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Hi Jughead, does the Musical Design amp run balanced or single ended?
Saluti, Guido |
last time in the thread I bought the Parasound a21 and the p5 pre for my Mozart speakers and still felt something was missing? ran into a local dealer that I have known for 20yrs and haven't seen for a while and of course are conversation started with what kind of system are you running? he suggested a Musical Design amp and pre to work around the Mozarts or a different set of speakers for the Parasound gear, he felt the Parasound was not a good match with the Mozarts and gave me a Musical Design amp and pre to take home and try out. and man was he right I noticed the difference immediately not just a different sound but a noticeable change. it brought the mozarts outta the dark leveled out the bloated bass, gave the mids a fast powerful punch! and made the tweeters sizzle. the mozarts sound very natural and organic now. so I will be putting my a21 and p5 up for sale so if anyone is interested drop my a dime. |
The PARASOUND a21 does a great job on both speakers, with the WT being small the a21 spends most of its time in class a. |
Looking at specs and measurements of the Mozarts on Stereophile they will benefit in teh bass largely from lots of power and sufficient current to drive them.
The Bel Canto Ref1000m Class D amps I use with my more full range speakers would be perfect but those are somewhat pricey.
A <$1000 250w/ch or more Class D Audio brand amp would be a reasonable try to see what might be weaned out of the Mozarts for not very much.
If you have an amp capable of driving those to the max, especially the fairly extended bass being delivered out of smaller drivers, all the rest may well clear up as well and sound more competitive with what appear to be the much smaller Wavetouch speakers.
The Wavetouch speakers are smaller and do not appear to have as extended a low end so finding a suitable amp to make those sound good is likely not as hard. |
Adcom had a few good amps. |
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This thread is dead unclehubb, try what speakers for 10k. |
I picked up the new HSU VTF-15H MK2 ($1006 delivered) - it replaced my 10 year old Velodyne HGS-15 Servo (which was 4x the cost) - and the HSU blows it away! It was like hearing a sub for the first time!
Shorty after I replaced my NHT T-6 Evolution (same age - $4k) with the EMP TEK R55Ti Evolution Towers and matching center & surrounds ($1700 for all five) - again the EMP TEK blow the NHT's out of the water! Soundstage and imaging are out of this world. The speakers simply disappear and all I hear is the music.
Same thing with electronics - with the old set up I had a Sunfire Theater Grand III - Marantz MA-700 monoblocks - expensive cables - blah blah blah. Today running a new Pioneer SC-85 Atmos receiver with the EMP TEK's - HSU sub and I've never had better sound. Period. |
Contact me and I will build one for you.
Happy Listening. |
Still kicking myself for selling my CJ MF 2500 A ,,Very nice amp,getting harder to find used. |
Well the journey for amps is over,the a21 and the p5 are pieces i will have for years to come and will never let them go. the design of these pieces are beautiful! the sound is even better way better than I expected. The Mozarts came to life with this combo of power and finesse. my next goal is the Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Grands, but this will be a few year's down the road. but I would like to thank everyone for there input,and a special thanks to paraneer and tls49 for taking there time to guide me in the right direction, with speaker placement and pre amp with ht bypass.and grannyring's suggesting more power. and to runnin for encouraging me to get the "end of game amp" I love my new amp and preamp and most importantly love the sound of music again! thank you all it was a fun journey! |
Hehehe, I remember when I first saw the size of the box. They really ship it well protected andl insulated from the abuses of the shipping process. It's a great amp, like I said it's an end game purchase because you'll never want for anything more. With the P5 and its DAC, you're good to go! |
Just got the a21 today and WOW! this amp is unreal! way more power than I expected but the Mozart's love it. and it sound amazing right out of the box. when ups came to the the door with a box the size of a box that would fit a small lawnmower inside, I thought to myself is this overkill? nope its perfect I love it! |
Yeah I think i'll be using xlr connects,I have a set of siltech anniversary series model 770i pure silver and gold. no since in not using them. |
From what I've read, neither component has the balanced design, but the connects are in case of noise from long runs, etc. That said though, the XLR's are hotter by around 6 db's, so you'll get more volume without cranking it up. I've been meaning to to try the XLR's too from my Oppo to the pre to the amp. |
