Vandersteen Quatro CT

I use all now.  I purchased an incredible server from Steve Nugent and it has a LOT of well recorded mostly high res music in all genre's.  I figure that if I purchase anymore, I'll get high res if possible.  I'll search and see.  :)

@ctsooner  Don't know about the high rez.  I am a silver disc and licorice pizza user.

Thanks for the suggestion! 

can you get the download in high rez anywhere?

@nycjlee   Rather than listing numerous discs, the one that will get the job done in every way of appreciating break-in and is just great, fun jazz is Clark Terry's "Portraits" on Chesky.  It may be the best overall recording I own as the music is revelatory and the recording flawless.  Images occupy a huge soundstage.  Clark's trumpet images to the right of the right speaker on some cuts.  He engages in fun scatting on some songs.  The cymbals....you can hear Lewis Nash work his way around the kit and detect the different diameters of the various cymbals.  The smaller the cymbal the more numerous are the higher frequency overtones and vice versa. The big deal is the "brassiness" of the cymbals.  It sounds as close to hearing live as I've experienced in a  recording. The dynamic swell of the music breathes life into it.  You will not lose on this disc.  I will promise that.  You will notice that it's almost impossible not to react physically to the sway of the music as it grows from cut to cut.

Warning - A couple of times Terry taps the mike and you'll hear(feel) a thump.  Your system is fine you are just hearing what's on the disc. Leaving artifacts like that in the final production enhances the sense of being in the room live with the performers.

I have had the CD for some time and it is great.  If you want all this extraordinary recording can offer, get the SACD.  It Will be your demo. disc as well as something you pop in the player when you don't know what you want to listen to ... a true treasure!

Uh oh!  Forget buying the SACD from Chesky or Amazon.  Import CDs has it on eBay for $17.59 shipping included.

It's all good as I wait.  Makes me appreciate them more and it's been a good time for me traveling. I have been able to audition a ton of gear as I go and all it does is remind me that for this price range the Vandersteen's are giving me the best value and sound.  I go in realizing that there are other great speakers out there, but I've been really disappointed in most brands for various reasons.  

I like the direction Wilson is going with son in charge, but even with that silk tweeter, their drivers just don't get the job done for me.  You can hear the break up in the bass.  The sound to me is distorted, but the dealers are all trained the same way by pointing out how open and dynamic they are.  I've purchased systems from a few of these Wilson dealers over the years and know and like them.  I think they are still using paper cones for the bass and if so, you can't just dip them in goo and say they won't break up, plus that adds weight that throws them off. The other thing about paper cones is that they absorb water and sound different ever day.  Folks don't believe me, but it's true.  If you listen closely and have the right system, you can hear a small difference in sound daily as they will dry out or absorb water from the air constantly.  That's just fact and can't be avoided.  

Again, not a knock, just an observation. 

All is good and they will get here when they get here, lol.  :)

Thanks. I’m really looking forward to the carbon tweeters to break In. Any good suggestions on these well recorded jazz cymbals?

@nycjlee   I got my Treo CT on June 30.  They take quite a while to break-in, especially the carbon tweeter.  I used well recorded jazz cymbals to assess the tweeter break-in. Once they are ready to go, you can just sit back and enjoy!  Just finished listening to the SACD of Ray Brown's Soular Energy remastered by Analogue Productions. Those high piano notes played with vigor by Gene Harris have a bell like clarity...just gorgeous to listen to.

Congratulations on your Treo CTs!  Lots of smiles to come.

CT, you must be going crazy waiting for your Quatro CT to arrive. My Treo CT / Ayre AX-5/20 are still on their course to breaking in nicely. I really do love how fast these speakers perform. Just finish listening to Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho (live) by Al Dimelo...amazing.

Good news CT.  Listened for a couple hours this morning.  Some 60's Miles and the new Dirty Projectors vinyl.  Even the non Carbon version sounds great!

Yes the color is very rich.  Bill's are on the net if you google his system.  Just can't wait.

Congrats. on finally scoring the Quatros!  That dark brown metallic finish sounds real rich.  Can't wait to hear your reaction to them once broken in and ready to ride.

Well the Treos are in a great new home and the Quatros are being built. I had them paint them Audi Havana Black. Very dark brown metallic. Just sound outnits the same color as Bill Lowes 7's lol. Can't wait to see them. Ayre is installing the crossover directly in my AX5/twenty. I heard the Paradgim 9h and Focal Sopra 2 yesterday and neither was even close to what I hear with the Quatros. 

