I maintain every electronic component in an “on” status. For tube gear having a “standby mode”, then I use that mode when not listening to the system.
Value of burn/break in?
I have my first hi end audio system. I fired it up, popped in a cd, and it doesn't have the vibrant sound that I thought it might have. I have a slightly used demo power amp from a dealer, slightly used demo speakers from a dealer, but a brand new tube preamp. A friend of mine told me that I will see a huge difference in sound quality once the tube preamp breaks in. I was wondering if I should get a break in cd or just wait till normal listening does the job
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All vacuum tubes exhibit continuous long term drift when put into service—plate current falls and grid bias shifts. This gradual slide reflects a persistent degradation that begins at initial turn-on and ultimately ends in cathode depletion failure. (Barring other common modes of premature demise, e.g. open filaments, vacuum leaks, gassing, microphonics, atypical distortion, excessive hum/noise.) So vacuum tubes are not a wise choice when stable circuit performance is a serious design goal. |
In the case of cables and wire, especially tonearm wire, interconnects but also any wire, complete burn in never occurs without resorting to some break in means other than simply playing music for several hours a day, or even ten hours a day. This can be easily demonstrated by using the AudioDharma burn in machine on cables that have already been broken in for, say, two years or whatever while in the system. Music is neither the optimum signal to achieve complete break in nor is it high enough in level. And it’s an old wives tale than fuses break in correctly no matter which way they were originally inserted. This can be shown to be false by reversing the fuses one at a time and observing by listening which ones were inserted in the correct direction and which ones weren’t. |
I have found 3 levels/processes of burn-in that operate in audio systems. Each is real (judging by subtle but perceptible sonic results) and has its own time requirements: 1 - New electronics:: Solid state electronics as well as individual tubes benefit greatly from burn-in when new. My nominal/minimum burn-in time for any new component is 100 hours. BTW, burn-in for certain purely SS pieces can be much longer. For example, my two Audio GD multi-bit DACs (NOS 19 & DAC-19) each required ~400 hours before the sound stopped changing and stabilized. Other owners of these DACs had warned me of this extensive burn-in requirement...they were right. 2 - New speakers/headphones: These need ~100 hrs initial burn-in. 3 - Initial turn-on of system: As others have mentioned, SS units (ones that have already had initial burn-in) benefit from simple warm-up when first turned on (usually 15"-30" does the trick) and can be left on 24/7, particularly line-level components (vs amplifiers). I've also found that certain tubes require ~30" initial warm-up before sounding their best. |
I purchased an entry level tube pre 2 years ago , a Rogue RP-1. After two weeks I changed the 2 12AU7’s and after 4 or 5 pairs, settled on Telefunkens . Then I auditioned 3 different power cords that are under $125 ea . Both made a huge difference . But the greatest improvement was dumping the JJ tubes . I tried all NOS pairs and every single pair trounced the JJ’s . So what Pre do you have and what tubes did it come with ? You’ll be pleasantly surprised with the change . Also keep the other tubes that you buy while experimenting for when you change components, cables or move your speakers . I’ve gone back and switched to adjust for system changes. Happy Listening , Mike. |
When I bought Cary Audio SLP 05 preamp, it sounded horrible out of the box. Billy Wright of Cary Audio told me to leave the preamp on with amps off and play something like a radio through the preamp continuously for 50-75 hours (Friday through Sunday). It made rather dramatic change which continued for next week or so with usual listening sessions. I don’t know if that will breakin the wires (interconnects might be but not speaker wire). Good listening! |
I'm breaking in two new things...a Pangea wall plug and a new belt for my Linn table. The wall plug's most important job is to power a REL sub, which it did right off the bat with zero break-in. Amazing. The Linn belt also seems to accomplish the task of making the platter go around also with zero break-in, which makes me suspicious of both these items...were they used previously? Hmmm... |
I dont think anybody has mentioned the acoustics of the room. Speaker placement and angle can only get you so far. The room needs to be tuned which involves using absorbion and diffusion. If the speakers present a boomy or loose sounding low-end then bass traps are probably needed. Plugging a speaker port may help, but it will also affect the sonics, IOW you won’t get the full dynamics or best timbre from the speaker. If the room is too lively, the issue of brightness may not stem from the speakers, but may be due to room reflections causing standing waves. This would be dealt with using absorbion panels in the key areas of reflection. A setup disk can be very useful in determining speaker placement, but tuning the room will improve the overall sonics, improve clarity, and help reproduce the music as it was originally recorded. |
Here’s a tool that can help one properly set up their listening room and system. https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php That test is also available on the Chesky Records Jazz Sampler & Audiophile Test CD Vol. 1(as well as other test CDs). Stereophile(though I’m not a fan of the mag) ran an article regarding it’s usefulness: https://www.stereophile.com/features/772/index.html They bemoan the fact that the LEDR doesn't help one test soundstage depth. The Chesky CD does have a demo, that helps one learn to listen for that too. |
easola said: "n80...so you noticed bass tightness and soundstage with minor adjustments in speaker angle? Interesting! " No, not just speaker angle but also distance from the wall/corner. My speakers also have a bass port in the rear. Not sure how this changes the equation. The manufacturer actually makes a foam plug for those ports. I'm assuming that is for when the speakers are too close to a wall/corner and the bass is too boomy. Of the two variables (angle vs room position), small changes in room position made the most difference. In my case, moving them away from the corners (I'm talking 6 inches or so) decreased bass more than I wanted it too and I'm wondering if I need to play with a sock on the bass ports as well as position. "Will try but I have read that pretty much everyone puts their speakers toed in at about 45 degrees so there is a triangle listening arrangement " Most of the things that come up on a Google search of the issue says this is true. I think it is based on the fact that high tones are very linear and focused. But even reputable (looking) sources say a lot of conflicting things about speaker set up. Most say speakers should be spiked a few say they need to be isolated. |