which would be the better connection with the a21 and the p5? balanced or unbalanced? |
Just got the p5 today, and wow! it blows the 2100 away! im running my adcom 555 mk2 with it until my a21 comes mon. the adcom sounds real good with the p5 cant wait to hear the a21. |
A21... smart move. Enjoy. |
Runnin you asked about cables, ill be using siltec silver xlr for the amp pre amp, and acrolink silver rca for sacd and audioquest jags for all the ht bypass connections. and audioquest k2 speaker cable. |
You simply can't go wrong with the A21, and if you're like me, you'd always wonder about the A21 if you opted for the A23! You've got a stellar combo, congrats. |
I went with the a21 $1995 b stock full warranty, just wanted to get a future proof amp and be done.This is my end of the game amp as far as amps go.with all the power of this amp i cant go wrong, and at a good price! I should have the p5 thur and the amp fri, ill let you know how it sounds. |
I really don't think you can go wrong with the A23. I don't use the 250 watts, I can tell you that. I don't want to steer you wrong, the A21 is the better amp, but I think the speakers and pre have much to do with the sound quality. After you get the amp, do some research on cables! |
Yes I have the 2100 and 2250 as of now, but I got a real good deal on the p5 brand new so went ahead and bought it. my room is about 15 by 19 and I never listen to music at ear bleeding levels, only because my wife hates my music taste. but I would think that the p5 and a23 combo would be a noticeable step above the 2100 and 2250? If I bought the a21 then yes end of game this will be my amp for years to come but that could be true for the a23 as well.but I agree 100% with paraneer put more focus on the pre amp this is where the refinement of sound happens. I know that these are the two amps iv'e narrowed it down to, but when I get read to pull the trigger on the a21 I think to myself do I really need that much power? |
Hey Jughead, so you do have the Paraound 2100 and 2250 right now? And you're considering either the A21 or A23 with the P5?
I've got the P7, pretty close apparently to the P5, and the A21. My speakers are Paradigm Signature S6, 4 drivers including tweeter per speaker, and a sensitivity of 91 with 8 ohms rating. But they go down to 3.2 ohms at a lower frequency. Anyway, to get the volume I prefer, mostly under 80db, the A21 is just loafing along not anywhere near full power. So it depends on what volume levels you prefer and room size. Mine is a fairly big space in a basement that's pretty open, about 600 square feet.
Your speakers are rated at 90 db sens, with 6 ohms, so the load seems pretty comparable. Really, I'd think the A23 would suit you fine, it would drive your speakers to their fullest. I'd only consider the A21 if it's the end game amp for you, the last amp you'll ever buy. That's one reason why I bought it, that and it runs in Class A for the first 10 watts, said to be a nicer sound than the class AB of most amps.
It's not cheap though. |
I agree with Tls49. Do not bridge the A23 with your VA's. Also, if you end up buying another one, you'll just wonder why you didn't get an A21 in the first place. Compromises in the HiFi can be very expensive.
Also, Tls49's suggestion is a good one. See if you can get a trial to find out if the A23 meets all your expectations. If not, return and get the A21 and call it a day.
I believe the A23 would be all you need but again that's me. I also know that not having what you really want can lead to nagging buyers remorse that as I said above, can get even more expensive. In the end, the thing that really matters is having the amp that makes you happy, not us. Best of luck brother! |
and if is not enough a year from now, i could always get another one and bridge them. Sorry Jughead, that's a bad idea. Minimum speaker load impedance for the a23 in bridged mode is 8 ohms and your speakers are 4 ohms. The a23 may work initially, but will likely fail due to running extremely hot. This would be the same as using a 2 ohm speaker load in the stereo mode. Why not ask the dealer if he will give you a 30 day option to return the a23 and pay the difference for the a21? |
IDK but i would think the a23 would be enough @ 225 watts into 4 ohms. and if is not enough a year from now, i could always get another one and bridge them. but i do think the a23 and p5 would be a big improvement over the 2100 and 2250. |
First, let me say that I have no experience with any of the equipment you have inquired about. However, I do have an opinion, and don't we all!
Based on what I've read over the years, it is common for audiophiles to refer to the silk tweeters as sounding dark or warm. Conversely, many will refer to the metal tweeters as being bright or harsh. Given that your speakers have the silk tweeter, you may want to experiment with a few different amps.
