Vandersteen 7 and room treatment

My son and I will be driving up through Tierra Amarilla

I’ve spent a bit of time up around TA.

Fellow NM here(Rio Rancho)

And the ex-FiL and I did a drive around Rio Rancho ~3 months ago.

Fellow NM here(Rio Rancho) and have Vandersteen Quatros in an ASC treated room. I started with the existing traps in place from the previous speakers that were in the same spots(Nola Viper 1AX). 1 half round behind and a bit to the outside of each speaker, 1 quarter round in rear corner, other rear corner is semi-open, and ASC panels center front wall, on the left wall, right wall and rear up by the ceilings. Speakers are 9" from the rear wall and slightly toed in to the listening seat  producing a very pronounced holographic soundfield. 

Dialing in the equalizers, bass levels and damping levels took no more than a day as the room response is pretty even and damped but not too much. I would start with a similar setup with your acoustic treatments and go from there. Feel free to PM me if you want, more than happy to help.

 the Vandersteen’s are still sitting on their pallets upstairs for the second week.

Good, let your ears take in the sound, then set up the Vandys. Dollars to donuts, I bet you'll never go back. Be sure to let us know your decision on the Forum.

Bob

So what did I do? Nothing. The Supratek Cortese LCR arrived. It made the Chapmans sound so spectacular that the Vandersteen’s are still sitting on their pallets upstairs for the second week. Maybe later this week. 

If it were me, I would remove all the panels and treatment and place the speakers in the listening position to determine what sounds best and then measure after that if you can.  Add the panels back in slowly.  I have become a fan of diffusion rather than absorption since it's been mentioned that you can kill the room when it gets too dead.

Personally I would start with all the panels in place, as you already know the room.
Then remove panels one by one.

Measurements with REW might be able to show a time domain comb, and keeping the early reflections low is usually better for imaging.

Whatever method you use will be a lot of trial and error, or trial and measurements along with listening.

It could make a good study though.

Now you guys have done it. Almost all are guilty. I see you on the Vandersteen forum, encouraging me to take a peek and I’m up til 3:30 am. I love the passion, humor, and style many of you share. The critical observations and advice have deepened my anticipation. It’s fun being an old man this excited about something other than my grandkids.I first heard Vandersteen model 2’s fresh out of the box in 1977. Couldn’t afford them at $900 on a social worker’s salary. Finally purchased a used  pair of 2 CE‘s in 2000. Owned them for many years before acquiring the Chapmans, who know they are probably going to be replaced and are sounding spectacular with some recent system and placement changes. The months-long factory renovation in 2021 had already elevated their performance and my pleasure to unprecedented heights. 
I believe I’m going to remove all 14 traps and panels and engage in a long process of multi-factor trials, beginning by the book. I better pick up some furniture slides. No idea what I’ll do if I end up with a bunch of no longer needed panels.  I know I’m not going to be able to just plunk the 7’s down and sit and listen for the rest of my life. A luxury dilemma 

Better than the speakers in a treated room looking out of ABQ, would be in front of a window in the more alpines or north NM… 😎

I’m tempted to clear the room of all the treatment and see what kind of sound I can get just by tuning the speakers.

The treatments that do bass are usually thick, or they are Helmholz resonators, bass traps, etc.

The thinner treatments on walls usually kick in at 100 or 200 Hz on up. So one either using things like the Vandy subs with tuning pots, or a DSP based like MiniDSP or Lyngdorf for the < 200 Hz region.

And using something like REW to get decay times and see what the modes are can help to try and get the treatments to address the problems. And also seeing the early reflection peaks,

Usually when one talks about whether active or passive methods are superior it is black-n-white argument. The best systems usually use passive methods, and layer in some active controls to get the rest of the way.

An example would be active cancellation in a headphone.
We can reduce the SPL by 15-25 dB passively with earmuffs.
If we tried to do that at 20dB actively we would need to be within 1% (or maybe it is 3% if we are doing 10log10 versus 20log10). That gets hard to do.
If we are within 10%, then we can get 10dB pretty easily, and that 10dB layers on top of the 15-25dB of the passive.

Basically I think that you will want some of your treatments to stay, and corner treatments may change to bass treatments. But some measurements might help to work through it. And I doubt that the treatments are helping a lot in the bass, but they might.

