Interesting discussion and great insights so far. I want to re-iterate the point that I don’t have a problem with my Harbeth M30.1s. I really love the speakers. No, seriously. To be honest, the only reason I’m exploring other options is to see what else is out there. It’s like trying different regional varieties of a particular dish you like. What I’m looking for are different interpretations of the so-called BBC sound, but without venturing too far from the intrinsic sound signature. And when I say ’different’ I don’t necessarily mean ’better’. All speakers mentioned in this thread are amazing. ’Better’ in this context is so subjective. Hope this makes sense :)
BTW, I listened to PMC speakers (floorstanders, but can’t remember the model) about 3-4 years ago, and I have to agree with @prof that it sounded very different than Harbeth, at least to my ears. I don’t really know what is an ’english sound signature’ per se. Perhaps, ’BBC sound signature’ is a better description for what we’re talking about here? Also, please note that I’m not suggesting that PMC is better than Harbeth or vice versa. After all, it is a matter of personal taste. But IMO, they’re definitely not catering to the same customer.
Now Audio Note AN/J is a great suggestion, thank you @pani . Unfortunately, I have not had the pleasure of listening to an Audio Note speaker yet. They don’t seem to pop up in the U.S. used market that often. But based on what I’ve read, they do really well when placed closer to the front wall.
Proac Response D2 is also another contender that I might consider at some point in the future. It could have been the room or associated gear, but I felt that they were a little on the forward/bright side of the spectrum when I heard them last year. Now, I’m not suggesting Focal or KEF bright, but definitely more than Harbeth. This is not a deal breaker for me. In fact, this might very well be the ’interpretation’ I’m seeking after all :)
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I forgot to add that the Proac model I listened to was the D2R, which I believe utilizes a ribbon tweeter. Not sure if that was contributing to the slightly forward nature of the sound. Has anyone compared it with the non-ribbon version? I’d love to know which one you preferred. |
@arafiq If they were in the Fact or Twenty5 lines, then I would not be in the least surprised. However, as I say, as with many companies (take Spendor's D line and the Classic line and SP before that) not all models have the same family resemblance. |
@twoleftears Unfortunately, I cannot recall the exact model. In your opinion, which PMC model is closer to the BBC sound from the likes of Harbeth, Spendor, Rogers, or Graham? |
Audio Note speakers needs to be placed close to rear wall is a myth. That is Audio Note's way of projecting it. In fact it sounds wrong in the bass region when they place it in those corners. Just place it like a normal speaker and enjoy the speed and clarity it brings to the table. |
I'd say the IB, MB, etc. style lines probably the closest (not saying the same), followed by the Twenty line. To me the Fact and Twenty5 lines hewed much closer to the "modern" sound espoused by so many manufacturers these days. |
[please excuse my bad English][I read attentively your initial request, but I did not read all the member’s answers dut to lack of time]. Given your constraints, I think it is pretty simple: "I’m only looking to buy used and not spend much more than what I can sell the 30.1s for. And to be honest, I will only be switching for the sake of trying a new flavor. I really like the 30.1s and something tells me that I might come to regret the decision." - if the new ones MUST NOT be more expensive than the M30.1s => keep your M30.1s (moreover, you like them) - else, if the budget can grow a little => buy the M30.2 Anniversary 2nd hand. Terrific, but not easy to find 2nd hand. "So I won’t be able to buy something else, compare, and resell the one I don’t like as much"
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switching for the sake of trying
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=> M30.2 Anniversary are the less risky option. I think it is as simple as that. |
@arafiq If you like/love the 30.1s, I see little reason to go down the rabbit hole of finding replacements. Rather, I'd invest in acoustic treatment for your room. Have a look at GIK products; send them an email; they can recommend treatments to logically address the improvements you're seeking like treble response and imaging. These are massively affected by reflections from the walls and floors and ceilings. |
i think it is a good point made that if one is fundamentally not unhappy with a setup, or a set of speakers, it is often wise to stand pat, try to optimize placement or room acoustics
but part of the hobby is becoming too enamored with the gear itself, always curious to try to new (to us) and not appreciate what is in front of us at present -- i am as guilty or more guilty of this than most |
Hi Arafiq
Ditto the addition of a quality sub(s) and Professional DSP as a great leap. TAS Andrew Quint on the Audiovector R1 Arrete's can be found online. A well executed Air-Motion Transformer tweeter two-way in a room your size could be one and done. What great low bass can do for the overall sound, ditto an extended top. DeVille and JanZen loudspeakers also come to mind if budget allows.
More Peace, Even Order harmonics, ALL! Pinthrift |
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@orfeo_monteverdi -- that's certainly very good advice. "Don't fix it if it ain't broken," as the saying goes. I'm going to give Fritz Carrera BE a try in the next week or so. I will be in a position to compare the Carrera and M30.1s side by side for a few weeks. It definitely has a tough act (M30.1s) to follow. Let the best speaker win!
