here is the link to the ps audio explanation of vertical and horizontal bi-amping. http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/bi-amping-horizontal-or-vertical/
Vandersteen 2Ci - Bi-wire cable question
This might sound like a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway. I see lots of bi-wire speaker cables with one pair wire connection to the amp on one side and two pairs (bi-wire) on the other/speaker end. I always questioned the wisdom and wondered how these cables are made. So here's my question: Are there any benefits in "converting" my regular speaker cables into bi-wire by simply splicing two short pairs of cables, of course same quality as the main cable with connectors on the speaker ends.The speaker in question is Vandersteen 2Ci which doesn't have jumpers. I'm also wondering how folks hook up regular speaker wires to these speakers.
Or, I should also ask if a bi-wire connection mandatory on these speakers? Thanks.
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gdnrbob ... Mr. V thinks vertical biamping less satisfactory than horizontal. That is, using one amp (monoblock) per channel, as opposed to splitting the signal.You seem to be confused about biamping. Horizontal biamping means using one stereo amplifier to drive the low frequencies - using one channel per side - and another stereo amp to drive the high frequencies - again, using one channel per side. Using only one monobloc per side is conventional amplification; it's not biamplification. |
I'm sorry I mistakenly wrote "bi-wiring" instead of "bi-amping". I have already "bi-wired" the speakers using a single stereo amp which has two pairs of speaker outputs. I was questioning the vertical "bi-amp" diagram in the manual which goes like this: Amp # 1 ..................> Left speaker Left +/- ....................> mid-tweeter cable Right +/- .................> bass cable --------------------------------------------------------------- Amp # 2 .................> Right speaker Right +/- .................> mid-tweeter cable Left +/- ...................> bass cable My confusion is about the bass cable connections which appear to be reversed. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. |
(((Bi-wiring only uses one stereo amp or two mono amps! Check that manual and it explains it!))) imagine 4 persons 4 heads 8 legs a 2 ch amp has 4 speaker outs R + - L + - 2 on left ch 2 on right ch Bi Wiring with speaker wire is like 2 home runs +-+-L +-+-R 2 positives tied to each other at the spade termination as 1 positive + 2 negatives tied to each other at the spade termination as 1 negative - As the speaker wire goes out to the bi wired speaker think of 2 pairs of pants it splits into 4 at the speaker 2 pos + 2 neg - Best, JohnnyR |
I posted a comment about general bi-wiring in a different thread but would like to ask a more specific question about the 2Ci and the directions in the manual. The manual recommends using two identical amps for vertical bi-wiring which makes sense but they show stereo amps not monoblocks and the wiring from each amp is such that one channel drives the tweeter/mid and the other channel drives the bass. So when done, depending on which channels are used- right or left, it looks like the channels driving the bass (or tweeter/mid) could be switched from right to left. Am I missing something or this makes sense to everyone else? |
The question about the sock was purely based on curiosity and having looked at the videos, they are clearly not designed for removal unless a repair is needed. Regarding the wires, I know there are a lot of great cables out there and I don't mean to rekindle a well exhausted debate around their benefits so with that been said, I went ahead and fished a second pair of 12 awg wires, just like the ones I already had from my amp to the speakers. Again these wires are nothing special and I've been using them with four different speakers and they've served me well. I must have to say adding the second pair did indeed make a difference. The most noticeable affect is a slightly better bass. Definitely noticeable. I'm guessing adding the second pair halved the load that the amp now sees from the speakers by technically halving the length of cables. All in all, it was worth the effort. Thank you all for guidance. These speakers do indeed sound very musical. |
I have a well-loved pair of 2ci's that I've been running with two pairs of Audioquest Indigo+ cables to an Aragon 4004 II amplifier, whose binding posts are big enough to accommodate two spade lugs per post. Since the 2ci (or at least my pair) have banana jacks, the speaker end spades are screwed into a pair of Straightwire spade-to-banana adaptors. Been using this setup for 20 years. Works for me. |
Yup, that is a long run. A nice set of AQ Rocket 88's would be your best bet in my humble opinion. A used pair can be found for not that much money and often turn up on Ebay or Audiogon. Audioconnection helped me reterminate a set of Rockefellers in to true Bi-wire. I need to see if he has any Castle Rock. Bob |
