What is the Silliest Accessory You Have Ever Seen.
@roxy54 , I saw him 1976 in Montreal at the Forum an again in 1984 at the Winchester Centrum. The 76 concert was in the early Terry Bozio years when he was still a wild teenager and played in his underware. He insisted that cloths slowed him down which has merit I suppose. For those of you who do not know who he is Terry is one of the 10 greatest drummers alive today. His drum set is twice the size of Neil Peart's (RIP). @lewm , I was just making some suggestions in case you wanted to hear what he was really about. The Yellow Shark is Neoclassical and at times very complicated. It is performed by a group of very talented classical musicians. It is a taste of where he was headed had he not died of prostate cancer. He claims his greatest influence was Edgard Verese' The Yellow Shark has my favorite version of G Spot Tornado. By the way the recording and mastering are fabulous. G Spot was originally programmed on a synclavier. It first appeared on Jazz From Hell a complete album of programmed music. You can google it. Then imagine classical musicians playing it note for every darn note. Nothing you will see at the Cirque Du Soleil is as amazing. Every audiophile should have this record. It is audiophile candy. |
Never mind. Perhaps what is really silly ( for say the least. ) is that m gentleman who posted:Sorry but correcting a post in a 5 minutes interval after realizing we had made a mistake in our own description dont make the writer silly... But posting that like a proof of his stupidity surely dont speak so great about the poster... Try not rejecting your problem on ME..... |
@mijostyn : Never mind. Perhaps what is really silly ( for say the least. ) is that m gentleman who posted: "" I listen eyes open in my dark room and it is better for imaging perception because i.....""" and " 3 minutes " latter this same gentleman posted: " I listen eye open half time only and not in a complete dark room..." R. |
Hi mijostyn, Yes, It's much more fun to have things in common. I was fortunate to see Frank perform twice. He has so much music, and I only have a small sampling. Grand Wazoo Overnight Sensation 200 Motels Zappa Wazoo We're only in it for the Money Just Another Band from LA Shut Up and Play yer Guitar Hot Rats Live at the Fillmore |
Mahgister, To answer a question with an insult to the intelligence of the person who asked the question is not helpful or informative.You are right and i apologize another time for being impatient or rude to you... But in this thread i have been mocked often then....my neuron short circuited... I deeply regret my tone with you.... Your question was genuine... In a word, because it is a complex question.... For Penrose itself it is the totality of the cosmos quantum stuff that work his way in the microtubules... i will not repeat with my bad english what you can read in this short introductory article: This is the introduction: « The ‘Orch OR’ theory (Hameroff & Penrose, 1996a, 2014) attributes consciousness to quantum computations in microtubules inside brain neurons. Quantum computers process ‘superpositions’ of possibilities (quantum bits or ‘qubits’) which unify by entanglement, evolve and compute, until reduction, or ‘collapse’ to definite output states. Nobel laureate Sir Roger Penrose (1989) proposed that reduction occurred spontaneously due to an objective threshold in the fine-scale structure of the universe (‘objective reduction’, ‘OR’) at time t = ħ/EG, where ħ is the PlanckDirac constant, and EG the gravitational self-energy of the superposition. At each such OR moment, Penrose further proposed, random (proto-) conscious moments of experience occur, composed of basic ‘qualia,’ the most specific scientific proposal for phenomenal experience (the ‘hard problem’) yet put forth (Hameroff & Penrose, 1996b). Were there ‘orchestrated’ quantum computers and qubits in the brain which could reduce by OR to produce full, rich conscious moments?» https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/17588928.2020.1839037?needAccess=true& Penrose could be wrong for sure it is only daily science... But anyway the paradigm of the " brain produce consciousness" is dead.... By all account of changing waves of information coming from many fields.... That is my point... My best to you from my heart.... |
Can you get it that I am NOT criticizing or dismissing Zappa's music? I am only saying that most people are not so familiar with his music as they are with his persona or his appearance, or both of those. And it's only my opinion; I don't insist on the absolute accuracy of that observation. I have no stats to back it up. Mahgister, To answer a question with an insult to the intelligence of the person who asked the question is not helpful or informative. Also, please leave dear Groucho out of this. What is the exact opposite of "production of consciousness BY the brain"? Where can consciousness come from if not the brain? Leave out spiritual or religious allusions. |
Raul, this is a silly game. You keep moving the goal posts. Less visual interference is less whether you get it by turning down the lights, turning them off, or closing your eyes. Humans see poorly in low light conditions we are diurnal creatures. Next you are going to tell me we are nocturnal. I've got news for you. Lights are a very recent innovation. Next you will tel men cave men had fires. True, but not for the thousands we were first evolving as primitive primates. @roxy54 , looks like we have something in common. Do you have all of the "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" disc's? The Grand Wazoo is a great one. Chungas Revenge is another of my favorites |