IMO, I would go after the Bryston 3B-ST that is listed here on the 'Gon. The Classe CA-101 might be another option. I have a Coda Model 10 that I might be persuaded to sell if you wanted to give that a try. |
Has anyone owned either of these amps? if so besides the obvious (a21 has more power) what is the diff between the two? |
If you can swing the extra for the A21 I would do that. It is by all accounts a topnotch sounding amp. In my experience I never regret spending a little more to get what I really want. Otherwise you might be back here a year later having spent a grand for something you wish you could trade in to put against the A21. Just my 2 cents. |
Well here is the deal, I can get a parasound a21 brand new with warranty for a great deal and the same with the a23. but with a good deal on the a21 its still very expensive 2k. and the a23 i can get for around $800 new. the only diff i see between the amps are power output and peak. andi would think the a23 being a john curl design along with the p5 pre would blow away my 2100 and 2250 combo. |
Well, if you hadn't mentioned the first three bands, I would say go for the 25i, its 25 watts double into 4 ohms. However, you always could go with Funjoe's higher output amps. His 50 watt amps double into 4 ohms, so 100 watts would've been enough for you. Your specs are slightly better than my own. I listen to mostly classical and jazz, but I haven't tried my Rage Against The Machine and Tool albums on it yet. Now I'm curious...... |
speakers are 90 dbw sens @ 4ohm, listening taste ranges from tool,slipknot,lamb of god, to nat king cole, seal.i pretty much listen to all music except for hip hop. room size i 15 by 19. |
Don't know your speaker's specs, your listening tastes or room size, but the Clones 25i is the best amplification I've ever owned and probably the most natural and non-HiFi sounding amp I've heard at ANY price. If you like room shaking bass and a lot of zip and zap, get any 200 watt, generic, run of the mill amp. They pretty much all give the same sensation: make u feel as though you're listening to a stereo system. |
For under a grand I think I might be looking at a used McCormack first. |
Think im gonna up my budget for my amp pre amp. Im looking at the Parasound a23 or the a21 amp, and the p5 pre amp. im sold on the p5 but unsure about the amp. would it be smarter to go with the a21 specs look the same except for the power supply of course.has anyone owned these amp? |
what about ps audio delta 250 mono blocks? |
old counterpoint amps and then send to me for upgrade
Happy Listening |
any thoughts on the parasound a23 amp, and the p5 preamp? i really like this combo. |
There are few Crown K2 amps could be purchased at fraction of their brand new price in perfect condition $450...700 ranges.
This amp is like no other pro amp is suitable for high-def home audio applications. |
Welcome and good for you! |
the parasound 2100 pre with the 2250 amp, brought the va's outta the dark. im hearing the details in the mozarts with much more clarity now. its not louder than the adcom 555mk2 but has more finesse for sure. Viennas get a bad rap about being a dark sounding speaker, not imo. they are a bit laid back for sure, but very smooth and warm sounding, very musical! they deff need a lot of power and good components to make them shine. thank you all for your help and input. speaker placement, pre amp with ht bypass and more power, brought life once again to the mozarts. thank you all. |
ran cable into surge protector,buzz went away. |
Run a digital rca from cable box. |
having a problem with the parasound 2100, its hooked up as instructed in owners manual i have my ps4,ps3, and blueray ran into avr with hdmi and they all work fine. my cable box ran the same way hdmi into avr,there is a picture but the only sound i get is a loud buzz? when i disconnect all the rca cables from the 2100 sound outputs from the avr as it should. and yes the 2100 is off when i want to use the avr and turned on when i want 2ch. anyone have an idea of why everything else would work fine but not the cable box? |
06-08-14: Jughead
"yet another curve ball! 2125 is sold, but i have a chance at a hca 1500a.im sure this would be a good match as well. deff a lot more power!"
I saw that one. Good price and looks to be in great shape.
Go get it.
Bill |
yet another curve ball! 2125 is sold, but i have a chance at a hca 1500a.im sure this would be a good match as well. deff a lot more power! |
Jughead,
Good choice in the 2125/2100 combo. I had that combination for a while and it's performance far exceeded it's price point. Far more powerful sounding than it's 125w/ch spec. Not overly warm but more neutral sounding IMO.
Good luck with your choices.
Bill |
think im gonna try the parasound 2125, i think it'll be a good match for the 2100 pre amp. |
