What is the order of importance of the parts of an analogue rig?

Hi,
all have to be of good qality but if order is needed, turntable, tonearm, quality of lp, cartridge, phono stage, cables.

Where can you get the most improvement from a change in one category?

From whichever one is the worst. Sorry, but its true. And I know, from having done. I’ve actually built and upgraded and modified each and every one of the things you mention. Except mats. Mats are for .... well never mind some guy somewhere swears by mats so let him be. A mat though is really just a convenient way of changing something without going to the expense of changing the platter, which if a mat helps is what really needed improvement.
But really every single one of these is equally important. Some guy somewhere changed something one time and it made a bigger improvement than another thing he changed another time and so he leaps to the conclusion Oh its that thing! Wrong. Its all of them.

What questions like this usually mean is What should I do next? What’s the biggest bang for my audio buck? And there is no answer to that one either.

(You will get lots of answers. This site exists to list things guys should buy. Watch and see what I mean.)

So with turntables I look at things a bit differently. The components all are equally important, but they are not all equal. The cartridge, unless you get something like a SoundSmith Strain Guage most cartridges are pretty much disposable. Tone arms and turntables on the other hand are pretty much forever. My turntable for example is 17 years, arm about 12, cartridge less than 2.

So I throw out which is more important. Instead what I do is determine which one might be the weakest and make it the strongest. Started with the arm, but there is no particular right or wrong order. If you find an awesome table at a good price just get it, mount your whatever arm, enjoy. Then if you find your dream arm and have the dough put that on there. You will indeed hear and appreciate each one. Ditto cartridge.

Seriously, this is for real. I have compared different platters on the same table, heard the difference. Changed bearings and even individual parts within the bearing. Changed motors, motor controllers, motor controller power supplies, on and on and freaking on. Belts? Changed em. Clamps? What did I just say?? Lol!
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
So don’t sweat it. Just do it. Whatever it is, I can just about guarantee you will be telling yourself wow that was the best thing I could have done! Until the next one....

I'll say the most important is a cart, that you like.

Everything else is a "need to have". To what degree?

I like real heavy EVERYTHING.. Plinths, EXTRA heavy!!

Being clean... Some folks are, some folks aren't...
LPs, take care of them..Handle with care!!!

Vibration control is a BIG thing, for LPs, ay?
It is # 1 right? or close...

Regards

1. Cartridge, but you need to have it well matched to a proper tonearm that won’t cripple its performance. Or else you goofed. But always start at the transducer since they impart the most coloration and your sonic preferences here will be very personal.
2. Phono stage, which needs to be electrically and sonically matched for your chosen cartridge. Includes the SUT if you go that route for MC step-up. Some people can tolerate more or less noise here which will factor into your decision. Choose poorly here, and you’ve also goofed.
3. Turntable needs to be good enough to not destroy the performance capabilities of the above items. This includes necessary isolation from your floor, speakers, other energy sources, etc. Choose poorly here, and you’ve also goofed.

Mainly remember your’re trying to put together a complimentary system of well-matched components. E.g. you can’t go "all in" on a Koetsu cartridge and stick it on a Project Debut. That’s why when it’s time to upgrade, you may find yourself buying all new things, which is why it’s such a money pit :)

Anyways, the way most people buy into their first vinyl system won’t be so orderly. Many will go for the bundle packs, like Project or Rega, with varying degrees of success - though at least the components will be reasonably complimentary, and you just need to choose phono. But if you want to do this "right", you’ll have to spend more than you first think. I started 13 years ago when I fell in love with a consignment SOTA Star III in fiery Koa wood, and just had to have it. It came with a Fidelity Research arm (great arm) and fortunately I didn’t cheap out too bad on the cartridge - got a new Benz Micro Glider (perhaps a slight mismatch to the arm, but not too bad) and a Dynavector P75 phono stage (I could've done a bit better here, but not without spending more). It cost $3.4K all-in, and the setup sounded so good I became a vinyl junkie for life. When I had started looking, I was hoping to keep it down to low-$1K max. Whoops - but I’m so glad I invested much more.

All the above applies. But without a great recorded LP in good condition it’s a waste of money and time.

Being a period press snob, I’m obviously biased.
That’s a separate thread topic altogether.