There exist 10 to the power of 8 microtubules by neurons....One hundred millions...These subtle cylinders shape are the seat of non traditional algorithmical process in the brain, quantum calculations, and we know that the consciousness is not produced at the gross scale of the neurons by traditional networks descriptions... «Your brain is the cosmos itself dear »-Groucho Marx https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/17588928.2020.1839037?needAccess=true |
Yes, I can be out dated but even that and even your information you don’t answer yet where is the electrical source of the human been, not neuro-transmitters or nervous terminations and the like but the electrical source: from where is developed. Not sure what you are getting at (the electrical source). The power source is chemical. Signalling is electrical, electro-chemical and chemical. The brain is not very good at multi-tasking, not even your wife's no matter what she tells you. Reducing sensory input in one area allows focus in another area. It is why people to tell you to shut up when golfing, even though swinging a club is not an auditory action. |
@mijostyn : "
Listening to music in a dark room (all lights off) is the same as listening with your eyes closed " No, is way different because our eyes adapted very fast to the dark room and then we will " see ". Yes, I can be out dated but even that and even your information you don't answer yet where is the electrical source of the human been, not neuro-transmitters or nervous terminations and the like but the electrical source: from where is developed. In the other side: eyes open or eyes close is not what determines what we listen and we listen " sounds " generated by music instruments that produce pressure waves in the air and that's what we perceives. R. |
lewm, All of his silly (but clever) lyrics aside, Frank Zappa was very creative and loved to move out in different directions and try different things. Try some early things like Freak Out, or them later like Overnight Sensation. A more instrumental album that is a real keeper is The Grand Wazoo. I listen to it frequently. Frank was really smart about one thing from the beginning of his career, much like Ian Anderson and Ozzy Osbourne, he always surrounded himself with top talent, like Ruth Underwood, and always great drummers like Aynsley Dunbar and Ralph Humphrey. |
He listen with eyes open in a dark room,I listen eye open half time only and not in a complete dark room... There is a thin light that make me able to spot location between me and the room disposition... I only speak about my experience here not science at all... I oberved that eyes opened completely with this information about the body location the link between the music imaging in particular is modified, in some way improved in relation with the perceiving body then in a different space than the purely musical dimension...more a sound space for the perceiving body than a musical space in itself... But closing the eyes increase timbre perception for me make the imaging emerging in his own musical space with no more so direct reference to the perceptive body....More a pure consciousness perception...more music than sound...If it make sense... I like the 2 ways..... But i prefer to listen always in a dark room, with orange thin light diffusing his aural atmosphere.... I use himalayan salt lamps...I will not say here that the salt crystal "OBJECTIVELY" improves at peanuts cost the atmosphere of listening but it improves it even if it is in a hypnotic and placebo way..... Test is simple place them near speakers listen and remove them.... Here is one of my experiment that i can not be sure if it is placebo or not but the effect is there.... Placebo is also a TOOL to use by wise doctor... But the improvement is there illusory or not....Myjostyn will be happy with this example.... 😁 i give him some help the poor.... |
@lewm I suggest you get a copy of The Yellow Shark. There are also re releases of Hot Rats and Uncle Meat out now. These predate the Flo and Eddie era when his performances started getting R ratings. If you care to see a live performance get the DVD ROXY The Movie. This features what I think is one of his most gifted small units including George Duke, Chester Thompson, Ruth Underwood, Napoleon Murphy Brock and Ralph Humphry. If you like drums and percussion in a jazz like setting you will really like this. I mentioned frank Zappa in relation to Staying Alive from Saturday Night Fever because he perpetually made fun of Disco music. Raul, I afraid you are very wrong about this. We know a lot more than you think about the human brain and we are learning more every minute. Because of the prevalence of Alzheimer's disease there has been an explosion of research over the past 10 years. I have been to three conferences on exactly this subject. You will see the benefits of this in medical practice shortly. I am talking from experience. You are not. Yu are making assumptions which are outdated. Listening to music in a dark room (all lights off) is the same as listening with your eyes closed, no visual distraction. In many situations it is difficult to turn all the lights off. Or I'm just being lazy and don't want to get up and turn off the lights. In Collage we use to get stoned, turn off all the lights and listen to stuff like Tubular Bells. Actually, I think I was tripping once. |
