what amp under a grand?

Jolida 502p with factory upgrades.

Bel Canto 300m. Great combo!

Two channel sound from the Marantz/Adcom combo certainly should NOT be "muddy". That is some decent equipment. How are you connecting your SACD player to the receiver, i.e., via HDMI or analog interconnects? And if you are using interconnects, what are they? Also, what speaker cables are you using?

Agree with Mtrot, as I don't think the amp is the problem as long as it is functioning properly. Could be a room interaction issue. What is the distance between the speakers and back wall, also between speakers and side walls?

cd player analog ran with audioquest king cobra,speakers ran with audioquest mont blanc,amp to avr with audioquest jaguar. distance between speakers is 8ft,30 inch from side and rear walls.

Well, it seems like those are very good cables, so maybe it is some sort of room interaction. I'm not much of a guru on that topic, but I have heard that square-ish rooms are not good. What are the room dimensions? It could be that a bunch of reflections in the mid frequencies are producing the muddy sound.

yeah i think youre right about room interaction,didnt really think about that.the adcom 555mk2 and 5802 was adcoms best amps in my opinion.could try other things like audioquest pwr cables? granite plinth under viennas.

granite plinth under viennas.

What is the floor? wood or carpet?

Are you using spikes under the speaker or is the speaker cabinet sitting directly on the floor?

floor is carpet,spikes.

IMHO, I think side wall distance and back wall distance being the same at 30" is a problem. I know sometimes you may be limited with positioning, but look at this Speaker Placement Guide and notice the difference between side wall and rear wall distances.

i will give this a try a let you know the outcome tomorrow.thanks for your advice.

i do have a chance at a rotel rb 1582mk2 or a parasound hca 2003thx. both under a grand,has anyone heard these amps?if so do they sound better than the adcom 555mk2?

have the speakers set from side walls to center of speakers, but from rear wall will be a prob.diagram wants 8ft from rear wall, i can get this closer than it was,but cant do 8ft.

I'd suggest McCormack amps as among the best ss amps <$1K.

ill check them out.changing speaker placement did clean up the sound though.

mccormack dna 1 or 125?

It may not be your amp, but if it is, then ditto on the McCormack. I'd vote for the 125. The "McCormack sound" may not have the very last word in HF extension or air, but their amps are very highly regarded in every other respect. 125 should be slightly more transparent and neutral than the DNA 1, if both are stock.

McCormack dna 125 or rotel rb 1582?

Your speaker is very musical and could certainly be described as a tad dark sounding. A higher power class D amp would be the best choice. It will balance out the speaker perfectly and for little money. You can buy brand new monos from Ghent Audio for $999 with a trial period.

You can find used Bel Canto, Nuforce etc amps that would also work wonderfully.

I use a Bel Canto Class D amp with mine and the combo is perfect.

Your speaker can certainly sound a tad dark and muddy with the wrong amp. You want a crisp, clean, fast and neutral amp for your speakers. You want power and your speakers react well to lots of power. Class D is not always the best choice, but in your case they would be ideal.

well bel canto class d,ghent audio gas500b (dual mono) rotel class d or jolita 502p. which would be the best amp for my set up? and future set ups?

Not tubes for your speaker. Ghent is affordable and the trial period makes it risk free and fun.

The others may be out of your budget. Keep an eye out for used ones.

thanks for the advice.i think i might order the ghent dual mono and give them a try its 899 right now, and risk free where can i go wrong? plus its small! i do have a line on a rotel rb 1582 less than a year old for 800.

any thoughts on emotiva?

No history with that. Sorry

like all amps i hear good and bad about emotiva. but at 800 bucks i can get a 3 channel,330 watts into 4ohms and 260 into my 6 ohm theatro center.

do you have room correction software you're running on your receiver ? if so, try turning it off. had the same problem and now much better with it off. on for surround

bel canto 300m, rotel rb 1582, ghent dual mono, mccormack dna 225,adcom 5802,jolida 502p,emotiva xpa 3. whats the best match for my set up?

Maybe none of the above Jughead,

If you are looking to improve the 2 channel sound with your VA Mozart Grands, why are you looking at the amp as the problem? Most likely it is the Marantz AVR that is holding you down. The 2 channel pre-amp sections in AVR's are merely an afterthought - AVR's are designed for multi-channel, digital reproduction first. That means movies and games.

You want better stereo, get a component designed to reproduce stereo!

I suggest you look at a good quality 2 channel integrated amp with a HT Bypass feature so you can use it full time in your surround sound system to drive your VA's. I had a ten plus year affair with HT that always left me wanting more from music reproduction. And my front three speakers are almost identical to yours. The amp wasn't the problem - it was using an AVR as a stereo pre-amp that was.

I finally replaced Parasound theater separates for a Marantz PM15S2 LE integrated and it has taken my 2 channel listening and my VA Bach Grands to new heights. Analog sources, vinyl and CD, are plugged directly into this integrated. Digital sources like cable and Blu-ray are plugged into my AVR. The Marantz drives the VA's all the time; the AVR takes care of the center and surrounds.

In your case, you could still use your Adcom amp to drive the center and surrounds. Hope this is food for thought.

i will look into this,makes sense.thank you all for the input, have a lot of food for thought now.

what integrated amps have ht bypass?