@ctsooner ....
thanks, really appreciate your thoughts and prayers.  True friends mean a whole lot more during these times than any speakers, components, etc.. The music is what lasts and consoles regardless of the medium.

Take care from an eventual member of the Vandy family.

I'm really glad you got to meet Johnny.  Praying for you mom as you know.  It really sucks and audio needs to take a back shelf, but I do hope you listen to your music as much as you can so you can keep your own sanity.  You are dealing with enough personally (you know what I"m talking about) and keeping your own health and sanity is the only way you will be able to deal with those around you ;).  Call or text if you want or need to in order to take your mind off of all of this.  Hang in there! Pete

Karl and CT thanks for contributing.  Currently I'm taking care of my mom who has stage IV colon cancer.  Certainly too busy now, and with uncertain funds, so my quest will have to wait.  I do know that when I'm able, Vandersteen will be my choice.  Yes, tired of tail chasing and the proverbial merry-go-round.  Just want to settle into some great speakers and listen to my favorite music and yet to be discovered music.

Yes, John is a great guy with down to earth advice.  My goal based on his input; Belles Aria integrated amp with the Treos.  If funds are tight, I'll look to some 2Ce.  Oh, any either of the two are going in the damn living room. Lol.  Tired of the old WAF!  You two enjoy your Sunday!  Best.....

I had a pair of Vandersteen 2ci's as my first pair of "hifi" speakers. Then went to some more accurate sounding kit speakers (North Creek) then some used Vandy 5's and then Legacy Focus SE.  I returned to Vandersteen Quatro woods when I had the opportunity and I'm glad I did.  The other speakers had their strengths (the North Creeks were magical driven by a BAT VK-75SE) but I just couldn't get them synchronized with my room (even the Vandy 5's).  You would think that the larger and more efficient Legacy's would be able to do a better job on the low end but there is no doubt that the Quatro's give me better (deeper, more controlled, higher impact) bass in my room with my electronics.

Still need to go out and listen to the Quatro Wood CT. I would love to liquify things a bit more on the top. 

I wonder how many current Vandersteen owners have come back after trying other speakers only to realize that they were "chasing their tails."

-Karl

I agree on chasing our tails.  I did that for years and years as I learned.  The more I learned, the less I chased. When I decided to change my system a few years ago, after keeping it in tact for well over 18 years, I knew I wanted to buy a system that worked best together.  I learned that not all outstanding components work good together.  

I decided to find a dealer I trusted as they know what products go best together.  That's when I met johnny Rutan at Audio Connection.  He too said to not chase my tail in my quest to upgrade.  I knew that I was limited on budget to what I was selling off (I had a lot of old systems that I have moved. I only have a few pieces left, lol).  I didn't want to listen to the Vandersteen's. I had a couple of listening sessions with them in the 90's at two dealers who didn't have them set up properly at all and weren't interested in moving them.

He just requested that I sit with my late father and brother (we were in NJ for a family wedding) and just listen to the Treo's.  I was hooked within minutes.  I was in shock at how great they sounded in his open front room.  I could only imagine how good they'd sound at home.  He ran Ayre amps and source.  No special power cords or anything else.  Then I auditioned the Quatro and after that I went down to his store again (nearly 3 hour drive) and auditioned the 5CT and 7's. Wow, was I hooked on the Vandersteen sound. Mind you, at this point I was out listening to Wilsons, Magicos, Maggies, ML, Salks, AudioZen, Focal....you get it. I was out trying to figure out WHAT price point would give me the best bang for the buck.  I didn't like much of what I was hearing.  There were a couple of speaker lines that I really liked a lot and Ayre gear was prevalent at so many shops or friends homes.  I noticed that the Vandersteen Treo and Quatro's sounded best for me.  I knew I eventually wanted a pair of Quatro's, but I didn't want to wait to get them, so I sold off some gear and bought the Treo's.  I ended up with the Ayre AX-5/Twenty as well as the Ayre QX-5/Twenty and a rebuilt Mac Mini server with Paul Hynes power supply that I'm selling as I want the top of the line Melco.  

As I have stated, I'm selling my cherry Treo's and once sold, I'll bring in the Quatro's.  If they don't sell, I won't be upset as i love the sound of the Treo's.  

The reason for the long post is because I had the time, but the point is, it's best for many of us to set a price point and figure out where we want to be in a year or so.  Then we can take our time to get there.  I personally love working through a dealer I trust. I have a few whom I like, but I go to Johnny over local dealers because he understands my needs and he won't let me go over budget. 

