"Rap sucks although it does provide, in many cases, a career path to 3 squares a day and a warm bed ranging in time from 1 month to 99 years."
This statement reminds me of that ridiculous trial, where the prosecutor tried to claim there were subliminal messages hidden on a Judas Priest record, that convinced two kids to commit suicide. Utter nonsense. |
Macdad
Free lapdances on me. :) Loser |
Hey Bongofury and Darkmobeus - very refreshing to see a couple of obviously well educated and OPEN-MINDED music lovers on here, yes, MUSIC lovers. I listen to everything from jazz to rock to hard core rap and love it all. As far as intelligent rap goes don't forget Common, Atmosphere, Black Star and Talib Kwali (on his own). Bongofury we should hang out - BIG Mike Skinner (Streets) fan here ....profound insight from this kid. Lets not forget another truly great ARTIST - 2Pac!
Only once people are prepared to open their mind regarding music will they get all they can out of it and it is their loss as far as I am concerned. A quick scan of the music for sale on this site will tell you who we are dealing with - Pat Boone, Johnny Mathis, Cliff Richard, Bing Crosby, I mean come on guys, people have been making great music in the last half-century in case you weren't aware, and while rock really has not been able to out-do the 60s and 70s hip-hop has been driving things forward.
The OP suggests that we won't be listening to any of these hip-hop records in 20 years time???? Sorry to tell you we already are and some from 20 years back are as fresh today as they were back then and we will still be listening to the hip-hop classics in 50 years. The greatest thing I ever stumbled on in my life and it changed my whole outlook on music was techno (in a broad sense) and I am so thankful that I was open-minded enough to "get it" - it has been the most rewarding chapter in my musical life and I know there are people reading this now thinking it is all bang, bang, bang. Maybe it is ...... until you really take an interest and it too is ART and millions of people across the globe are hitting up clubs, festivals and parties every weekend and having the musical time of their lives. It is almost sad that many people will never get to experience the buzz that myself and people like Bongofury get to experience simply because of closed-mindedness. I never listened to jazz until recently and the reason I am enjoying it now is because I decided that if so many people are into it then I must be missing something. I opened my mind and now you can find me on a regular basis tearing the Jazz isle to pieces in search of something fresh, at least fresh to me. I DJ internationally for a living and I can tell you there is nothing to destroy your passion for music faster than playing and listening to the same old tracks. The whole rush for most of us is finding fresh music continuously.
Not knocking anybody for "looping" their music from 50 years ago, just don't knock people for, as Mike Skinner puts it, "pushing things forward."
Happy listening to all of you. |
Thomastrouble
Amen to that. I have worked with over 1,000 bands per year in a live concert setting and LOVE all music. It would be a sad day when people dictate personal taste. My 25 and 28 year old children and I are constantly exchanging fresh music. My daughter loves house and techno and married to renowned Bay Area artist Dave Kim, who has fused classic violin over DJ music. I love young bands. On heavy rotation at the moment is The XX, Mos Def, the Throwdowns, Sticky, and the Union Line. |
Sit, nice to see someone willing to explore - you won't regret it! Maybe dip your toes into some "trip-hop" this is a kind of chilled out hip-hop and the Ninja Tunes label have been doing this well for a long time, check them out on the internet, I think they are still around but there is a wide variety of stuff on that label so don't be put off at first glance.
Bongofury, did you know that The Streets first album got onto Rolling Stones best 100 albums of all time and still be considered "underground" too! If anybody is from England you will get more out of this guy very humorously depicting english working class life.Bedroom produced stuff but raw as it gets and if there are any clubbers out there you will know what he is talking about, he has definately lived a bit of that life.
Bongofury, gotta say it again, your knowledge is very impressive - what do you do for a living? Are you also from the Bay Area?
Anyway, good to see all this heated debate, wether I agree or not. For me this is where the real passions should come out - regarding the music itself, as opposed to that extra 2% of sonic quality when listening to it.
For any country folks out there you might want to try Bubba Sparxx "Deliverance". Brilliant Timabaland produced album, witty, not gangsta with a focus more on chickens and dogs in the yard than urban life. This was a hugely critically acclaimed album but commercially, no so. "Dark Days Bright Nights is another masterpiece by him, but forget about "The Charm" when he sold out and nose-dived. |
Just picked up Vampire Weekend's new release - it was released yesterday - I have been liking their sound since their debut.