IMO, may as well have a nice digital setup, if you’re into current music or most of anything post....1980-90? It’s mostly digitally recorded anyhow.

DACs/file playback have come a long way, and CD’s still sound good to me in a proper system. They just don’t have that unexplained magic a good record has.

most significant element depends on the level of analog you are at.

at the entry level your biggest enemy is NOISE, so motor and platter will dominate the musical limitations. cartridge and arm are less significant, phono stage is also less significant.

next level up SPEED STABILITY becomes big and is what gives you the sense of musical flow. so again, motor is huge. better motors separate. they determine whether it sounds real.

next level now we are seeing arms become the limitation. can it relate the BASS and allow the cartridge to sound TRANSPARENT?

then the next level the cartridge and phono stage. how much INFORMATION and TONAL COMPLEXITY.

over about $6k-$7k total..........it’s EVERYTHING.....and at this break point the big separator would be SET-UP PRECISION.

this price point is arbitrary. just about what it takes to get ’over-the-hump’ into better sounding turntables.....from more modest level turntables. and if you go with the right vintage set-up and you know your stuff you could exceed this performance level for less money.

just how things look to me from being a serious analog guy for many years.

i have three separate $75k-$100k turntable systems. there are no pieces that you could significantly lower the performance and get the same result. they are SYNERGISTIC SYSTEMS.

you could make the case that over about $40k-$50k that the turntable/motor/plinth are most significant....but ONLY because they are the most expensive pieces. i'm not sure they are most important to the performance.

one more very significant thing.

past a certain point......say over $15k-$20k mostly any turntable is good enough that the specific pressing matters more than the turntable.

the media is a bigger issue than the gear once the gear gets to a certain level.

which is why many vinyl lovers chase pressings and not gear. a better use of time and resources.

WOW. I wasn't thinking about that high a level of commitment. At my level, I was amazed at how much the sound improved with an upgraded arm (REGA RB 700 to RB 880). Then I moved the turntable from a P5 to a P8 and it was subtly better, but was not blown away to the same degree, but I like a couple features it has. I learned late in life how the Phono stage is so important (much more so with a MC cartridge). When I got one that matched the impedence of my cartridge (which was and still is the best part of the system) I couldn't believe it over the one included on a very nice integrated amp (although with the kind of $$ you are talking about you'd never consider that).

The point of the question is theoretical in nature...what part of a rig could improving be most beneficial? I realize that is never true. The Linn mindset was always engineering focused at to the source of the sound, so cartridge came first, but I agree if there is excessive motor noise (or the record stinks) it is a moot point.

Dear friends: In an analogue rig and " everything the same " scenario/premise what can makes differences for the better or worst are each one commited to overall choosed analog rigs and  set up details.

Everything matters down there, @mikelavigne  already posted,  additional for me the first importance belongs to the cartridge self tracking abilities along its well matched tonearm because what we want is that the cartridge can pick-up as many recorded information as it can and to achieve that its tracking abilities can make a paramount differences if your room/system has a good overall resolution.
Now for that cartridge abilities can be showed the cartridge/Tonearm/TT must be douing in an accurated way: this is a must to have.

Down the cartridge/tonearm is very important the tonearm internal wiring quality and if the tonearm is a removable headshell design then the headshell connection wires and that the headshell will be matched to that cartridge.

The evil/enemies of the analog rig are the developed distortions /(everykind: noises, vibrations, resonances, EMI/RF, etc, etc. ) generated by the analog rig and the room. Important link in the analog rig where the TT is " seated " to avoid the develops of distotions.

So with have to find out ( in our system ) first those distortions, second from where are developed and third how to put all at minimum and for all these we need first hand experiences coming from every where and to have a evaluation bullet proof whole process.

Mats, clamps, cables makes a difference and if we have not the knowledge level and skills we can't really be aware if changing the TT mat for other one really makes a difference for the better or only a different sound but not better sound.

Fine tunning the analog rig is the name of the game down there and this means time and patience to achieve it: years not weeks.

After all those the choice of Phonolinepreamp is of critical importance because the cartridge information that always will be losted in that device we never have the chance to recovery, so the Phonolinepreamp is of vital importance because inside it are developed perhaps the higher distortions ( every kind of. ) in the analog rig.

