep her She's buried right in my backyard Oh yeah, Oo yeah, whoa, oh yeah I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her She bitched so much, She drove me nuts And now I'm happier this way, yeah Whoa, oh yeah I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her I had to put her, Oo, six feet under And I can still hear her complain Motley Crue "Live Wire" I'll either break her face Or take down her legs Get my ways at will Go for the throat Never let loose "Bastard" Out go the lights In goes my Knife Pull out his life Consider that bastard dead Get on your knees Please beg me, please You're the king of the sleaze Don't you try to rape me Chorus: (Bastard) Consider that bastard dead (Bastard) Won't get screwed again Whoa! Whoa! Bastard Make it quick, blow off his head Got your neck in the noose I got nothing to lose We're really gonna screw you Consider that bastard dead Quick a a shark Beast has its mark You can't beat the dark Don't you try to rape me Goin' in for the kill Take my fist Break down walls I'm on the top tonight "All In The Name Of..." She's only fifteen She's the reason - the reason that I can't sleep You say illegal I say legal's never been my scene I try like hell but I'm out of control All in the name of rock'n'roll For sex and sex I'd sell my soul All in the name of rock Pretty, pretty so innocent She sais you ain't seen nothing yet Brings me a dirty, dirty magazine There she was for all the world to see I try like hell but I'm out of control All in the name of rock'n'roll For sex and sex I'd sell my soul All in the name of rock Says to me daddy Can I have some candy Wanna be your nasty Anytime you want You know you can have me All in the name of rock'n'roll For sex and sex I'd sell my soul All in the name of rock Motorhead "Jailbait" Jailbait Hey baby you´re a sweet young thing Still tied to mommas apron strings I don´t even want to know your age I´m just happy you´re back stage You´re jailbait and I just can´t wait Jailbait baby come on One look baby all I need My decision made at lightning speed I don´t even want to know your name It´s enough to know you feel the same You´re jailbait and I just can´t wait Jailbait baby come on Hey baby know you look so fine Send shivers up and down my spine I don´t care about our different ages I´m an open book with well-thumbed pages You´re jailbait and I just can´t wait Jailbait baby come on Really, it's not that hard to come up with a long, long, list of rock lyrics from gold or platinum selling albums. Punk, which is sub-section of rock, has more than it's share of anti-police and violent lyrics. For the more obscure rock/punk lyrics,there's always GG Allin's "Kill The Police" Lyrics to Kill The Police : Worthless pig-man in your phoney blue uniform You try to tell me what to do but I never will conform In my world there are no limits or laws Kill the police before we’re all robots [Refrain:] Kill the police Kill the whole force Smash the system Destroy the courts [Repeat Refrain 2 Times] On a power trip with your useless authority Your life is nothin' but (..unknown..) I hope you all die on the street today I hope you all die in a deadly way [Refrain 3 Times] It's all a lie what they try and sell you If they can't make a case, they're gonna frame you Wanted or on bail can you ever be free It's time to take action, kill the police [Refrain 3 Times] [Repeat Verse 1] [Refrain 4 Times] |
01-14-10: Dan_edThat was my first laugh of the morning! I'm primarily a rock & jazz guy, trying to learn about classical. Can't get with country, though. There is plenty in Popular music(Pop) that I dislike. Soul and R&B really don't exist in the purer sense, which is too bad. No more Aretha, Roberta, Otis... Instead, they try to pass off Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston as on that level. I thought I'd never start sounding alike a middle aged guy, here I am at 45(n March)and doing just that. |
For Soul/Blues/Folk fans, one of my all time favorite artists (and albums) of the last ~15 years is Ted Hawkins' "The Next Hundred Years". His voice and musical style is a cross between Sam Cooke and Otis Redding, although his songwriting has tinges of Woody Guthrie and Blind Willy Johnson with a touch of Bob Dylan. The entire disc is incredible, but especially check out the songs "Strange Conversation", "Big Things", "Biloxi", "Green-eyed Girl", and especially his A capella cover of John Fogerty's "Long as I Can See the Light". Ted had recording contracts which spanned almost 30 years, but vagrancy, drugs, jail, and alcohol always seemed to undermine his career just as it was about to take off. Over that time, his style changed with the time, incorporating, Blues, Folk, Soul and finally fusing them into something wholly his own. In 1994, he was re-discovered and signed to Geffen Records by producer/A&R rep Tony Berg who backed Ted's beautifully sparse tunes with minimalist musical accompaniment. The cd received widespread critical acclaim and national attention. Rolling Stone Magazine said in it's review: Over five previous records – only two of which are available domestically – Hawkins' reputation with musicians, critics and European audiences has grown, while popular acclaim in his native country remains elusive. Hopefully,The Next Hundred Years, Hawkins' major-label debut, will begin to change that. Years is a passionate collection of gospel, soul, country and blues songs about mortality, perseverance and transcendence that are given credence by the artist's own experiences as an ex-convict and street singer.He toured Europe and North America to ecstatic fan praise and said "that he had finally reached an age where he was glad to be able to sing indoors, out of the weather, and for an appreciative crowd". Sadly, he died of a stroke on New Years day 1 year after making his one hit album. I had the honor to meet and hang out with him little in that short period while working at Geffen. He was one of nicest, most real, people I'd ever met. He left an indelible mark on everyone he came into contact with. After his death, many of his early recordings from the mid-60's and 70's were compiled and released. Check out "The Ted Hawkins Story: Suffer No More" for when his style was similar to early James Brown, Otis Redding, and Sam Cooke circa 1966. |
