Want to upgrade my cartridge from 2m blue to black
My first post here on the forums and I needed an honest opinion. I have a cheap music hall mmf 2.2 turntable with 2m blue installed. I like the sound but was wondering if I can get better details from upgrading to a black cartridge on my basic turntable. Would it be worth it? I’m definitely an analog lover but am budget constrained. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
As I describe above, any of the 2M styli is mountable on the two "different" body types - which physically are the same. The "differences" are electrical, the "better" ones go to the Bronze/Black series the "lesser" ones to the Red/Blue
The "Difference" between the Red/Blue - Bronze/Black is the 2M logo red vs Gold SilkScreen, and it sounds fantastic :-)
One Caveat when working on the 2M series, be very careful pulling the leads of the pins, a slight design flaw with them is that they are smooth so if the clips are too tight - the pins can pull out of the body destroying the cartridge.
No, the Ortofon black stylus cannot be used with the blue cartridge body. This according to the Ortofon website.
I think you have no idea what you’re talking about, no matter what stated on the Ortofon website, here is a comparison chart of all models in 2M line. The difference is cartridge inductance (700mH for Blue and 630mH for Black), 1db higher channel separation for Black and 0.5mV higher output for Blue.
Another user also commented about it:
The Black stylus can be swapped into any of the 2M bodies the difference is that the "better" ones gets selected for the Bronze and Black - the runts for the Red and Blue. The electrical specs are listed as 1.2kOhm for the Bronze and Black - 1.3kOhms for the Red and Blue. @pbnaudio
@big_greg
Common sense is that a good table with an entry level cartridge will sound better than an entry level table with a good cartridge.
This is BS and i already explained how big is the improvement of the Stanton 881s mkII instead of the Ortofon 2M Red on the same cheap turntable called Pro-Ject Carbon. I’ve heard it myself, did you ever tried just to swap a cartridge ? Or you’re always buying a new turntable for each cartridge ?
Entry level cartridge can not sound better on more expensive turntables, cartridge pick up the signal from the record, not from the turntable. A cartridge rides in the record groove. Turntable just spin the record. If a person has just $700 for upgrade why do you advice a new turntable for the same shitty cartridge ?
We can talk about new turntable with much better tonearm if the budget is $2000, but not a $700 (the stylus replacement is cheaper than $700 anyway).
For a better sound a person can upgrade cartridge, turntable, tonearm, phono stage, wires, speakers and to make room treatment ... but this is not the case of this topic !
We can start from room treatment for anyone, but in this topic the OP just looking for a new cartridge or stylus and what you’re posting here is nonsense.
Of course a new stylus with better profile will be an improvement for any good working turntable. And Shibata stylus is an improvement over Elliptical stylus. All he need to do is to buy a STYLUS from the top model for his cartridge body. This is the quickest and most cost effective solution for his system at the moment.
Common sense is that a good table with an entry level cartridge will sound better than an entry level table with a good cartridge.
You could get a pretty nice second hand turntable for the $755 the 2m black would cost and put the blue on it or more than likely find a turntable with a similar quality cartridge already on it.
I did a lot of upgrades to My Music Hall 2.2. The acrylic platter, a speed box, a nagaoka MP 500 cartridge. At the end of the day my music hall 5.1 with a $50 AT95 cartridge sounded better. Not that the 2.2 is a bad turntable, it's not. I still have mine and enjoy it in another system.
My read of the original poster was that they have a limited budget and want to get the best sound quality. The money they are considering spending on a cartridge upgrade would be better spent on a decent turntable. They could spend less and have better sound quality by replacing the turntable instead of the cartridge.
A note of caution is that the wires on the tonearm on the 2.2 are very flimsy and break easily.
No, the Ortofon black stylus cannot be used with the blue cartridge body. This according to the Ortofon website. They list two swaps for the blue cartridge stylus; one is the 2M silver. I can't recall the other one but it wasn't the black. The site plainly states on the detail page for bronze and black cartridges that those styli are swappable. The detail page for the blue cartridge does not show the black being able to fit the blue body. If you want to take a chance on ruining a nearly six hundred dollar stylus, go for it.
The cartridge for the red and blue stylus is the same. The cartridge for the orange and black is the same but different and an upgrade to the red/blue cartridge. An orange and black stylus will fit into the blue cartridge but you will not get the best performance from that cartridge. I had a Music Hall 2.2 and installed the orange and it was great...still have it for my Prime. I suggest you get the orange now it will be a noticeable improvement and then later you can just replace the stylus to the black either for your 2.2 or a new turntable that you will most likely get in the future.
The OP's turntable Music Hall 2.2 is almost like Pro-Ject Debute Carbon designed for use with Ortofon 2M Blue or Red, those turntables suplied by the manufacturer with Ortofon cartridge as optimum and cost effective solution. It's a low budget turntable.
There is absolutely no need to change a turntable if the OP would like to upgrade it right now, all he need is just spare stylus with better profile, that's it. The stylus from Ortofon Black can be used with his Ortofon Blue cartridge.
It's not a problem to make perfect alignment of any cartridge on this turntable/tonearm. I did that for a friend, but his choice for upgrade was Stanton 881s mkII (much better than any Ortofon MM). It was huge upgrade in quality compared to Ortofon Red.
Some posters should really turn on the common sense here
P.S. I told my friend that he could sell his Pro-Ject in the future to buy more expensive Technics DD, but he's just fine with his Pro-Ject and the music sound good in his system, there is nothing wrong with that types of turntables for people who don't want or not ready to buy a better and more expensive turntable. They are happy to spend more on the records.