Hi-Fi snobbery is an evil disease when it blinds us to music. It can affect us all to some degree and I admit to it too! Once you catch the disease then you can lose sight of what is really important.
Here is what Hi-Fi snobbery can become in its worst form:
Hi-Fi snob forks out $20K on a high-end Hi-Fi
Hi-Fi snob gets more snobby and supposes to now be an expert on music
Hi-Fi snob tells everyone else what they should like and what constitutes good music.
Sadly in reality, our "Hi-Fi snob" has never bought more than 100 albums - all mostly from the 70's and 80's high school and college student days. In reality, Hi-Fi snob spends more time fiddling with and talking about gear than really listening to music or expanding musical horizons. Sadly Hi-Fi snob doesn't even play an instrument. The truth is that Hi-Fi snob is not really interested in music but has plenty of disposable income and a huge ego to feed, which manifests itself in glowing lights and cool expensive looking aesthetic components... |
Did they really remove my parody thread? Are you freaking kidding me? Is fun not allowed here? Give me a break! The racist posts can stay but my funny post is taken down...Jeez! |
Please keep the quality rap recommendations coming. I'm sifting through the strange soap opera above for a few music gems for MY musical pleasure. |
Thomastrouble
Based in LA. Love the Bay Area Club scene, including Slide, Ruby Skye, Folsom, Apartment, etc.... |
Shadorne
My feelings exactly. |
Shadorne
You made me spit my coffee back into my cup reading that - brilliant!
What makes it so funny is it is the truth. I have read a few gems on here and that ranks right up there with the funniest.
Signing off this post, I have to go back and read that one more time. |
Can someone please say something controversial. This has been very entertaining so far and I am ready to see some more blood and snot flying. |
Thomas
My wife just read this string and wanted to know about the three strip clubs I own in the San Fernando Valley. I now have an embedded ATC speaker in my crotch. I am okay. Everytime I cough when it hurts, it plays Public Enemy. |
While I acknowledge Rap sells albums I find no appeal in its pounding rhythms and violent lyrics. I have listened to various rap tunes extensively mostly by having them blasted through my car windows from cars next to me at stop lights. I guess rap ballad would qualify as an oxymoron.
I also feel the same about opera and while I don't think opera sells as well as rap I have never been subjected to a 110db aria from the trunk of the Mercedes next to me.
I suppose I would never attend a rap opera.
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" to quote Miss Piggy. |
Bongofury,
I be feeling ya bro. If you need a new crib fo crashin in, complete wit hoes jus holla at ya bouy. Things be poppin owf at ma crib an my hommie just turned me on to some dope christian rap, his band "Big Baby Jesus" be slingin mixtapes all over the hood.....they even better than The Beatles.
Lata |
THE EXCITING SOCIAL LIFE OF HI FI SNOB
Hi Fi snob got married at 23
Hi Fi Snob has never set foot in a club because he got married at 23
Hi Fi Snob will (very occasionally, say every five years) go to a rock concert but afterwards will brag more to his friends about his back-stage pass than the vibe.
Hi Fi Snob thinks he is too old to go to concerts or clubs because he just turned 24
Hi Fi Snob has never been young. He has done "old people" stuff since his teens.
Instead of going out dancing on a Saturday night Hi Fi snob prefers to sit on the sofa bobbing his head from side to side to Carly Simon.
Hi Fi Snob criticizes people over 25 for going out to clubs suggesting they are "trying to relive their youth"
Hi Fi Snob taps a police officer on the shoulder at the Niel Young concert and says "look officer - I just saw that guy smoking a joint."
Hi Fi Snob tells his kids "Don't get me wrong, I too was a wild partier back in the day"
Hi Fi Snob puts his hand in the back pocket of his neatly pressed trousers to find a business card, then pushes his tie (emblazoned with Stanford logos) to the side to dig in one of the two little pockets of his knit cardigan.
