John:
I am using VAC KT88 tubes too now. I plan on sticking with those.
Here's what I have liked for the rest. In place of 12AU7s for the three amp section driver tubes on the right front I am using three Philips E80CC SQ - a 12AU7 variant with a higher filament current requirement. I checked with VAC and this is fine to use in this spot. However, it is not OK to use the E80CC as a sub for the 12AU7 needed in the rear left preamp section. I don't know whether the E80CC will work for the 160i.
The preamp 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes I am using are NOS Raytheon long blackplates, i.e., one of each.
This combo works well for me. What have you liked? |
Agriculturist, I am using NOS 12AX7's and 12AU7's in the 160i, but I am currently using the VAC KT88 tubes. What KT88's are you using? Have you tried any Gold Lions, EAT, Psvane, Northern Electric, etc.?
Cheers,
John |
It is a fixed value as far as I know. |
Thanks for this info John and Agriculturist.
Does the MC input of your 160iSE offer selectable resistive loading values through a rotary switch of some kind or is it fixed at the factory?
Will try to connect with either Kevin or Brent to discuss the MC input options.
Thanks again.
|
Here is what I know about this in relation to the 160iSE. You will as always get the best advice from Kevin and Brent which is where I got mine. As you say your Ortofon will likely not have quite enough output for the 160iSE. But given the very low noise/EMI/RFI etc that at least I experience from the phono section of my 160iSE I could perhaps get away with keeping the volume dial at 11 am or 12 noon. The other option is to send the amp to VAC and have them double the step-up ratio. All of this may be possible for the 160i too. You should call them and see. I do know the SUT in the 160iSE is very good indeed. Don't know about the VAC160i. I used my old VAC separates with Bob's Blue Cinemag 1:20/40 SUT, but I now get much better sound from my records with the VAC MC input. Part of that is everything else about the 160iSE, but part of it is also surely the very high quality SUT built into the VAC160iSE. |
Kevin Hayes told me that the line stage has 22 dB of gain. |
Do any of you happen to know what the combined (preamp/amp section) gain is for the 160i. Specs shows only the gain for MM at 37db and MC at 57db but not the amp itself. I am seriously considering replacing my ARC separates with a Sigma 160i but with an Ortofon A90's output of ,27mv i may not have enough gain to drive my Verity Parsifal even with the MC input option of 57db. A way around this would be to use the MM input along with a SUT like those Bob's Devices make but still, need to know what the unspecified amp section gain is.
Thanks guys. |
@Wig, keep me posted on your upgrade adventure. I may be interested in moving up to the SE one day myself. |
The Vac 160i is a great amp and I'll upgrade mine to the SE at some point. |
I am sure you made a good decision JMcgrogan, I believe better parts, input transformers etc, many the same as the Statement amps. Here is what the VAC website says:
"The Sigma 160i SE (Special Edition) enhances performance by upgrading the input transformers and many passive parts to the types used in the premium Statement instruments. Greater size, detail, speed, and weight is the result."
This is also what Kevin and Brent had explained to me.
I think you will be very happy with your purchase. Enjoy it! |
I finally broke down and bought a VAC 160i, picked it up today. First impressions are very good. More powerful and dynamic than my previous separate setup (Cary preamp/VAC amp). The separates may have the edge with a creamy midrange, probably due to the EL34 Mullard Xf2 tubes. Overall I am really digging the 160i.
Agriculturist, do you know the differences between the 160i and the 160iSE? |
Hi Rcprince:
Yes, firing straight out is how I have the NOLA Metros too. Mike had suggested that to me. That is how he had them set up and he does know these products well and is great to work with. They disappear quite effectively in my room tis way.
The new NOLAs will be interesting to hear as well in Brooklyn.
Kevin and the VAC team will have their 450IQ amps set up with Focals as well and that will be interesting to hear. Mike mentioned that was about the best sound he has heard.
Thanks |
I came very close to getting the 160i to use with my Nola Micro References, but fell in love with the Shindo sound so got a Monbrisson preamp and a Phi 200 amp. Got the amp and speakers from Mike Oltz (Xtreme Fidelity); I will second him as a fine dealer who really knows how to show the strengths of these two products. Those with the opportunity should check out his setup at the Brooklyn show.
I have a similar problem to Wrm 57's, as the amp is very sensitive and the Shindo has a lot of gain, so it has been difficult to get past 7 o'clock on the Shindo's volume control. Ultimately I have used some 12db attenuators to solve the problem, seems to work quite well.
Not sure at this point if I have any suggestions for the OP, sounds like he has a great combination. How do you have the Metros set up--toed in or firing straight out? Short or long wall? I know Carl has told me to go straight out/long wall placement in my fairly small room, and I've been happy with the setup, curious if you've tried otherwise. |
I use the VAC 160I with Sonus Faber Minima Vintage Speakers and it is fantastic. |
Thanks M-db. Hope a VAC is in your future.