@aubullience thanks much for sharing your experience.  I concur, my next speakers will be Vandersteen as well.  I've never heard such an open sound that sounds so real and emotionally engaging.  I messed up by selling my Vandersteen 2ce Sig II.  I plan on getting them again or the Treos.  By the way I used to have Thiel CS 2 2.  It must be the first order and time aligned design!?  

As as a real good guy on this site has said, "you're chasing your tail".  I intend on listening to him once and for all!  Best.....

I owned Thiel 2.3s for a no. of years and have heard the higher-end Vandersteen models on a no. of occasions (sometime after purchase of my Thiels). My next speakers will be Vandersteen Quatro CT or Treo CT  (although I wish to check out the Golden Ear Triton models for a possible- and substantially more affordable- alternative, and see if they live up to their press). 
Re. Thiels, my model had some problems with edgy high-end (primarily with digital rather than analogue presentation (on my Rega planar 3 and then an older Linn LP12 with benz micro cart), but had all of the positive attributes of the Thiels as well, and were eventually tamed by component isolation, judicious cable selection, and dampening an overly-bright listening room that I had. I used them with an Ayre cd player and Ayre electronics, excellent their own right, but not the absolutely best match for the 2.3s. 
FWIW, I also heard the Thiel 2.4s sometime after I'd bought the 2.3's in a setup nearly identical to mine, and were definitely superior overall and without the edginess. Also, the folks with the (now-defunct) Audio Perfectionist journal, who had impeccable taste in gear and setup, were big fans of the Thiel line (though bigger fans of Vandersteen).
The Thiel are fabulous speakers, but a bit more system-sensitive than the Vandersteens, I'd say. While I've come to prefer the Vandersteen sound, it's easy to understand how many people would love their Thiels.

The non-CT Treo.  I heard the Treo immediately before at my brother's house.

Lim, are you talking about the Quatro's being a step up from the Treo's or the 3a's?

I just heard this speaker for the first time and thought it was very nice.  It's definitely a step up from the Treos.

Hifiman, I completely agree.  I've heard most of the top speakers out there under 100k and I've heard a ton of the esoteric's too and yes the 7 mk 2 are still my favorites and it's not close.  I'm still trying to sell my original Treo's to upgrade to the Quatro.  I've heard Vandy's with subs on them and my favorite by far are still using Vandersteen subs. They have been specifically made to mate with his speakers and the way his amps mate with your own amplifier to not change the sound characteristic seems to be the key.  Not putting down other subs at all as they can sound excellent, just saying that if you are spending the money on a Treo or higher, you really need to go hear the Vandersteen subs before making a decision.  He really does know what he's doing, lol.  Glad that he's got a transition plan in place for when he retires, if he ever does. He's still young and LOVES this business and music.  It's cool that his kids are so involved and loving it too.  He still will answer the phone when folks call in with good questions on his gear.  That's so rare for the size company he has.  

The one thing I can say with confidence...I have NEVER heard a properly set up pair of Vandersteens sound anything other than musical.  If you are into this endeavor for the music, pick the Vandys you can afford, set them up with care and enjoy the music.

Karl, I've got the ceramic Quatro Woods in black, also.  They sound magical to me.  I had a pair of the original Quatro cloth speakers, and found the Woods to be much more articulate, but still retaining the Vandersteen phase coherence and midrange sweetness.  I haven't heard the Quatro CT's but I would guess they are better for some listeners. (I have heard the 7's in Santa Monica - best speakers I've ever heard...) The ugly truth, however, is that I'm 61 and the ceramic tweeters may be a better match for my gradual hearing roll-off above 6K Hz.  (Sad but inevitable issue for all us baby-boomer audiophiles).

I have found a way to get better bass than even the larger Vandersteen speakers (5CT and 7) can manage, with a just pair of Quatros.  Get the Audiokinesis SWARM distributed subwoofer system ($2800.00) and you can leave the Quatro EQ system flat OR drop the response at 80 Hz down by 3dB per octave.  You'll need to drive the SWARM 950W amp separately with your preamp (use a splitter) and adjust the subwoofer levels and HF roll-off at 50-80 Hz with the SWARM amp.  Flat, non-resonant bass in any room down to below 20 Hz.  In addition, as you point out, speakers bigger than the Quatros are visually intrusive, even in a fairly large room.  The SWARM subwoofers are comparatively small - just one foot square by two feet tall.  