He finally pulls out out a business card and says "hey young fellow, if you want to listen to some real music from the 70s call me up. There will be wine and cheese......it's gonna be absolutely craaaaazy"
Hi Fi Snob loves to sit on the sofa listening to John Denver while playing with Rubic's Cube, because just like him..........it's SQUARE.
|
Oh man, did this thread go off the rails. But, it's getting pretty damn funny, too. |
Darkmooebius
What's a bored guy to do?
I don't want to see this thread dying, but if it gets any quieter I am going to be sitting here taking jabs at myself.
Out of boredom I jumped onto some others but, not to say I found them uninteresting after this, I just found them as interesting as sitting alone in an empty racket ball court while eating a ton of rice. |
This is a humorous read! I know how you "rappers" feel, even though I don't care for the genre. And, yes, I have tried. It is just doesn't do anything for me. Perhaps that makes me ignorant and uneducated? :-) Most audiophiles don't have much if any respect for music other than classical and maybe jazz. I listen to rock, classic rock, prog rock, goth, techno, country, bluegrass, and sometimes throw on some jazz. Rarely classical, but there are times when I enjoy it. So you can imagine the looks and comments I get from most professed audiophiles. So reign in the negative labels please. Some of you are starting to sound exactly like "them"! It really is ok to form your own opinions and let others do the same.
And don't get me started on the sound of audiophile gear! 99% of which can't play our kinds of music worth a damn.
|
Okay,I'll get this thing jump started again.To quote Gregg Allman from an MTV or VH1 interview(can't remember exactly)...."RAP? Short for CRAP." Let the festivities begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Thomas
CLASSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May be the funniest post in this string. Unless you count the ones from the morons who actually think that hip hop can be wished away because they don't like it. |
I am now playing rap music in my car at 100 dbs, just to intimidate other rock-loving Audiogoners. It appears to be working. I already see eight posts complaining of my ways. |
Intimidate rockers?!?! Bring it on kids. WE were intimidating your grandparents! :-) |
01-14-10: Dan_ed
Intimidate rockers?!?! Bring it on kids. WE were intimidating your grandparents! :-) That was my first laugh of the morning! I'm primarily a rock & jazz guy, trying to learn about classical. Can't get with country, though. There is plenty in Popular music(Pop) that I dislike. Soul and R&B really don't exist in the purer sense, which is too bad. No more Aretha, Roberta, Otis... Instead, they try to pass off Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston as on that level. I thought I'd never start sounding alike a middle aged guy, here I am at 45(n March)and doing just that. |
Darkmoebius....Check out Charles Walker and the Dynamites if you want a dose of old school soul."Kaboom!" from 2007 and "Burn It Down" from 2009 on Outta Sight Records.Kinda reminds me of James Brown,lotta funky soul!!!!!! |
Entrope
No, no, no - you are doing it all wrong. Critical listening at traffic lights really is not the way to go, especially with your windows up. I used to do this all the time but decided to spend all the money I was losing on parking tickets and traffic violations on hip-hop CDs instead. I swear to god, it sounded way better on my own home system.
Now i have all these guys with Audiogon stickers on their cars pulling alongside ME for a quick listen. One even made his fingers into an "A" shape and flashed me the Audiogon gang sign.....pretty scary. I hear there has been a spate of drive-by listenings out in the burbs recently, that is why me and HI FI snob prefer to stay at home on the sofa whacking off over John Denver.
Be safe, and keep it real....peace out! |
Hey guys, what happened to the original poster? Seems he started a brawl, ducked under his keyboard and ran out the back door when it all hit the fan. My buddy said he saw him a couple of streets away, down an alley with a boom-box practicing his MC Hammer dance moves. |
Tpreaves
If I am not mistaken, Gregg Allman is known in music circles as 1) a cokehead 2) a wife beater 3) a person who had a abusive relationship with an underage porn star that later committed suicide. Next. |
T.PREAVES
Who is that - is that that old dude from the Allman Smothers? |
Bongofury.....BINGO you win,that's him,the one and only.He also ratted out one of his roadies to save his ass from going to prison.No ones perfect!!!!!!!!!(LOL)He is also one of the most respected musicians in the business regardless of his obvious misgivings.Evidently he doesn't like rap music and that's his choice,just as it is your choice to like it.