If I do end up keeping my 30.1s, then I agree that the next logical step is 30.2. |
Beautiful room photos! Hmm, I guess if you’re not digging the treble then yeah it’s the tweeter/crossover, I’m afraid. I don't see how more Harbeths would really change that. |
I actually don't have an issue with the treble to be honest ... yes, I know that's one of the things I mentioned earlier. I guess I'm just looking for a different experience ... either that, or I'm terribly confused, lol!
As @jjss49 mentioned, perhaps this is a case of not fully appreciating what I already have. But sometimes, there's only one way to find out. I'm going to compare the 30.1s with Fritz Carrera BE next week. Who knows, I might end up keeping the 30.1s after all. TBH, I'm really nitpicking at this point. Harbeth speaks to me in a way no other speaker has in the past .. at least so far. |
I used 30.2 in a 12’ x 15’ x 10’ tall room with a REL t7x. I turned the room 90 degrees and went with the SHL5+/t7x with a big improvement and used quite a bit of GIK acoustic panels. I now have 40.2 and no longer need the sub. I understand this is just a study and a secondary system. My point is don’t forget a simple and relatively inexpensive subwoofer. The key is, if you like the house sound, you’re a Harbeth guy. I realize I’m a Harbeth guy and with the 40.2, I’m done. |
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to @arafiq ’s last comment
i believe that as we stay immersed in this pursuit for some time, we each become conditioned to a certain type of sound, a style of presentation that sounds right to us
that is a good thing, as part of what is gained in this process is to develop clear bearings on what pleases us, what brings joy and comfort to us - at the start of the journey, it is a bit of a random walk, then over time, after hearing much music, live, and reproduced, in many many venues, we rule out what we don’t like and narrow the field repeatedly
i personally started with bbc monitors in the early 80’s, from rogers, chartwell, spendor and so on, big and small ... to this day, i set up my beloved pair of spendor sp1’s from 1989 and they just sound oh so right to me - other newer better speakers may sound different, and more impressive/better in some respects, but the sp1’s clarity, palpability, especially of the midrange, then how the upper and lower frequencies support and envelope those voices and central instruments, it is simply right to me... here, 40 years later, after travelling through quads, proacs, magnepans, jbl's, ohms, martin logans, vandys, thiels, jm labs, atc's, horn loaded, ribbons, open baffle, i come back to sp100 r2s and harbeth mon 40s... and that is a good thing, a really good thing, for me :) |
@jjss49 The more I read your impressions of the Harbeth M40s, the more I feel that this should be my endgame speaker. By endgame, I don't mean the last speaker but one that you buy once and never sell.This is indeed high praise from someone who's been around and knows that they're talking about. Thanks for sharing!
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@arafiq ,
[please excuse my poor english]
- Dito
- Spendor S100R² (now "Classic 100", €11300/pair) could be considered, but, again, I think a M30.2 Anniversary, 2nd hand, is a better option given your context. Additionnally, the M30.2 are very linear (and deliver a little bit more energy in the treble than the M30.1 that I owned too). My current M30.2 Ann. retains all the musical virtues of the M30.1, but delivers more details and sound more "right".
- Spendor Classic 100 Stereophile measurements (will deliver more bass, but is less linear)
- Harbeth M30.2 Anniversary Stereophile measurements (will deliver less bass, but is more linear)
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@arafiq I had a big speaker, Thiel CS3.7’s, in my 12x11x9 office for close to 2 years. It was a fun challenge to make them work in this space. I used various combinations of the following to make it work,
GIK | Convolution filter on ROON | Rearranged furniture | A bookshelf with books behind speakers | Luck
It sounded good but constrained somewhat by the room. Though, I was enjoying it.
Two weeks ago, I moved the Thiel CS3.7’s to my Livingroom since it was finally safe from my son’s destruction to do so. The speakers sounded so much better in this larger space. I actually sold the speakers a few days later because I knew I could get my end game speaker in there since the Thiels worked well. I sold it in 1 day after putting up ad.
I then put my 10-year-old KEF LS50’s + KEF KC62 sub into the small room. This room is treated with GIK panels. The sound was so much better than the Thiels in the office. Conversely, the Thiels was way better than the LS50 + KC62 in the larger Livingroom.
My takeaway was that you can make almost any speaker work in a small room but there is a penalty. With a smaller speaker in the same space there seems to be much less of a penalty. I am getting much greater enjoyment with the smaller speaker in this space. The LS50 does not seem constrained by the room, it seems to fill the room perfectly. I am not recommending the LS50, just a small speaker.
BTW - the Thiel and KEF drivers are similar in that the tweeter and midrange are in one driver unit. So, the dispersion should be similar (but different results in the same room).
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I am not sure if it was you that I said this too before, but another choice that is better than the 2 examples that I have mentioned in this post, is the new RAAL SR1a earphones with the RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp. This is good as anything I have heard, anywhere. It also eliminates the room from the equation. I am listening to it as I write this, and this is end game sound.
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