VPI Scout 1.1 parts to upgrade HW~19

Does your current  table have the stainless steel/acrylic plinth? If not, the weight of the Classic platter is too much.

I think you're spinning your wheels with poor results at the end.

Slaw, yes. It is an MkIII. So it has the stainless steel plinth. 
 

Stringreen, this table is famously…modifiable. You wouldn’t be the first to tell me, however that these are likely not actual upgrades. Do you have any suggestions for Sonic improvements to an HW-19?
 

The HW series tables were/are very upgradeable, but it's a rabbit hole. 

If you're committed, the upgrade process is an interesting way to learn about the rewards of certain types of isolation/& resonance control.

If you are buying a full Scout, make sure you first listen to it before cannibalizing its platter for use on the 19.  You may still like the 19 better.  I am curious as to why you would want to buy a Scout with the express purpose of using only its platter and arm instead of the entire thing.

Be careful about replacing the 19’s delrin/lead platter with the Scout’s metal platter.  The metal platter will have a very different tonal character which you may or may not like.  You MAY gain a little rotational inertia with the Scout platter’s additional 2-3 lbs, but the different tonal character will probably be much more of a concern.  The different arm is, of course, another variable.  I can’t comment on the Scout’s arm, but I do know that the Rega is a pretty good arm.

If you want to substantially improve the 19 while retaining its general tonal signature (assuming you like it already and just want to improve matters) there are two things that you can do.  The 19 MK IV platter is a significant improvement in the area of speed stability and bass solidity while retaining the basic tonal character.  Personally, I would start there and try and find one.  In my opinion the biggest improvement of all would be an SDS motor controller.  Very significant improvement across the board; regardless or platter used.  

Good luck.

I've been asking around and the common response is...find a super platter or find a Mk IV platter. Since I asked I should listen. 

I thought the Scout would save me money and the  (indefinite) time it will take to find a derlin platter. But being impatient and trying to save money are not the best pathways to upgrade ones kit. 

Thanks for the advice. And if anyone sees a VPI super platter, a TNT platter, or Mk IV platter. Drip me a line. 

I bought a Mk IV plater and bearing three years ago to put on a VPI Aries. It wasn't until after I purchased that I found out that the Aries plinth would have to be re drilled to fit the Mk Iv bearing, so I had to ship the plinth, bearing, and platter to VPI to be drilled out and fitted. Find out ahead of time if those three will be drop in, or do you need to send your table in to be re fitted by calling VPI and speaking to one of the techs. 

I had a MkIV platter on my HW-19 and it fit without having to drill. I have a super platter but it’s for a project. The bearing for the super platter fits perfectly.

Slaw, can I ask if you mean the bearing well fits the plinth hole perfectly or if you mean the bearing of a Mk IV or super platter drop into the existing MkIII bearing well perfectly?

It is unclear to me if i can just literally "drop in" a new platter or if i will need to replace the entire bearing assembly for these compatible platters.

Thanks.

With my super platter, the bearing mounting shaft fits the hole in the MkIV plinth perfectly. This bearing is secured by a nut on the bottom side instead of the screw mount of the standard non- inverted bearing. I hope that makes sense. 

I actually have used the original non- inverted bearing with the MK IV platter but I wouldn't recommend it. The MK IV bearing housing is made beefier.

Slaw, do you recall how to lubricate the MkIV bearing, and what to use?

Thanks.

I know about upgrading VPI....I have a Superscoutmaster with metal platter, rim drive,10.5 tonearm with 2nd pivot..turntable rests on large brass cones

The matter of the different bearings and platters VPI used on the various incarnations of the HW-19, Aries, and TNT tables is a little convoluted, and can be confusing.

But first, the Mk.3 HW-19 does NOT have a stainless steel sub-platter, it has a non-stainless steel sheet painted black. The stainless steel sheet was introduced in the Mk.4 version, and is unpainted.

Now, onto the bearings and platters:

- The bearing used in the HW-19 Mk.1 through 3 are identical: it has an aluminum housing with an outer diameter of 1", the top of the housing having a flange with three holes through which bolts pass to secure the housing to the floating sub-chassis.

- The Mk.1 platter was a solid piece of 1" thick aluminum, with a thin layer of lead bonded to it’s underside, covered in cork. The Mk.2 and MK.3 platters are also 1" thick, but made of black Delrin, with the same lead/cork layer bonded to the underside.

- The MK.4 version has a 1.5" thick black Delrin platter, again with the lead/cork layer on the bottom. What I am not sure about is if the Mk.4 has the same bearing, or instead the one VPI introduced in the original TNT, and also incorporated in the original Aries. This new bearing has a housing also 1" in diameter, but is made of stainless steel. And instead of three holes in the mounting flange for mounting bolts, the outside of the housing is threaded, the housing secured to the plinths of the TNT and Aries with a nut tightened from below.

- However, VPI also made the stainless steel housing in a version with an outer diameter of 1.25", and used it in different incarnations of the TNT. On the other hand, all original Aries tables are fitted with the 1" housing. Confused yet? ;-)

- Both the HW-19 Mk.1 through 3 and the original Aries have a mounting hole sized to accept a bearing housing of 1". However, some TNT’s came with the 1" bearing, others with the 1.25" version. When looking for a TNT platter/bearing to install on an HW-19, look for one with the 1" bearing (to precluded needing to enlarge the mounting hole in the sub-chassis).