Poor Thomas was feeling lonely because no one was talking to him so I just stirred the pot up for him.I didn't want him choking on his rice.
Thomastrouble...I'm glad you have found a friend that shares your enthusiasm with rap music.Friends are a great thing to have.Have you bought any more equipment lately?You do know the new Absolute Sound's recommended systems are out,don't you?BTW,did you ever figure out how to connect your speaker cables to your amp?As you say,keep it real and peace out. |
No, no. You hip hop, car jockeys need to learn what bass is supposed to sound like. Not that LF distortion noise almost every one of you are so proud of. THAT is what people are repulsed by. It's not the volume, it is the lack of sounding anything like music. Maybe there are some good tunes in there, but they keep getting drowned out by all of the parts rattling around on your rice rockets. Come back and give me a listen when you can reproduce a decent 20Hz tone without the car farts getting in the way. :-) |
Tpreaves
We hip hop and electronica fans be simpletons. I just bypass the whole thing by simply adjusting the volume on my car stereo to 10. At home, I simply plug and unplug my headphones into my iPod. Everything else seems a waste of time between the enjoyment of music and gear. :0 |
Funny the way this whole string reads. To be honest, I would have expected the intellectual, well thought out and researched posts to come from the rock/classical camp. Instead, all I am seeing from this side is "two liners" and grossly ignorant statements with absolutely no substance. The ones with even less to say but with more word-count have ran off with their tails between their legs after they were confronted by a smidgeon of intelligence.
OK, hope this ruffles a few feathers (hehe).
Oh, by the way, HI FI Snob is having a party at his house on Saturday, no chicks though. I RSVPd suggesting that he label all his components with REALLY big price stickers (cables and all) to save his breath and to give him a little more time to swan around his pad listening to all the ass-kissing male guests complimenting him on his system, which was the whole point of throwing the party in the first place. Time to let your hair down, It's gonna be absolutely craaaaaaaaazy. Dress code - suit and tie.
OK, I admit it, not much work to do around here today so I thought I would throw a few more cats in among the pigeons for a bit of fun. |
TPREAVES,
Yep, got it all down - even the bi-amping. Piece of cake in the end. Still working on room treatment issues though.
No, don't point me in the direction of any new gear, enough is enough and I am too easily tempted. |
Thomastrouble...Glad to hear that.This stuff can de daunting sometimes.BTW,you might want to look into a 12-step program to help out with that rap addiction that is haunting you!!!!!!!!!!!! I heard of a clinic in Canada that will put you on a 24/7 dosage of Tiny Tim and Yoko Ono that is guaranteed to wean you off that rap nonsense.Of course listening to Tiny Tim and Yoko Ono 24/7 might make you want to stop listening to music all together!!!!!!!! Then you can sell all of your equipment on A'gon for half price to help pay for the treatment!!!!!!
Okay,enough's enough,I gotta go listen to my Gregg Allman and Cher album.Later. |
Tpreaves
Tiny Tim - now there's a blast from the past! I will give the treatment a miss though. Hip-hop accounts for probably 20% of what I listen to these days, I don't actually have a favorite genre at all - good music is good music whatever the genre and however it's made. If I wasn't so open-minded then maybe I would take you up on the treatment thing. Have you ever thought about checking yourself in?
I really don't understand why so many people on here have a fly in their ear over hip-hop. What I do suspect though is that something else is coloring their judgement (no pun intended) and it has nothing at all to do with music.
If I went through your music collection I am sure I would like a great percentage of it, maybe even latch onto some of the styles that normally wouldn't float my boat. I consider myself lucky in that sense. Obviously, some of the stuff I would pass on, but I could never see myself reacting towards it with out and out hatred like some of the above posters. Put it this way - if I was offered a night out, free beer all night to hang out with any 3 or 4 guys on this thread for a great time, fun conversation and a good old laugh I would have a hard time selecting more than three or four drinking buddies from the thread (don't worry Bongofury, the barmaid said yours is coming right up). What I am saying is, these reactions say more about the whole person than simply their taste in music. |
Back to the original question - Digable Planets - Blowout Comb - Bar none the best underground hip-hop album of all times. Lyrics, beats, samples and scratching, all A1.
