FWIW I am switching back to VAC's KT88-SC going forward. Sound is just great I now find and the reliability factor is top class. They test their tubes thoroughly for use in their components.
VAC 160iSE integrated with NOLA speakers
Given the superb home audio that I have been enjoying recently thanks to my new VAC 160iSE integrated coupled with my NOLA Metro Grand Reference 2 speakers and Synergistic Research cabling/power, I thought I would post a few brief comments about my set up for those who might be looking into any of these products. When making my recent amplification changes the enormously talented team at VAC gave me open and very insightful advice, as I hear they always do to anyone trying to set up a system with products of his design. By the way I understand that there will be a very similar VAC/NOLA set up by Mike Oltz of Xtreme Fidelity (who sold me my VAC160iSE) will be exhibited at the upcoming September 2014 audio show in Brooklyn, so there is an opportunity for anyone interested to hear this set up for themselves.
VAC’s 160iSE integrated puts out 85 wpc just like the original 160i, differing from the original in having (as I understand) a superior transformer, and also a special phono stage (that I have yet to use). It uses trickle down technology from VAC’s statement products. I had and loved the VAC 300.1a and Renaissance Mk3 preamp before the 160iSE. Given that my 87dB NOLA Metro Grand Ref 2 speakers don’t need the extra power, I decided to trade them on Audiogon for the 160iSE especially after hearing from Kevin Hayes at VAC that the new integrated performs in some ways at the level of VAC Statement products.
Having had the VAC160iSE at home now for two or more months or so, I can only say that the sound it produces in my system is truly fabulous – superb, open, rich mid-range without any edge and full of presence, great clean high frequencies. And I never find myself missing anything in the bass area compared to what I got from my NOLAs using my old higher powered VAC electronics. By the way, the NOLA Metros reach down into the low 20 hz region. I should also say that my room measures about 21 feet X 14 feet X 8.5 feet, and I understand that for larger rooms I might need more power or more efficient speakers.
The VAC160iSE definitely outperforms in very gratifying ways my previous, already superb VAC separates. And while I don’t really know the ultra high-powered VAC Statement system, I have heard it with NOLAs similar to mine, and based on that I would tend to echo Kevin’s insight about the 160iSE relative to those amps, although of course there is a big difference in the wpc output which probably has an impact in some ways. Since it needs far fewer tubes and has all its tubes out front, it is friendlier both cost-wise and logistically for tube swapping.
I should also say that I also very much like my NOLA Metro Grand 2s, with their open, 3D and natural yet detailed sound, and their (from all that I have heard) unequalled way with vocals. They are an excellent match with VAC amps. I understand that NOLA has a brand new upgraded Metro Gold version (newer even than the Gold version he introduced last year) that is a significant advance over earlier Metros. So I am looking forward to hearing those in September at the Brooklyn show.
My cabling is SR Element Tungsten, and I also use SR’s PowerCell8 Mk 3 which is a very helpful thing in NYC. I have had extremely positive outcomes using SR’s innovative UEF technology based bullets, HFTs, FEQ, ECTs, XOTs, etc. Their excellent products definitely work very “synergistically” with the rest of my set up.
Perhaps those with similar audio set ups or preferences have suggestions of interest for me. Look forward to those.
Thanks
VAC’s 160iSE integrated puts out 85 wpc just like the original 160i, differing from the original in having (as I understand) a superior transformer, and also a special phono stage (that I have yet to use). It uses trickle down technology from VAC’s statement products. I had and loved the VAC 300.1a and Renaissance Mk3 preamp before the 160iSE. Given that my 87dB NOLA Metro Grand Ref 2 speakers don’t need the extra power, I decided to trade them on Audiogon for the 160iSE especially after hearing from Kevin Hayes at VAC that the new integrated performs in some ways at the level of VAC Statement products.
Having had the VAC160iSE at home now for two or more months or so, I can only say that the sound it produces in my system is truly fabulous – superb, open, rich mid-range without any edge and full of presence, great clean high frequencies. And I never find myself missing anything in the bass area compared to what I got from my NOLAs using my old higher powered VAC electronics. By the way, the NOLA Metros reach down into the low 20 hz region. I should also say that my room measures about 21 feet X 14 feet X 8.5 feet, and I understand that for larger rooms I might need more power or more efficient speakers.
The VAC160iSE definitely outperforms in very gratifying ways my previous, already superb VAC separates. And while I don’t really know the ultra high-powered VAC Statement system, I have heard it with NOLAs similar to mine, and based on that I would tend to echo Kevin’s insight about the 160iSE relative to those amps, although of course there is a big difference in the wpc output which probably has an impact in some ways. Since it needs far fewer tubes and has all its tubes out front, it is friendlier both cost-wise and logistically for tube swapping.
I should also say that I also very much like my NOLA Metro Grand 2s, with their open, 3D and natural yet detailed sound, and their (from all that I have heard) unequalled way with vocals. They are an excellent match with VAC amps. I understand that NOLA has a brand new upgraded Metro Gold version (newer even than the Gold version he introduced last year) that is a significant advance over earlier Metros. So I am looking forward to hearing those in September at the Brooklyn show.
My cabling is SR Element Tungsten, and I also use SR’s PowerCell8 Mk 3 which is a very helpful thing in NYC. I have had extremely positive outcomes using SR’s innovative UEF technology based bullets, HFTs, FEQ, ECTs, XOTs, etc. Their excellent products definitely work very “synergistically” with the rest of my set up.