For that long of a run you need good wire. i had a L shaped layout with Vandy 3a signature with 20' runs - they benefited greatly with a shotgun biwire pair of Audioquest Type 6 wire. most of the questions you are asking are in the Ask Richard part of his website he strongly prefers bi-wire and external if possible |
In order to remove the sock (if that is what you are asking) you have to 1)turn the speaker upside down and remove the 7 screws from the bottom plate 2) You then need to pry off the bottom plate as it is glued on 3) There are then about 30 staples holding the sock on You need to remove them The sock is pretty tough 4) You can then roll the sock down Reverse process to put back Done it several times Not hard at all. |
I have gone through this with several speakers including Vandersteens I use AP Oval 9. There is a difference just not sure it is worth the cost. Notice I did not say better but different. The Vandersteens seemed more open and the driver blending seemed smoother. Same thing with PSB Silver i and and B&W Matrix 803 As for jumpers you can change the sound depending on what jumpers you use. I have 4 different ones and they all sound different. Add to that 4 different ways to hook up the main cable run and now it is nuts and worst yet they all sound different. Nordost and Audioquest have papers out there about jumpers and the various ways to hook them up as well as the common results and sad to say they are pretty much right on. I was shocked it really depends what you like. Give me the days back when I worked in the biz of most speakers having one set of terminals. |
Well, the mesh is not designed to removed. But it would be fairly easy to do it; there are videos on YouTube re driver replacement that show you how. But the speaker is not really "finished" underneath the mesh...so I don't think it would look great. That's how RV saves $$ to put into the drivers, crossovers, design, etc. |
You guys have talked me into it. I'll poke and see if I can fish another set of wires through the same path I ran the first ones. It'll be basically two roughly 20' long 12 awg wires from the two pairs of ports on the amp. I can't see any downsides and the wires are nothing special and quite reasonably priced. |
Well gentlemen, the speakers are in and hooked up. Heavy puppies with the Sound Anchor stands and they look practically new. Followed Johnny’s suggestion and made a set of jumpers using 8 awg wire and I really like the sound they make. Very open and balanced sound top to bottom with bass filled in just the right amount. Good soundstage and a wide sweet spot that allows others to enjoy the music as well. Overall very happy about the switch. As for cables, the challenge I have is that these speakers are in a room adjacent to the rest of my system and the I have a roughly 25’ long wire (12 awg) run through the basement to the speakers. The amp does have two pairs of outputs and I can try running a second pair from the amp if you guys think its worth the effort. The wires are nothing special and are cheap, its just the effort of fishing them through the wall, basement, etc. Thanks again for all the input. I can now see why these speakers have lasted the test of time and offer such a great value. |
I have the Vandersteen 2CE Sig II and Vandersteen highly recommend to use the BiWire. A true BiWire is a pair goes the the amp end then from the amp it split into two separate pair that goes all the way to the speaker end. It doesn't split at the end of the speaker wire so you actual have four wires through out the length of the speaker cable. If you go to Vandersteen website you can look and download the manual for the model 2s. It will show you the difference between the biwires. |
Thanks everyone for the input. I found a used pair locally and picking them up later tonight. Very excited. They are replacing a pair of MMGs that I bought a few months ago and as much as I liked their crisp sound and nice soundstage, I could not warm up to their sound texture and the extra narrow listening position. I'm also looking forward to getting a better bass foundation which the MMGs seemed to lack. It was definitely worth the experience. I'll let you folks know how I make out and will probably ask more questions once I get them hooked up. Thanks again. |
If you don’t want to bi-wire you can use these! http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQ1002G |
(((I'm also wondering how folks hook up regular speaker wires to these speakers.)) Run a jumper from the positive to the other positive Run a jumper from the negative to the other negative If your asking this question I would also suggest you read the well written owners manual. It will also address bi wiring and tiltback. Bi Wiring is an advantage to the amps recovery if the bass / mid Hi sections are independently run, the load the amps sees from woofer excursions is better dealt with. Whatever wire you run on the top run the same on the bass. Best, JohnnyR |