That said. MC Hammer? If you like MC Hammer try listening to Rick James, Super Freak. It will sound very familiar...
That said here are some recommendations some may have already been provided by others above:
- Tribe Called Quest (from New-York not LA) all there albums are great, my favorite is midnight marauders.
- The Pharcyde, best tracks are runnin'(beat is based on Stan Getz Samba sample) and passin me by.
- De la Soul
- Common the album Ressurection, specifically the scratching on the title track, plus various samples throughout from Roy Ayers' "everybody loves the sunshine"
- People Under the Stairs
- Mos Def
And the list goes on... wait one more!
MC Solar, his two first ablums are his best, preferrably the first "Qui sème le vent récolte le tempo", the Track Caroline, is the finest heart-break hip-hop ballad of all times... Only French rhymes can accurately portray the emotional heart break you feel when you find your girl sharing a cigarette with another man in the subway. Truly poetic.
What makes hip-hop/rap good. IMHO, good poetic lyrics, not just words that rhyme. Rappin' about b!tches and hoes should be a crime... (pun intended). Original musical beats, not simply slowing down or speeding up or reversing James Brown's Funky Drummer. Samples that are relevant and credited to the original artists from who composed them. And DJ that can Scratch (Turntabalism).
One more point, if I were to listen to only hip-hop/rap I wouldn't need hig-end audio system. Generally, there are no "musical instruments" used, so the detail, emotion sound stage isn't there. So whether listening on an IPOD or $50k system the marginal difference would not warrant the investment.
But without hip-hop I would not have not learned to appreciate much of the Jazz, Funk and Soul which I enjoy on my system daily.
Finally, it was my passion as a Dee-Jay which has given rise to my interest in the this Audiophile hobby (or is it an addiction?). |
Thanks Nick, you have now joined the united front of Thomas, Shadorne, Dark Mob and myself. Remember, always outnumbered but never outgunned. Thomas is suggesting we meet for beers. I am down with it. |
Nicksr
Thanks for that. You have got me a little curious now. I bought one Digable Planet's CD a long time back, can't remember the name and am too lazy to go and look now. It was was too hippy for me and I never looked more into any of the rest of their stuff as it really turned me off, but I will look into Blowout Comb....you never know.
I used to listen to a lot more hip-hop until I got my system but the sound quality on most records (CDs) ruined it a bit for me. I am fairly new to the Hi End audio thing and am in my honeymoon period I guess and am dabbling with all kinds of music, but it has to be well recorded or I get turned off right away on my new system.
As much as I really the music I already own I have always been on a mission for new stuff and never buy, say, rock classics that I am already familiar with. Being a DJ like yourself I love discovering new stuff for me and new new stuff for the crowd, say, two months old max. In my scene which is techno/house two months is getting old unless I am playing old tracks that nobody else has then I can get away with it.
Have to disagree a bit on the soundstage, emotion thing not being there. The soundstage can definitely be there and the emotion too but I agree most stuff doesn't have the sound quality as in a lot of organic music. |
There is a lot of really good music recorded on analogue recording equipment. Out of England, I can recommend James Hunter (sings like Sam Cooke) and Richard Hawley ("Coles Corner"). In the US, I can highly recommend Birdmonster (who records in the studio where REM made their first two records), Eli "Paperboy" Reed and Raphael Saadiq. For rap, I highly recommend the Roots, De La Soul, Arrested Development and the Beastie Boys (especially the "In sound from way out"). |
For Soul/Blues/Folk fans, one of my all time favorite artists (and albums) of the last ~15 years is Ted Hawkins' "The Next Hundred Years". His voice and musical style is a cross between Sam Cooke and Otis Redding, although his songwriting has tinges of Woody Guthrie and Blind Willy Johnson with a touch of Bob Dylan. The entire disc is incredible, but especially check out the songs "Strange Conversation", "Big Things", "Biloxi", "Green-eyed Girl", and especially his A capella cover of John Fogerty's "Long as I Can See the Light". Ted had recording contracts which spanned almost 30 years, but vagrancy, drugs, jail, and alcohol always seemed to undermine his career just as it was about to take off. Over that time, his style changed with the time, incorporating, Blues, Folk, Soul and finally fusing them