About normal activity of mammal (rat) working as usual without all the brain matter and the rest deformed but with no impediment in his normal working just normal to old age........ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53042-3 There is the SAME phenomena observed on human...I have lost my link for the time being...There even exist a human with non average I.Q. a mathematician that work normal with a very great % of his brain lost....This was discovered in the midst of non related medical examination .... These facts are unknown to most people or under the rug in some "scientist" circle, because the actual paradigm in materialist science is the production of the consciousness BY the brain.... Penrose-Hameroff model of consciousness, the only serious one at this hour, predict the exact opposite... the brain absolutely not produce consciousness it is the reverse...it is in fact more complicated but i cannot enter in these details here....The only important fact is that in this model the brain dont produce the consciousness the memory is not located IN the brain at all.... One word of caution: these observed facts dont negate the impact of a well structured brain in heralthy shape for the normal working in life... These facts relativize simple what is the absolute subordination order: brain/matter domination over consciousness or Consciousness domination over brain/matter....These dynamic of subordination is way more complex than simplistic dogmas decrees... Thats all.... True or not, the Penrose-Hameroff model is the only one encompassing scientific facts at all scale from quantum to human anesthesia phenomenon on patient.... We do not need even this model in true science now to hypothetized with seriousness that consciousness is the only phenomena , even the cosmos is a paraphenomon to this one... Reading in all fields help to think..... Sorry dudes, mystics are more wise than average electors in general, all countries included.....But this is news to only those who rarely think.... 😊 When i was young i arrived at the conclusion that only 2 categories of disciplines or fields of study are devoid of most of the general stupidity of the human race: the mathematicians and the mystic, not engineeers or religious people, dont confuse the 2 they are not related except weakly... You know why? Mystics and mathematicians live ONLY for truth....Nothing else. no money, no power interested them.... Except the invevitable rare fraudsters among them...They constitute the most coherent mind there is on this apes planet...True observer of nature comes after these 2.... Goethe is my first model, Darwin in second for me....but the 2 were lonking for truth.... I read more about those 2 species and their subject than about each other fields.... What is marvellous is some musicians balance in themselves both of these field: Bach for example and many others.... My best to all.... |
Yes, I don’t know Zappa’s music, and I do know him by sight and by some of his clever thoughts. I probably should have confined my statement. For example, I could have said, I bet more people know Zappa by his eccentric looks than by his music. But maybe I am just a bit too old to have soaked up his music at its zenith. |
Dear @mijostyn : "
It is just the way we are wired. This explains some of the brilliance of some musicians like Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles.." You are just " talking " because the continuous electrical brain activity is totally unknow for the stientifics, no one knows exactly how the brain is " wired ". In disease as ephilepsia the only real fact that a neurologist has is that the electrical activity is way higher than in normal condition but the scientifics/neurologist do not knows what is the source that cause that higher electrical brain activity and the person can't recover his health. Now, a human been that born or at early years gone blind by natural necessity of that human been his brain starts to develops different paths to help by him self and that develops means to make the other human been senses alot more sensitive and way improved to a degree that that blind human been almost can " see ". But you are not blind and all over your life your brain runned in normal way where your eyes are open all the time you are awake and the brain did not developed your other senses at the level of a blind person ( where all his senses were improved over time. ) and what you think is a better listen quality your ears is heavy weigthed by your own " imagination " because you want that things happens that way. Please read again @mahgister post about. He listen with eyes open in a dark room, good and similar to what I do when I want to test in deep or fine tunning system or an audio item. R. |
Raul, with modern imaging techniques we know a lot more about the brain's function than you think. Most of the research is centered around Alzheimer's disease. When you stimulate the brain a certain way specific areas of the brain light up showing they are functioning at a higher rate than other parts. We have known what areas of the brain usually do under normal circumstances for a long time. It is what happens under unusual circumstances that is interesting like what happens to your hearing when your eyes are closed. If you have been blind from a young age almost your entire visual cortex, the occipital lobes in the back of your brain are donated to hearing. These areas are three times larger than the area usually used for hearing in the left temporo-parietal lobe. Obviously most musical geniuses have their vision but there are blind musicians that are just extraordinary like Stevie Wonder. You need to listen to him when he was 12 ears old! He was called Little Stevie Wonder back then. There are recordings of his early performances. Amazing. |