My son and I will be driving up through Tierra Amarilla to retrieve the speakers next week.

FYI: The donut munchers in Southern Co have little tolerance for speeds over the posted limit.

Thank you for the wonderful advice. Sorry I disappeared for a bit. Pulling major grandpa duty. My son and I will be driving up through Tierra Amarilla to retrieve the speakers next week. Beautiful drive through to mountain passes. I will be heading over to the vandersteen forum in the meantime

I have pair in woodshop 10 ft ceiling. Have drill press and radial saw behind lathe on left side. Right side have lumber rack. Sound very nice. Fly the richard out.

Yeah… we would need to fly him as he ain’t Irish, and it is likely 2x 500 miles from Hanford.

.

Thank you holmz. Albuquerque.

Just visited my ex FiL about 6 week ago, north of I40 and West of Coor’s road.
Got a load of chile and pasole from “The Fruit Basket”.

So that “80% of the 500 miles”, is north through Taos or Tierra Amaria?

(I did that drive one early morning out of TA, and spilled coffee on my new blue jeans. The dye in the new jeans produced a distressing colour on underwear.)

@wideload 

 Congrats! And welcome to to Vandersteen posse 😁

I agree, join the Vandersteen forum and you will receive great support from other members/users, and Richard himself who stops in frequently to add his knowledge and guidance.

Enjoy!

I have pair in woodshop 10 ft ceiling. Have drill press and radial saw behind lathe on left side. Right side have lumber rack. Sound very nice. Fly the richard out.

go to Vandersteen web site and ask richard

@wideload ,

As a Vandy owner, you are eligible to join the Vandy Forum.

Just go to the Vandersteen website and click on the right buttons.

There, I promise, you will be given the best information for setting up your speakers.

@holmz ​​@audionoobie , are there as well as a number of very capable members to help you.

And, +1 on a great score!

Bob

I just went through this with my Treo's. All of my room treatments were sucking the life out of my system and I could not obtain a strong and stable center image.

We don't add enough diffusion, between and to the sides of speakers. That really contributes a great deal to imaging.

Hey,

EQ always does better with the appropriate room treatment but with EQ we can reduce a little the need somewhat. Bass traps can actually make it possible to improve nulls, not to mention making bass tighter and more palpable.

My point is there’s a happy cooperation and mix between EQ and bass traps. I suggest you set your room up with the bass traps in place, measure, and adjust that first. Then take the traps out. :)

I also suggest you look at the room mode simulator.  It will help you see where the modes will be worst, and what you measure is probably a standing wave or not.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc

Measure, measure measure.

I just went through this with my Treo's. All of my room treatments were sucking the life out of my system and I could not obtain a strong and stable center image.

Here's what Richard Vandersteen wrote me:

Joe, it is very common for people to overdue room treatments.  Few people realize they cause holes in the clues that help us define the acoustic space we are in (very important for a natural effect).  I start with none and slowly solve problems as they show up and use the least amount of treatment needed.  I notice most rooms end up with about half the treatments normally recommended.

RV

Thank you holmz. Albuquerque. Dealer is in Colorado Springs. Spoke with him a couple of years ago when I was considering Quatro’s. Seemed like a really good guy but then life happened and a few months later, COVID. 
The vandortones disc and sound level meter will be included with the speakers as well as more explicit directions from the seller who is very experienced with room and speaker set up in general and the Vandersteen’s in particular. So I will begin with placement and then the 11 pots. I’m tempted to clear the room of all the treatment and see what kind of sound I can get just by tuning the speakers. I’ve seen YouTubes of Vandersteen at shows both with and without room treatment. I have heard the Quatro’s and 5’s sound sublime in different rooms, none treated. I currently have a mobility limitation which means 14 trips up and down the steps by someone else. The same someone else’s I will count on to lug the 7’s downstairs.  I’m hoping there are current or past Vandersteen owners who have added or subtracted room treatment and will share their insights. 

Nioce!
That is good find.

400 miles from where?
If it were a hundred miles more, it could possibly made a good song lyric?

There is a vandersteen forum.
Many would say just get their vandertunes and adjust the sub settings, using the manual.

A limited few might suggest something like a MiniDSP Flex, or a Lyngdorf TDAI amp.

But if these 7s have the 11 pots that do the sub bands, maybe start there?

…but it sounds like you want to use those pots and then get rid of wall treatments?