Here are just a few integrateds with HT Bypass that come to mind...
Marantz PM8004, PM15S2, PM11S3.
Arcam A-28, A-38
Creek EVO 2, 5350 EVO, Destiny
Krell S-300i
Musical Fidelity M3i, M6i
Music Hall A70.2

There are probably a lot more than just the above list. Maybe some others can add to it. Another option is to consider a 2 channel pre-amp with HT Bypass and install it between your AVR and Adcom such as the new Parasound Halo P5. Same concept. Good luck to you.

yeah the marantz pm8004 is on ebay think ill give it a shot.

Nice amp and built at the Marantz reference factory in Japan. Has the "Power Amp Direct" feature that essentially turns it into a power amp that you control with AVR's volume knob when listening to surround sources. Push the button to disengage and you control the volume with the integrated amps knob for 2 channel. It will match up well with your VA Mozart Grands. Let us know how it works out.

will the marantz pm8004 have enough juice to give the mozarts a kick?

Unless you're filling up an auditorium with sound, no problem. Your Mozarts are the same as my Bachs - 4 Ohms with a sensitivity of 90 dbw. The PM8004 is a high current amp putting out a true 100 wpc into 4 Ohms. My PM15S2 puts out 140 wpc into 4 Ohms. The difference between 100 and 140 is negligible.

It will make your Mozarts sing with no problem.

Well, that is one view and I respect it. Another view is you need more power to open up the speaker, not just to get it loud. I think a 70 watt amp is not ideal for this speaker based on my experience. Sure it will play the speakers very loud, as loud as you ever would want. A more powerful amp will open them up more and play them with a greater sense of space and ease.

Specs can be very, very deceiving and these speakers like power.
Also, do not partner these speakers with an amp that has any tendency towards darkness.

You want a great integrated for these? The Bel Canto i300. It is 150 watts per channel and the speakers drink it up! It is not dark and very fast.

what would the bel canto i300 cost new or used? i can get a used marantz pm 8004 for 350. but i do think in my situation an integrated amp with ht bypass is the way to go.my system is for family as well, used for movies and gaming.if it was just for me an avr would not be in the picture!

Thanks Jug. Well they can be had for $900 to $1000 used. But for $350 and the family I can see the wisdom of where you are going. Sound quality is not everything here. Go for it then with the M.

well 900 would be fine, but where can you find them?

They do show up on the Gon monthly, but none right now.

Yes Granny, I agree with you that there is more to it than just getting loud. There is current and damming factors to be considered in order to really take control of a speaker and make it sing vs. than just getting it up there in volume. The 8004 has both and is not afraid to list them. IMO, the 8004 will do a great job in most listening rooms with his VA's. Again, my Bachs are identical in impedance and sensitivity and I drive them with a PM15S2 that is 90 wpc @ 8; 140 wpc @ 4 in a 13' x 17' room. Really not that much more in power. And this replaced a 185 wpc @ 4 Parasound power amp. And the Marantz makes my VA's sound better - I couldn't be happier. But that's my personal situation. I always respect an argument for a little more power Granny. That's never a bad thing either!

If you're more comfortable with higher power Jug, I can appreciate that. I wasn't trying to recommend an amp as much as was trying to point out that your muddiness problem most likely comes from using an AVR as a stereo pre-amp. As I mentioned in one of my other posts, you can even keep the Adcom and consider a stereo pre-amp with HT Bypass as an option. Whatever way you go, best of luck to you brother!

oh i agree with you paraneer, i dont think its the amp.the adcom 555 mk2 hits 330 watts @4ohms,and i think if i could run it with a good pre amp the mozarts would have more life to them.330 watts is way more juice then i know what to do with!what pre amps have ht bypass? because i would like to keep the adcom in the mix, to much power is better than not having enough.

well i went ahead and bid a marantz pm8004 its cheap enough to give a shot,if it works well ill get one with more power.anthem makes an integrated amp @300 watts into 4ohms.haveto save my change and collect cans to get that one.

lost bid on marantz but scored a parasound 2100 for 250. the only prob with the 2100 is the volume control on remote does not work.any ideas on a universal remote?

TAD Hibachi Monoblocks (see my system photos) if can be found are a fantastic bargain still these days, in particular as a SS amp option in cases where a tube amp might work best, but is not desired for whatever reason.

just got my parasound 2100 in the mail today. and wow! the viennas came to life! nice to have 2 channel sound again, but i still think i can do a little better than the adcom amp.

Glad to hear it worked out for you Jug. Yeah, that's what I said a few years ago when I broke up with the HT mistress.

I kinda thought your problem was using an AVR as a stereo pre-amp. Enjoy the music again brother!'

thank you for the advice,what would be a good amp to pair with my setup? i still think more juice would open up the va more.

Grannyring's recommendation is a real good one.

yep i agree, looking at a few bel cantos. the i 300 and the s300 i can get for real cheap. and i had a lot of good advice, speaker placement brought the speakers out of the dark and the parasound 2100 brought speakers to life! and the advice on more juice will be the icing on the cake. not so sure about a class d amp? but im willing to give it a try.