Like usual you miss the point.... Nobody contest the fact that listening with closed eyes improve concentration... You are contested about negating the fact that listening sometimes eyes open, VARYING the closing or the opening of the eyes made us perceive the imaging differently, especially in the dark... I listen eyes open in my dark room and it is better for imaging perception because in this way you own the advantage linked to the fact of not being distracted and you perceive the imaging better because you eyes are open in the dark room and you are more conscious of your body location in relation to the music... Reality is always more subtle then what we can proclaim or negate.... I just listen, writing this now eyes open, Haydn quatuor, my imaging is so good i dont even need to close the eyes... «Sometimes dark, sometimes light, always colors»- paraphrasing Goethe |
Rauliruegas, you bet. Most of time my eyes are closed. Some people are entertained by watching the musicians. I am not. I prefer to take in the musical event. This is at classical concerts only. At rock concerts the sound is mono at best and very loud. There is now usually a light show worth watching not to mention the antics of the musicians. Roxy 54, you have no understanding of the neurosciences. I do not know it all. I just usually know my limits unlike some people so, it seems like arrogance but it is not. You can pick out audio details better without visual interference. It is just the way we are wired. This explains some of the brilliance of some musicians like Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Art Tatum. You can argue all you want but the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and there is not a darn thing you or anyone else can do about it. Now, you can listen to music with your eyes open all you want, most people do, but if you want to tune your system to the highest level you need to close your eyes and concentrate on exactly what the system is doing down to minute detail. Many people do not know how good a system can get because they have not heard high end systems set up correctly. They have no basis for comparison. Many if not most concerts are not a good comparison. Classical concerts and acoustic jazz quartets make wonderful comparisons. Concerts where you are close up to acoustic instruments. String quartets are perfect. Beethoven's early and middles Quartets by the Quartetto Italiano are perfect for comparison to the real thing. Another favorite is Cherubini's Quartets by the Melos String Quartet. Some popular music can be recorded as if the instruments were naturally layered out in front of you but most are surrealistic and can not be used for critical evaluation of a system. When listening to a live string quartet my eyes are closed for most of the concert. I am listening to the individual instruments and the interplay between them. Listening to a string quartet is like watching great figure skaters. You can't keep your eyes closed at a Nine Inch Nails show. Your eyelids are blasted back over your ears. No, really you would miss half the show with your eyes close. At home there is nothing to see. You need to put on something like Weather Reports Mysterious Travelers, turn off the lights and let it wash over you at 95 dB. Quite an experience, an event in your own home. |
Dear @mijostyn : ""
Music always sounds better with the lights out "" That could means that when you attended to a music hall where always ligths are on at the stage and you are listening say the Beethoven 9th are you listen all the score with your eyes closed? If yes, then you are very well trained about but please tell me which specific and critical differences for the " better " can we achieve and listen in true if any? Human been brain is almost unknowed in its whole " operation " and how " react " against any single every kind of stimulation to any of our senses. If we close the eyes inmediatly our brain " produce " several kind of " images " that could me different every time we do it and depends on our age and all the information the brain has in " stock " information accumalated at each single milsecond of all those aged years. How can we avoid those facts for the brain can't do that and concentrates only and only in what we are listening/music when we are so sensitive to any stimulation even other kind of very tiny noises that always exist at our place? Btw, scientific evidence says no one knows not even 20% of the human been brain. We can't predict its behavior. R. |
I agree with myself twice.. eyes open and eyes closed. Eyes Open gives you a sense of space and proportions to other objects in the room When I sense that my stage is slightly left or right and then adjust the balance the vocalist in the center ...half of that image is taller than the other half. Strange but true. I then re center the balance control the center image comes together in height. Tom |
Narrow mind are unable to understand subtleness of phenomena... Music is easy to focus on eyes closed for all people, but opening eyes modify the relation we entertain with imaging....I said modify not necessarily improve... Then listening eyes opened can make sense ....To accentuate not the perception of timbre (eyes closed is better) but for modifying our relation with imaging, in particular our relation between sound and our body location .... It is not science, i will let narrow mind think they speak for science itself, it is only my experience in my listenings experiments.... |
"If your system does not sound better with your eyes closed you have work to do." mijostyn, I truly have empathy for your past coworkers and friends. You are the archetypal inflexible know-it-all. Just because science favors lights-out doesn't mean others can't process musical input just as effectively with the lights on. |