If folks would use the speaker set up track on XLO Test CD or similar Test CD instead of guessing by trial and error they would probably find that speakers should usually have no toe in. They would probably also discover that their speakers are too far apart, which partially explains why they toe the speakers in. Trying to find the absolute best speaker locations by ear is like trying to solve n simultaneous equations in n+x unknowns. The best you can do that way is find local maximums. |
have read that pretty much everyone puts their speakers toed in at about 45 degrees so there is a triangle listening arrangement Toe-in depends on many factors. 45 degrees is common if you’re sitting close in the near-field. Different speaker designs and room acoustics will dictate the angle of toe-in. My setup is in an equilateral triangle, but due to the dispersion from my speakers they are firing almost straight ahead. This is what the designer John Devore recommends and the soundstage and image are right on the money. There are different theories on how to set up speakers, but whichever method you use, it’s always time consuming. Taking measurements, listening, adjusting position, then listening again. And each time you adjust the speakers it should be in small increments as stated above. One inch may get you to that perfect soundstage. It should be mentioned that the rake angle of the speakers will play an important role in setting your desired sonics and image. |
Speaker placement is fundamental to good sound (as is the speakers' dispersion pattern-but we can't change that!). I suggest you try the following: measure room width and place the spkrs at ~45% of that width from the back (i.e. behind them) wall and ~25% of that width from the side wall. Measure from the centre of any unit (say, the woofer). Listen and then fine-tune the sound moving the speakers in very small increments. Good luck! |
Great advice. Experience the process of the change! That sounds logical. n80.....I wish I could fiddle with speaker placement. My system, unfortunately, has to be placed in my bedroom. No room for moving speakers, they are constricted in opposite corners of the room. The limited space also doesn't allow for much fiddling with room treatments...so I purchased a Dspeaker antimode 2.0 dual core room correction device. Looking forward to calibration on that. |
I'm also new to hifi and had a similar experience with a system that had been sitting a few years (tube pre-amp). First listen and I was like, "what's all the fuss about this hifi stuff" and was very unimpressed. Now, my test was hardly controlled and I think that speaker positioning and then ultimately a room change helped a great deal but even before that I think some run time did indeed make a difference. From one beginner to another, do not underestimate room and speaker placement. |
I'm an old school guy and like to burn/break in myself and listen to the gradual changes in my sound system. It seems that listening to your audio system by using your ears is a lost art these days. Also keep in mind when running your tube phono preamplifier or any other tube gear you have 24/7 will lower the overall life of those vacuum tubes. |
Some good suggestions. I wish I could leave it on, but I am a truck driver and gone most of the time. Amarg....good points about my speakers and power amp as far as burn in, and then also my interconnects and power cables which are all brand new as well. Hifiman 5 said be patient...sounds appropriate |
It took about 350-450 hours of break-in time for me for the various high-end electronics, speakers and cables to approach 90-95% of perceived maximum performance levels. There was a continued incremental settling in period after that that I did not track in detail. (1) the audio performance improvements were non-linear, .... but rather an ad hoc series of incremental steps with periods of pause or flatlining in between. (2) it was never a sudden” a-ha “ moment either, but rather a subtle journey. (Emphasis on the “journey” instead of any “destination” conotation) = Patience required .... |
almarg I have no opinion about breakin CDs, though, as I’ve never used one and I have no particular knowledge of the technical characteristics of the signals they provide. Generally the signal is a mixed sinusoid White and or Pink noise mid range signal played at a moderately high level continuously for a minimum of a few days up to two weeks or more. Works like a charm for everything in the signal path. As I mentioned earlier one can easily hear the improvements over the course of the burn in. |
A friend of mine told me that I will see a huge difference in sound quality once the tube preamp breaks in. I was wondering if I should get a break in cd or just wait till normal listening does the job. Assuming the tube preamp does not contain significant digital circuitry, whether it is playing music or simply powered up and playing nothing makes very little difference in the amount of current conducted by the tubes and pretty much everything else in it. So I would expect that simply leaving it on would break it in as effectively as normal listening. (That is not necessarily true for most power amps and many digital components, btw). I have no opinion about breakin CDs, though, as I’ve never used one and I have no particular knowledge of the technical characteristics of the signals they provide. Also, given that the power amp and the speakers are "slightly used," and might have sat unused for much of the time they were in the dealer’s shop, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that their breakin state might be more of a factor in what you are perceiving than the preamp’s. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
@easola01, I previously bought a new Ayon CD-5s tube cdp which I ran as a rbcd player & line stage. To accelerate the break in process I ran an Isotek Full System Enhancer cd when I was at work or out of the house. It is supposed to more thoroughly burn in the component by giving it a ’work out’ via specific algorithmic signals, as well as demagnetize the system. From memory, it roughly halves the normal run in time. More recently I bought a Purist Audio Luminist System Enhancer cd which is supposed to be even better, however I haven’t tried it yet. It should be noted some manufacturers post warnings in Instruction manuals to avoid using burn in cd’s. I think that’s to mitigate against the few dodgy burn in cd’s which exist and the doofuses who use them. All I can say is I had no issue whatsoever running the Isotek cd on my Ayon. The two cds I mentioned above are probably the best. Cheers. |