The 2m black will need to be properly adjusted to get the most from it with shibata stylus. If you cannot adjust both your stylus rake angle and azimuth properly you will be wasting your money. If your confident in adjusting those 2 parameters and overhang with tacking force. You will hear a difference.
I am told the black is very critical in picking up noise from dirty vinyl.
That's not true. First of all i assume you play NEW vinyl, not a 40 years old vintage vinyl or not? So why do you expect noise on a new vinyl and why do you think a new vinyl is dirty by default ?
If you play old vintage vinyl (like i do) the
Shibata, LineContact, MicroRidge
are so much better than Elliptical, because it can ride on a virgin part of the groove walls, not damaged by previous owner with Conical or Elliptical stylus decades ago.
With Shibata, LineContact, MicroRidge stylus profiles you can only improve the sound quality compared to Elliptical profile. This is upgrade anyway. A lifespan of those styli are much longer!
Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. My maximum budget is approx $700 so I thought this would be a worthwhile upgrade to my analog play back. I understand the limitations of the turntable and I am told the black is very critical in picking up noise from dirty vinyl. I will also be using gruv glide to treat my vinyl collection.
The Black stylus can be swapped into any of the 2M bodies the difference is that the "better" ones gets selected for the Bronze and Black - the runts for the Red and Blue. The electrical specs are listed as 1.2kOhm for the Bronze and Black - 1.3kOhms for the Red and Blue.
Be careful pulling the the wire leads of the 2M series the cartridge pins can pull out if the clips are too tight.
Ortofon’s site says the black stylus can be swapped into a bronze body but does not mention any other swap. You need to be wary of NOS old cartridges; the stylus suspension can / will deteriorate and become stiff over time.
@bsmg he could ask any Ortofon dealer about it online.
@tubelvr1 If the Black stylus is so expensive i would recommend Ortofon M20FL Super with nude FineLine diamonds. Great cartridge that can be find NOS for about $200-300 or even for a lower price. Seach on audiogon forum for user feedbacks. I still have NOS stylus for it, but i don't have cartridge body.
chakster I do not know if it's physically possible to switch a blue stylus with the black stylus. I just would not do it. Besides, the cost of the black stylus is within 200$ of the cost of the entire cartridge (stylus 570$, cartridge with stylus 755$), I would still advise the OP to get a 2M bronze to replace the blue; it costs about 450$
You should be able to find a used Music Hall 5.1 for less than the cost of the cartridge you're considering and that will be a more significant upgrade than adding a better cartridge to that table.
That table is decent, but it has inexpensive feet, a cheap tonearm, and not much (if any) isolation or mass in the plinth. It does not handle bass very well, it tends to sound a bit "tubby".
The 5.1 has much better isolation and a better tonearm and will sound much "tighter" and overall better than the 2.2. No matter how good of a cartridge you put on the 2.2 you won't change the inherent problems the platform has.
Chakster, Where is the OP gonna get a used 881s with a good stylus?
It was not an advice to buy Stanton 881s, but just an illustration of how this particular turntable (or any turntable) benefit with a better cartridge. Turntable just rotate the record, but cartridge extract the music from the groove. Yes, this is a cheap turntable, but the cartridge is far more inportant of the owner does not have money for a new turntable which is probably $1700-2000 minimum.
@bsmg
I would not put a 2M Black on that turntable; that’s a 750$ cartridge with a Shibata tip, not interchangeable with the Blue stylus.
Are you sure ? This is Blue and this is Black stylus.
Why do you think they are not interchangeable ?
Here is a comparison chart of all models in 2M line. The difference is cartridge inductance (700mH for Blue and 630mH for Black), 1db higher channel separation for Black and 0.5mV higher output for Blue.
Why do you think the Black Shibata can not be used on 2M Blue cartridge body instead of Elliptical?
What’s the reason to say that ?
We’re talking about stylus replacement, not a cartridge replacement. The stylus cost is not as high as the new cartridge cost. If you are comparing a price of a new turntable with a price just for a new stylus the difference is huge!
I would not put a 2M Black on that turntable; that's a 750$ cartridge with a Shibata tip, not interchangeable with the Blue stylus. I agree that you should get a better table first instead of just a different cartridge. Or maybe just get the 2M Bronze which is the next one up the line and only a little more than half the cost of the Black.
Chakster, Where is the OP gonna get a used 881s with a good stylus? There's a couple on eBay of unknown quality. While I acknowledge the quality of the cartridge, it's not really viable advice.
I’m definitely an analog lover but am budget constrained. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
It seems like other folks ignoring your statement about "
budget constrained", cartridge is the most important in your situation, change the stylus profile first, this is the most cost effective solution to upgrade the quality. You can always use your upgraded cartridge on another turntable.
I have a local friend with similar cheap belt drive, he changed M2 Red to Stanton 881s mkII and it was huge improvement in sound quality without changing anything else, later he has bought a better phono stage, but still using the same turntable (Pro-Ject).
The 2.2 can certainly benefit from a better cartridge. I'm not familiar with the Ortofon cartridges, so can't say how much of an improvement the specific upgrade you're thinking about will make. I have a Nagaoka mp500 on my 2.2 and it sounds really nice. I wouldn't spend crazy money on that table though, you might be better off spending that money getting a 5 series or 7 Series Music Hall second hand and putting the cartridge you have on it. My 5.1 sounded better with a $50 AT95e on it than the 2.2 with the mp500 on it.
If is has a better stylus profile then it will be an upgrade for sure. The styli are interchangeable between Blue and Black ? If yes just go for it (just the stylus)
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