Regards and enjot the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

What about SUTs (set up transformers). Should that be a separate category for those with MC cartridges?

Everything is important and contributes to the overall sound.

What about SUTs (set up transformers). Should that be a separate category for those with MC cartridges?

with 2 of my 3 turntables i have recently added EMIA Silver wound 1:10 SUT's that were trans-formative to the performance.

http://www.myemia.com/SUT.html

What about SUTs (set up transformers). Should that be a separate category for those with MC cartridges?

Not really. Some phono sections have enough gain on their own.

I think you will find that the ability of the tone arm to properly track the cartridge is far more important than the cartridge itself. So the way the two work together is important and no all cartridges work in all arms.


The job of the platter pad is to absorb vibration from the LP as the cartridge is playing it. It has to be able to do this while not imparting any noise (talking back) of its own. At the same time it should be able to apply additional damping to the platter itself. In turntables minimizing resonance and vibration is what its all about!


The phono section can contribute ticks and pops that sound for all the world as if they are on the surface of the LP! This is due to poor high frequency overload margin and stability issues; and IMO/IME is an epidemic in phono section design.

@sokogear : "  What about SUTs (set up transformers). Should that be a separate category for those with MC cartridges? "

it depends on the Phono stage design. Some designs has not enough gain and the designer opted by a passive gain stage through an internal SUT other designers opted by active high gain stage that does not needs a SUT and the stand alone SUT normally is used with Phono stages that handled only MM cartridges.

Even there are gentlemans that own an active high gain Phono stage and listen their LOMC cartridges through an stand alone SUT and this means that the cartridge signal will be added with several kind of developed distortions ( every kind of. ) for the use of additional IC cables between the Phono stage and the external SUT. 
Now the cartridge signal must travel for a half cable or 1m. cable that degrades the signal an exposes the signal to RFI, EMI, external vibrations, etc, etc. and not only that but the cartridge signal must pass through additional RCA/XLR input connectors and solder points adding more degradation and what happens at the Phono stage input connectors is duplicated at the SUT output connectors too. Along all those the cartridge signal must pass several meters of wire in the SUT internal transformers.

That's why : ""   that were trans-formative to the performance. ""

As an active high gain stage the passive SUT/stage can be addictive but certainly different.

R.

1) Tonearm/Turntable (equally important, should be well-matched so they work together2) Phonostage3) Cartridge (but must match tonearm effective mass, and the better the tip and coils, the better off you are)

In the end, all three or four of these things should be well-matched, and in the same category of quality, so one or more of the components aren't being bottle-necked by the better component[s].

@sokogear - there are a couple of things I consider very Important in an analogue setup using a Rega TT...

I guess this could be considered part of the Tone Arm, but the "method" attaching the TT to the phono stage - i.e. "the interconnect".

You can have either...-
1. a single cable run of quality wires from the cartridge to the phono stage
2. what appears to be a single cable run, but is in fact a different cable that is joined to the tonearm wire (e.g. as on my old RB240 arm)
3. RCA sockets + separate interconnect.

I’ve only experienced #1 and #2, but #1 is my preference to date and resulted in significant improvements in sound quality - together with selecting quality RCA plugs.

#3 can be a great option if you are auditioning Interconnects, but requires exceptional cables to come close to #1

Better still - I upgraded to an Audiomods Tonearm (perfect for Rega TT’s) and have never looked back - It came with a high quality one piece harness (i.e. #1) and great RCA plugs. It really highlights cartridge performance in some exceptional ways.

My next choice that I consider almost as important would be Phono Stage - I used budget phono’s (i.e. < $400) for many years - stepping up to a better performing phono stage did a couple of things...
1. improved sound quality greatly
2. it is compatible with a larger selection of both MC and MM carts
3. it is really quiet - no hum

Other more minor things that I have found that contributed to better analogue sound quality on a Rega TT include
- a metal sub-platter
- an acrylic platter
- a ceramic bearing
- a Michell Technoweight - a counter balance weight that lowers the center of gravity of the weight to the level of stylus
- a substantial (i.e. heavy) plinth - once you have experienced a plinth with mass you will not go back.

With the above items addressed, you will get the better performance out of any cartridge you choose.

But in general - I echo most of the other posts - in that everything across the entire system is important - especially cables

Regards - Steve