And thanks for the follow up info Wig. |
Tboooe, don't know the Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution specifically, but I have heard some great SF speakers in shows and dealer rooms. Also superb for midrange and vocals particularly I recall and have read. So sounds like a good match with VAC. The Evolution's 86db sensitivity might permit the use of the 160iSE. I guess you would have to demo it. As I mentioned the NOLA Metros are rated for 87db. You might be able to borrow a 160i from a dealer or someone to test the power aspect and then order a 160iSE. Or of course do a home demo of the 160iSE if that is possible. Would be worth a try would be my thought. |
Agriculturist,
The KT88Z Black Treasures are what I'm using now and I've noticed the best sound at the 340 hour mark. They don't have the top end extension of the GLs but they are superior in every other area.
I almost bought the Psvane TII but was warned by others not to buy them based on reliability issues and hear they a tad better the BTs.
Happy Listening! |
Also, thanks Jmcgrogan2. Simplicity was a major factor for me too: fewer cables, less space, fewer connections to fuss with. Easier and cheaper to swap (and check tubes) as needed was another important factor. Lower power draw was a factor too. Originally I was thinking of the 160i which my guess is would have been the approximate sonic equal in my set-up of the separates I had before. BTW the VAC separates I had before were 2 and 3+ years old, and so probably did not include all the updates that Wrm57 just got on his set.
Wig, I am now using PSvane KT88 T-IIs as power tubes and these seem perhaps just a bit better than the VAC KT88SCs that the unit came with. I may eventually try some of the other Chinese tubes that you mentioned. Did you ever try the Shuguang Black Treasures? I hear they need 200-300 hours of burn-in? I would probably have them professionally tested and burned in if I ever tried them.
Kevin mentioned once in the context of my 300.1a that one needs to take particular care with power tubes in these applications. I had until recently been using some NOS-fitted KT88 socket savers which may have been the cause of some new stock tube failures as the fit was rather tight. I would love to get some NOS Genalex tubes but they seem extinct or available only as used and very expensive. |
Nice. Thanks for taking the time and sharing. I became disy at the thought of racking a four component dual mono preamplifier from a recent periodical review. Good to hear that many of the older mark designers are putting their best ideas and efforts into integrated amplifiers. It's interesting how the eveolutionary path takes us to separates only to consider the improvement that eliminating cables and their terminations may have, not to mention the simplicity.
I have vivid momories of my first hearing and touching a VAC system. My first thought then, some day, still burns hot today. Congratulations!
Color me green with envy. |
Agriculturist,
Congrats on your Vac purchase! I have some matched quad GLs and I prefer the Shuguang KT88Z from Grant, much more musical, better decay and lifelike imaging.
I'm loving my Vac 160I and will upgrade to the SE at some point... |
Wrm57 I can't say that the outperformance is night and day. The 300.1a was certainly beautiful sounding, the best I had heard till then. And I may not have had all the updates. I ran the amp in fixed mode and used the preamp's volume controls. I almost never had the volume knob past 9 o' clock with digital, only with vinyl.
Truemaineiac, thanks for the tip on the Genalex reissues. Might try them. |
You can't go wrong following the advice of Kevin Hayes or his team at VAC. I heard the 160i in a demo and it was certainly excellent so it is interesting to learn of the SE version and to get your insights. I found that when I had my Avatar Super that the best tubes were Genelex Gold Lion re-issues. Good luck. |
Congrats on what must be a dynamite system. Very interesting that the integrated outperforms the bigger VAC separates. I just received a fully-updated 300.1a a few days ago. The new tubes are burning in but it sounds great already.
Don't want to derail the thread but I have a quick question about your experience with the 300.1a and Ren III preamp. Did you run the amp direct from the preamp, by-passing the front panel pots? This amp has sure has a lot of gain, and that preamp has a lot of gain, too. I'm curious whether you felt the need to back it off a bit by switching the amp to variable. My Phi Beta preamp, which is quite a bit lower in gain than the Ren, limits me to a fairly small range on the volume control when the amp is switched to direct. |
Nice post, congrats on the VAC and the NOLA's!! I've long been a fan of Kevin Hayes, as a person and as a manufacturer. He has a great ear and is very honest. I still regret selling a VAC Avatar Super integrated amp that I was using a few years back, it played well above it's price tag. I'm still using a VAC amp, but I would look forward to going back to a VAC integrated amp one day for the sake of simplicity, as well as knowing that it is NOT a sonic sacrifice at all.
Enjoy the music! |
Thank you for the feedback. I am looking at the VAC integrated for my Sonus Faber Evolution monitors. My only concerned that my speakers require a lot of power to perform at their best. Ideally I would love to try SET but that is definitely out of the question given my speakers. |