into something wholly his own. In 1994, he was re-discovered and signed to Geffen Records by producer/A&R rep Tony Berg who backed Ted's beautifully sparse tunes with minimalist musical accompaniment. The cd received widespread critical acclaim and national attention. Rolling Stone Magazine said in it's review: Over five previous records – only two of which are available domestically – Hawkins' reputation with musicians, critics and European audiences has grown, while popular acclaim in his native country remains elusive. Hopefully,The Next Hundred Years, Hawkins' major-label debut, will begin to change that. Years is a passionate collection of gospel, soul, country and blues songs about mortality, perseverance and transcendence that are given credence by the artist's own experiences as an ex-convict and street singer. He toured Europe and North America to ecstatic fan praise and said "that he had finally reached an age where he was glad to be able to sing indoors, out of the weather, and for an appreciative crowd". Sadly, he died of a stroke on New Years day 1 year after making his one hit album. I had the honor to meet and hang out with him little in that short period while working at Geffen. He was one of nicest, most real, people I'd ever met. He left an indelible mark on everyone he came into contact with. After his death, many of his early recordings from the mid-60's and 70's were compiled and released. Check out "The Ted Hawkins Story: Suffer No More" for when his style was similar to early James Brown, Otis Redding, and Sam Cooke circa 1966. |
Hey Bongo.
I am off to Brazil toaday for a week. I usually have to get to the airport a lot earlier than others. My jewelry keeps setting the buzzers off. By the time I take off all my necklaces and eight rings I am already cutting it close to catch my flight, and don't even get me started with the baseball hat and bandana.
They are always giving me a hard time for having all those batteries in my boom box too. Then there is the mandatory airline official who has always has something negative to say when I start breakdancing in the departure lounge.
I called Hertz in Rio and not one of the cars in their fleet come with 26 inch rims - can you believe that!
Anyway, the honeys on Copacabana beach will make it all worthwhile.
Oh, and don't worry, I won't forget to pick you up all that budget bling you asked me for.
Catch you later. |
Thomas, you are killing me! DeDe says you need 20's on your ride, not 26's - DeDe's ride(1:40-2:35 into the video) |
Waaaazup Dmob
DeDE be trippin, na, I wanna be lookin dowyyyyyn from mae whip at them Agon mofs, not up.
Imma steal me one when I get to Rio......ain't no shame in mae game. |
DJ TT
Those Brazialian girls are fly, and baby likes back! |
TT
Dwizzzle deezle, those rims sizzle |
Foh-schnizzin', Bongofury |
Sit -
+1 to Guru,the Roots, and MC Solaar. Good stuff.
A couple others you may want to check out are;
Soul Position's "Things Go Better With RJ and AL".
I heard them live on KEPX and although I don't listen to much rap, I was impressed with their energy and showmanship. Interestingly, they are more pissed about the current direction of rap than anyone here and express it well. No that doesen't mean they yell more. Fun group with some good tunes and intelligent lyrics. Check out "Hand me downs" refering to all the great music that has come before and asking what we will hand down to future generations.
D'Angelo's Voodoo
is a couple of years old now but was a couple of years ahead of its time when it came out in 2000. The great studio bassist Pino Palladino (who some of you may know as the sub for the Ox on the Who's tour just after he passed) did the low end work on the album and did some fantastic stuff. Its a very dense album in terms of rhythm. Many of the fills and horn hits where the beat is pushed or slips in John Mayer's Continuum such as in "I Don't Trust Myself ..." come from Pino's work with D'Angelo. If you like that album, you may find "Voodoo" interesting. At the very least its a good chance to listen to a great player in two very different settings.
I'm going to get back to my Calexico! Happy listening! |
Voodoo, now that record is the bomb. Sad that D'Angelo has retired from the scene, but that one holds up. As for Calexico, one of the best groups ever. Have liked everything they have done, including the Black Light and Feast of Wire. |
RAP is not music as far as I'm concerned. You have to be able to read music to make it. How do you even hear RAP music? Do they play it on the radio? I haven't heard that crap since the 90's. And about American Idol. If you watch it, we're never going to be able to get rid of it. Do our future a favor and don't watch American Idol. |