You can't get truly flat bass in any typical listening room with just two woofer locations - even with great, equalized woofers and a lot of room treatment.  The SWARM / Quatro combination gives you six locations which can be arranged to eliminate all the nodes and anti-nodes formed by standing waves in your room.  Simply the most realistic bass reproduction I've ever heard.

The more I read this thread, the more motivated I am in selling my Treo's.  First decent offer that comes, the Treo's will go to a good home and the Quatro's are on order! lol.  Glad Richard is getting the second generation ready to take over the business.  He's already branched out into amps a bit and let's see where that takes him.  I don't feel he will ever try and compete with the electronic companies, but he does have his vision of powered speakers being the best as you pair them with the speakers so you take out the variables.  the problem with American's is that for some reason we don't like powered speakers.  Too many want to play, trade and upgrade.  Personally, if Richard were to make a powered Quatro, I'd get that and sell off my Ayre AX-5/Twenty, lol.  In a NY minute I'd do that as the amp would be the perfect match for the speaker.  To me that makes sense, to the market, not so much I guess.  

Jim Thiel was the best.  I met him once and knew he was a perfectionist.  I do wish he would have passed on his knowledge to someone who could have carried on his legacy.  However, as hifiguys stated, that wasn't Jim.  Vandersteen is excellent as is ProAc, as are my Tannoys.  Yes, Senor Rutan is one of the best as well.  When/if I can afford a second system, it will consist of Vandies.  I really want the Vandy 1ci with a tube integrated, i.e. Line Magnetic.  Regards........

Thanks for the post. Are you of the Atlanta variety?  I agree with you about Richard. I only met Jim Thiel a couple of times, but he was a special cat that's for sure.  You nailed the Vandy's to a tee.  Some on the boards are tied into their speakers and won't give a serious listen to others and that's cool.  I still audition every speaker I have a chance to and that includes those I don't usually like.  I wasn't a Vandersteen fan until Rutan forced me to give them a listen. I went to his shop all the way from CT to buy new Proacs as Richard from Proac told me to go there. once there I was captivated that Vandersteen's could sound so awesome.  Blown away for sure.  Thanks.

I carried both Thiel and Vandersteen when Thiel was still Thiel.  I was a dealer, sort of retired now but going to do some low key stuff with existing customers.  I love the new Vandy stuff.  Does everything I love about my 5A's but there's an immediacy, albeit subtle, that is addictive.  For the person who asked why Jim Thiel didn't train someone, you would have had to have known Jim.  He even programmed the CNC routers in production.  He was a friend and I've spent many hours with him watching him design and develop and realizing I will always be a speaker designer wannabe.  Same with Richard Vandersteen.  All speakers are compromises of sorts but Jim's latest design before he passed and Richard's current stuff does the coherent phase stuff beautifully but addresses some of the compromises very well.  Best to all.

Ok, in a nut shell the CT is smoother, but still fully retains the Vandersteen's 'suddenness".  The staging and imaging are just a tad more accurate.  The changes are subtle.  I'd say a 10% gain, but when you have such a highly revealing systems, it's worth it to most people.  The gains are at the top end, but strengthen the coherence too based on my opinion.  Magic is the word I think of when listening to them set up correctly in a good room.  I've never heard them sound their best though as they keep getting better with better equipment.  That's what I love about Vandersteen's.  They give you what you pay for in the rest of your system.  His home made Carbon Fiber tweeters are just very special.  I have heard the new diamond and beryllium drivers from others and they just don't hold a candle to the carbon fiber drivers in my humble opinion. I know it's about implementation, but those B&W diamonds will spit on difficult passages and to me are fatiguing.  I'd rather speak with the salesperson after 3 minutes of listening and that's with their top rated gear on them.  Aways excuses from B&W fans against me, but even the sales person as the last store agreed with me and said he didn't like the new 803's either.  With the Ceramic tweeters that the wood and my Treo's have you get detail out the wazoo as well as a sweet enough high end, but I know what's out there is better and I want it.
That's why I'm selling my Treo's right now because to me the Quatro is the best value in the line as it's much closer to the 5 CT than it is the Treo CT or regular Treo.  

The differences?  Let me think for a second.

What do you experienced Vandy aficionados hear in the Quatro CT that is different than the Quatro Wood? Better imaging? Less grain?  What?

Nrenter..setup right the Amused to Death disc will have you looking over your shoulder...