Thomas, you are killing me! DeDe says you need 20's on your ride, not 26's - DeDe's ride(1:40-2:35 into the video) |
At the Newport Folk Festival, Dylan was backed by the electric Paul Butterfield Blues Band. Anyway, I understand why people don't like rap(I can't stand most of it), there's nothing wrong with that. But, to say there is no talent in any artist within the entire genre, or that all of them are hoodlums is either ignorance of inexperience. To claim that one has to play an instrument or read music to be considered a legitimate artist is ridiculous(not to mention quite a few hip-hop artist do both). Rock, blues, Jazz, and Country music have a rich history of great singers and musicians who couldn't do one or both. I have usually found that those who make the most adamant and generalized statements against rap are also those who know the least about it. |
For Bong & Thomas, only the classics will do - "Yeah, baby ... when it comes to females, Cosmo ain't got nothin' to do with my selection. 36-24-36? Ha ha, only if she's 5'3"." |
Time for a classic from Houston(caution: explicit lyrics) and the LA response. |
Sure, some rap and hip-hop qualifies as art as much as any other form. There is really bad music in every genre, so why should rap be any different? And yes, there are 15+ year old rap albums/cd's that I still play -Digable Planets, NWA, Public Enemy, etc. Do I consider these recordings as timeless as some Coltrane, Miles, or Nat King Cole, etc? No, but I don't put the Eagles, Police, or Elton John in that category, either. Zep, yes, Eagles, no. While I'm at it, plenty of rock artist made it big ripping off others and not giving credit. Do you really think Robert Plant thought up "Squeeze the lemon 'til the juice runs down my leg"? |
I was driving yesterday listening to K-DAY LA and they had a little 1989 to 1991 thing going. This is still a great jam - Hip Hop Hooray And this one changed the game - Me Myself and I |
01-18-10: BongofuryStrange story on how he came to be re-discovered. Hawkins had shifted from performing on the Venice boardwalk to the newer 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. Where he used to sit on his paint bucket and play just happened to be right below the dual-use commercial/condo units at the south end of the street. it just so happened that recording artists/songwriter/musician Michael Penn(brother of actors Sean & Chris) lived in the unit right above. Listening to it all day, day after day, Penn became a huge fan of Hawkins. Penn called a good friend of his, Tony Berg, who had just become an A&R rep at Geffen and said "You have to sign this guy". Berg had to really battle to sign a folk/blues/soul artist on a hard rock/alternative label, but eventually won. He got another band of his, The Wild Colonials, to play all the backing string instruments and write the arrangements on "The Next Hundred Years". After the CD came out, literally scores of famous musicians & songwriters(Red Hot Chili Peppers, Joni Mitchell, Seal) sent word that they had been admiring Hawkins playing for a good decade and were overjoyed he finally got recognition. The was a great turnout for his record release party. Every once in while, I remember to toss on "Hundred Years" and fall in love with it all over again. It is beautiful in it's simplicity. |
01-20-10: ChashmalChasmal, I know classical fanatics(not just old ones) who still consider Rock & Roll to be to crap created by untalented and untrained drug addicts & hoodlums. So no, your Red Scare analogy doesn't apply, it's not a generational or historical context thing. There are also Classical fanatics who still think Jazz is crap and lacking in refined musicianship. Many others might say the same about, especially, the blues greats. Here's a funny bit of Rock & Roll history, for those that didn't already know... The first major time Bob Dylan publicly performed Rock-tinged folk with an electric guitar instead of acoustic at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival, folk purists were horrified. It was so offensive and unconscionable to folk singer Pete Seeger, that he grabbed a fire axe and had to be restrained form chopping all the power cords to the band and smashing their amps(according to a documentary I saw on PBS). Supposedly parts of the crowd, other performers, and even the press booed Dylan. Ewan MacColl wrote in Sing Out! folk magazine, "Our traditional songs and ballads are the creations of extraordinarily talented artists working inside traditions formulated over time ... But what of Bobby Dylan? ... a youth of mediocre talent. Only a non-critical audience, nourished on the watery pap of pop music could have fallen for such tenth-rate drivel." Sound familiar? |