- The use of the term "Mk.4" in the above posts is somewhat confusing, as the platter introduced in the HW-19 Mk.4, and the platter used in the TNT Mk.4 are different from one another. The HW-19 Mk.4 is, as I noted above, a solid piece of 1.5" thick black Delrin. The TNT Mk.3 and Mk.4 platters are identical to one another: a bottom layer of 7/8" thick aluminum with the lead/cork combo bonded to its underside, with a top later of 3/8" thick Delrin, for a combined thickness of 1.25". This same platter was used in the original Aries. I believe the TNT Mk.1 and Mk.2 had the same platter as the HW-19 Mk.4.

- A popular upgrade for the HW-19 is one of the TNT platters. The two considered the "best" by many are the just described TNT MK.3 and 4/Aries, and then the TNT Mk.5, which is different: the MK.5 has a bottom layer of 5/8" thick stainless steel (without the lead/cork combo on its bottom side) with a top layer of 7/8" thick Delrin, for a combined thickness of 1.5"

- In the TNT Mk.6, VPI switched to an inverted bearing (with I believe an outer diameter of 1.25:) and a frosted white Acrylic platter. This platter is now considered a mis-step on VPI’s part---even by Harry Weisfeld---and was replaced with the current aluminum platters, still with an inverted bearing.

- The Super Platter evolved out of the TNT Mk.5 platter. It has an inner section of stainless steel, with a layer of Delrin both top and bottom, a stainless steel/Delrin sandwich, so to speak. It uses the VPI inverted bearing.

- Amongst VPI enthusiasts, there are those who prefer the TNT MK.5 platter above all others, some the TNT Mk.3/4/Aries platter, others the Super Platter (though others still finding it to be too "damped" sounding). But there are also those who like the current aluminum Classic platter. As with everything in hi-fi, it’s a matter of taste.

- Now, as to electronic speed control: If you are patient, wait until the no-longer-in-production Phoenix Engineering Eagle/Roadrunner combo comes up for sale used. MUCH better than any of VPI’s controllers. Or look into the version of same currently available from SOTA, which with a slight modification can be used with the VPI motors.

- Speaking of motors: one excellent HW-19 upgrade is the VPI SAMA---the Stand Alone Motor. It is the Hurst-sourced VPI motor mounted into a free-standing heavy pod, used in place of the same motor mounted on the HW-19’s outer frame. The SAMA designed expressly for the HW-19 is no longer available, but they occasionally come up for sale.

My mark 3 has a stainless steel subplinth!

@charliee , 

I settled on Motul 300v, double ester, 5w40.

I used 4 drops in the bearing well. No more!

Here ya go!!

VPI basically has two types of bearings. One where the shaft sticks up from the plinth, with the ball on top ("inverted bearing") and one where the shaft goes down into the plinth with the ball at the bottom ("well bearing"). The inverted bearing uses super lube or white lithium grease to lubricate it.

A couple of corrections/additions to bdp’s VPI treatise:

-As yogiboy points out, the 19 MK 3 did have a stainless steel sub plinth.
The MK 4 bearing did not require modification of the plinth to accommodate the bearing well/housing. This bearing and bearing housing were the same as on the Mk3 and as before were secured to the plinth by three screws. The larger threaded bearing housing and bearing shaft were for the TNT series.

Later MK4’s came with a frosted acrylic platter.

I was relying on memory when I stated the Mk.3 HW-19 has a steel subchassis rather than a stainless steel one. At my age that is ill-advised. ;-) I knew VPI had replaced the steel plate with a stainless steel one, but I mistakenly though it was in the MK.4 version. I really should know better, as my HW-19 in a Mk.3, and it has the unpainted stainless steel plate. Duh. I upgraded my HW-19 with first an Aries 1/TNT-3/4 platter, then a TNT-5 platter. I like both a lot, the TNT-5 (stainless steel and Delrin) the most. 

While the aluminum bearing housing of the Mk.1/2/3 HW-19’s is the same 1" outer diameter as is the stainless steel housing of the Aries 1/2 and some TNT’s (others apparently came with a 1.25" version of the stainless steel bearing housing), the spindles of the two bearings are quite different. The spindle included in the stainless steel housing is much beefier, and has three little adjustable screws, for leveling the platter. The spindle "platform" upon which the platter rests is also much thicker, presumably to accommodate the heavier platters. The spindle is also fitted with three small rubber "donuts", to better secure the platter to the spindle.

While most used Aries 1/TNT platters are sold with their dedicated bearings, that is not always the case. In case you don’t know, the HW-19 bearing is not appropriate for use with the Aries/TNT platters, so when buying make sure you get both. However, if you find a platter with the 1.25" version of the bearing (or if you decide to use a platter with the inverted bearing, which I understand is also 1.25" in diameter) at a good price, the Delrin/stainless steel subchassis bearing mounting hole can be enlarged without too much difficulty.

There must be a few variants of the HW-19 MK4.  Mine (1995) has the delrin/aluminum/cork platter from the factory.  Have the SDS and SAMA.  Had a sapphire thrust plate and ceramic bearing added for a HUGE upgrade.  It's a  black hole noise floor.  

Would love to take it out of mothballs, fit a different arm and armboard and add the Sota Total Eclipse package.  Naw.