CT...not much I can do to help you..I wonder IF he knows the Best Buy Marantz is SS ?
...people hear what they hear.
I find recentering myself with live, unamplified real music every week helps..
i did see Rickie Lee Jones last week in a smallish venue...amplified, two glasses of Vino sublime...even thru a PA. she still has it...IMO

Sort of related..the OP's dealer in ATL took my 5 a in trade..he coulda had Rosewood..oh well. Quatro CT vs 5 a is tough.. RV said nod to CT in mid in my room, not even close in bass weight, drive, etc..he did know I was not shopping for CT.

DARN you!!!  Reel to Reel?  Really?  Thanks a lot, lol.  Yes the Quatro's are what I want.  Like you I've heard them at a few places and they never ever disappoint.  No matter the room or the gear, they just do what they do and that's revealing music and bringing you in emotionally.  That's what all that detail will get you...emotionally attached. I have a thread going on VAndy 7's on Audio Asylum. I invite you guys to join in.  I have some guy trying to discredit my feelings on Vandy's by tell me that B&W C series speaker is better than the Treo and that he uses a Marantz integrated and it's better than my Ayre AX5 Twenty.  

I understand speakers will polarize.  That's the reality when we all hear so differently. Either he's trolling or he's serious and if so, he needs a trip to the audiologist, lol.  Hope to see some of you over there and feel free to share opposing views etc....Love the discussion.  No speaker does everything right regardless of cost.  You just can't or you'd have LIVE performances in your room daily.

You will sell them ! CT

i just replaced the AQ Type 6 shotgun Biwires for an LFD cable out of the UK..very nice el cheapo upgrade while I wait to do the Vandy amps.

On topic..I think I have heard Quatro CT at 4 dealers now...pretty consistently good in far ranging rooms..FOLLOW the excellent setup instructions and be precise and you will be rewarded..

BTW the 7's freaking sing with the Opus3 master tape copy whizzing by at 15" per second...

Yes the Vandy's are dynamic as well as tuneful.  Not just thump as even some great speakers really are.  When you listen to true subterranean cuts, you realize what you have or what has been missing.  Heck, Richard stopped trying to get a model 9 to the market, because he couldn't get multiple bass drivers to sound as good as the 7's or better.  They were just bigger.  Many companies have that problem and when you hear bass done correctly, you realize it.  Richard isn't the only one who gets great bass out of a speaker.  There are some, but not as many as some think. It's the most expensive part of the spectrum to replicate.

As for the treble, yes I think that CT tweeter would change things greatly.  I've heard the Focus tweeter.  The newest one I like, the last version did't do it for me in any of their speakers. I heard them locally as a dealer before I got Vandy's.  

Tom, update, I have my Treo's posted on one website, but I turned down a low ball offer.  Still selling them, lol.

I think what's most interesting about the low end is the articulation. I have a home made test disk that goes from 10 Hz to 300 Hz in 1 Hz steps. From the mid-20's up, the change in frequency is EASILY discernible. They don't produce chest thumping bass, but that's just because of how I have them set up. It just sounds right. Top to bottom. 

I'm an imaging freak, and the Quatro CTs present a crisply defined soundstage. Twice while listening today I turned down the volume because I thought I heard something I the house. Nope, it was in the recording. At another point, the dynamics startled me. So much fun. 

Agreed nrenter.  

I started this post with the typical fever of someone looking to get a new piece of gear.  I ended up finding a pair of almost new Quattro Wood (non-CT) in Ebony about 12 months ago.  I've been really enjoying them.  I really liked my previous speakers, Legacy Audio Focus SE but they were too big looking.  Shallow?  Perhaps but it was like having two soldiers standing guard in the room.  The Quattros are so much more discreet, even five feet our from the front wall.  Like the Focus, I am driving the Quattros with a Pass XA 30.5, the difference being 94 db efficiency for the Focus SE vs upper 80's for the Quattros. It does take a little more dB's for the Quattros to really open up compared to the Focus SE.  But I don't think they are a more difficult load for the XA 30.5 due to the reduction in low frequency duties.  

One thing that was surprising was the different nature of the the low bass between the two speakers.  The Focus have 48" of woofer staring at you (2 x 12" per speaker)  and you just assume it can do anything in the lower frequencies. But with the Quattros, the bass is bigger!  Much more forceful feeling.  Nice impact without sounding unnatural. The Focus never locked into the room like the Quattros.  I'm sure that some listeners would prefer one presentation over the other but for me the Quattros are better. 

The only aspect I miss about the Legacy Focus sound is the tweeter.  Those ribbons really sounded great in my room. Not that the Quattro is a slouch but it is not the same level of clean, crisp, natural sounding as the Focus SE.  Which is why I still think about the Quattro Wood CT!  Would it match or surpass those AMT ribbons?

I don't think it's fair to simply call the Quatro CT just a speaker (and to compare it to other speakers). It's part of a system with many components that aren't required / included with other speakers.

Yes, it's a 3-way speaker. However, it also includes a powered sub (one in each speaker, actually), a bass management equalizer (as part of each sub) to address low-frequency room issues, and it requires bi-amping though high-pass filters before the primary amplifier (and inversely addressing that low-end rolloff with the integrated sub amps). All of these features add to the Quatro CT's greatness.

So when you listen to a set of Quatro CT's, what are you actually hearing? An excellent time and phase coherent 3-way speaker? An amplifier releaved of low-frequency reproduction duties? Stereo subs? A bass management system? Trick question. The answer is "All of the above".

I'm driving mine with just an Ayre AX-7e. All I can say is "Wow!" (and I probably only have them half broken-in).

Why would it be an error? Maybe that was sarcastic, but I don't think so. What designer/manufacturer would want their name attached to what I posted? I've heard it from more than one designer/owner. It's not that their largest speaker isn't worth it or isn't a great speaker. Personally I've heard some folks largest offering an not liked it, but I have liked their 60k or so offerings better. Very few people or dealers have a room that can even handles many of the larger speakers offered. I was with a dealer last week who spoke about the sore spots in his room and how much it would cost to rebuild it and that most of his customers don't even know it. Very few dealers I've been to around the country don't have a problem with that 50-60hz reverb. Most rooms also seem over damped or don't diffuse early wall reflections so you get a lot of ringing. Again, we all have different takes and maybe you have never heard these things.

I missed the part where you said these things were said in confidence. My error?

First off why would I ever give the name of folks who share things in confidence ? It's been more than a few folks who have mentioned it. Others have spoken about liking the model below the top of the line in other threads.

Tom. I can't afford the 5CT lol. The quatros are the perfect size and price for me lol. Living the Treos even more since the upgrade to the Arye AX5 twenty. That's an amazing piece of gear.

Which speaker designers told you these things?

a bit off topic but I have found it hard to beat Unitiserve w Pardo linear PS but Aurender is on my short list as I am TIRED, very TIRED at lack of NAIM support and server has been in for service twice in 4 years..A trip to Canada for a comms board fix is just not cutting it.
I thought you would maybe leap on te 5 a carbons in walnut...?
that is on topic CT
best to you man

WAs out last week and heard some Wilson speakers again and I just can't get into them. I heard them with AR ref, Mac and Ayre Ref/20 stack. Aurender and Esoteric provided the Ayre gear. Mac CD provided that source and the NAD Masters CD player/DAC provided for the AR gear.

I thought my Treo's sounded better overall and were more engaging than any of the Wilson's. That just me not getting emotionally connected to the Wilson sound. For those who want that sound, I felt you couldn't beat the Aurender feeding the Ayre through the Alexis I think they call them (about 55k).

It just cemented me on the Quatro's to be honest. I have heard so many of the 30k and under speakers and most don't do it for me . Lot's of great sound and I see why you guys like many of the brands out there, but even within brands (Dynaudio) I like some, but not all. I rarely like the large top of the line 100k plus speakers from companies. When you speak with designers they will tell you that they make these behemouths because folks want large speakers for the price they are paying. They want the big sound even if that sound isn't as real or engaging as some of their other offerings. I find this to be very true based on many of the speakers I've heard. Again, that's just me. I will be interested in hearing the B&W D3 speakers. In the past I haven't loved their sound either, but the last diamond coated tweeters they used were their best offering so far (for me).

I really liked what I heard with the Aurender. I liked it a lot!. The interface as well as the sound and the look. I have liked in in every system I've listened to. I've heard the Ayre and Wilson's enough to know their sound, so I think I have an idea of what they were fed. I will be selling my rebuilt Mac Mini with Haynes linear power supply (including Amara, a professional ripping program and all the high rez songs to get one I think. I do believe it's that's good. Another friend of mine, who's a well respected poster on Audiogon has the exact opinion as I do too. He also is using a heavily modded Mac Mini. the is the first server I've heard that I like better.

So unless I can find another speaker under 15k that will beat the Vandersteen Quatro's, I'll be getting them. Still will need to move the Treo's though to be able to pay for said speakers, lol.

any updates ? CT

Well I'm putting the Treo's on the market as I want the Quatro's. I can't wait to get them in zebra wood. Heard the Theils again and they sounded better with Boulder gear. Not my cup of tea but they were better than what I heard in the past. It was a 3.7