Perhaps those with similar audio set ups or preferences have suggestions of interest for me. Look forward to those.
Thanks
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JMCGrogan2: I can vouch for the Furutech Nano Liquid. Don't know anything about the Stabilant treatment you used. I got the best impact from cleaning and treating my speaker posts which were dirty and the speaker cables, as well as all digital cable contacts between MacMini, USB converter and DAC. Where the cables/component connectors were newer I got less benefit, and where they were older and more muck and oxidation had collected I got correspondingly more benefit. The DeOxit on all IC and PC connectors was a big plus for sound initially. And later on I cleaned all the IC and speaker connectors again and applied the Nano liquid, and then I got another big bump up in sound. As I have learned, after cleaning with DeOxit, you must clean the muck off the connectors with 99% isopropyl alcohol. I actually even cleaned some easy to reach male AC receptacles and USB receptacles in various components. |
KngHifi, yes, I believe the transformers in the 160iSE are the same as in the Statement gear, so probably the Lundahl statement level ones. Your 200IQ sounds like it must be great, perhaps better than my integrated I suppose. As I understood it, an advantage of the integrated is the direct coupling of the tubes to the transformers (?) - that is no use of capacitors. But I am no expert in these matters so I am not sure if I am describing this properly. No, the KT120 and KT150s cannot be used in the 160iSE from what Kevin and Brent told me. I have seen good benefits from using Stillpoints - LPIs above as weights on the chassis and ultra aluminums below in damping chassis resonance. I imagine this is one area that VAC probably had to make some compromises, at least relative to the Statement gear, given costs and available chassis space. I am going to try a couple of HRS DPX damping plates on top of the Transformer casings in the next week. I have the amp sitting on top of a SR Tranquility base which is very helpful too. |
Have ~25 hours on my VAC SigMKIIa pre upgraded to SE and hearing similar improvements described from 160i to 160iSE. Blacker background, lower noise, improved transparency, organic, timbre, musicality ... a totally different preamp and for the cost of upgrade, HIGHLY recommended! Their were minor circuit changes removing a pair of 12au7 ... according to Kevin Hayes, major change is using statement level Lundahl signal transformers. I assume 160iSE is also using statement level transformers? I was talking to Kevin and he said 200 IQ can also roll KT120 and KT150. He hasn't roll KT120 but KT88 beats KT150 in factory and dealer demos. I wonder if 160iSE can also roll KT120 and KT150? Two interesting videos. 200 IQ will trip before blowing a fuse if output tube fails. Now great tube sound with SS low maintenance? Interview with Kevin Hayes on 200 IQ VAC 200 IQ in action |
Glad to hear that you like the SE John. I still love the sound of mine for sure. Recently I cleaned out all my power and signal cable connectors with Deoxit, then cleaned with 99% alcohol, and finally put some Furutech nano liquid on the signal cable connectors. Every thing sounds cleaner and more lively now. |
As an update from me, I have upgraded to the 160iSE from the 160i. The most noticeable difference for me was the black background. The 160i sounded like a tube amp, with some tube noise residue, the 160iSE is dead silent. The midrange is very similar, but the SE version has a tad more resolution in the bass and highs. I am using a Audio Horizon Platinum Reference fuse at the moment. I may have to go back and try the stock fuse again. |
agriculturist OP76 posts04-15-2016 11:33pmFWIW as an update I went back to using the stock VAC fuse from the SR Red fuse and now find myself actually liking those best. I know another VAC owner prefer the stock fuse in his 300.1a and audiophile fuse in Ren MK3 pre. Trust your ear! |
Just to mention as a further update, that I now find that double damping all tubes in the VAC 160iSE - i.e., preamp, input, output sections - works better than single damping. That is I am now using two of Herbie's HAL-O III dampers on each tube in the VAC. Results are just better - more of the same good stuff. |
Thanks Fplanner2000, I am probably going to go that route. Since I also like the black faceplate with gold knobs combo that I currently have. It would make it even harder to find a SE for sale that has that black/gold combination. Also, as you mentioned, I don't need all of the upgrades. I don't use the phono stage, and I don't need balanced inputs since I am using High Fidelity cables. |
Just an update about what I now find to be the best placement of the two Stillpoints LPIs I have. The first one remains in the triangle between V2, V6 and V8. The second one is in the very front left, in front of the two phono tubes V1 & V2. The preamp section seems to benefit from the resonance reducing action of the LPIs. I continue to be amazed at the sound I get from the VAC 160iSE. |
The SE's are very hard to find, as people don't really want to give then up after an upgrade. If it were me, when ready I would just have VAC do the upgrade to your 160i. That way they could also check it out and you could upgrade exactly what you wanted, thereby possibly keeping costs down if you didn't need the full upgrade. I have discovered that it never hurts to have them check out my VAC gear to make sure it is performing as it should. Good luck! |
Dan (Ballhog), were you able to compare them side by side? It doesn't sound like you did. Did you buy the SE new or used? I think I bought your old 160i Dan. I'm considering the SE upgrade later this year, but I haven't decided whether to look for a used SE and sell my 160i, or send my 160i in for the upgrade. |
I recently purchased the VAC Sigma 160i se prior to this I owned the Sigma 160i. What I hear is a much improved mid range, better pace and rhythm and also a much better and tighter bass. The overall sound is probably a good 30% better than the base 160i. In my opinion it was money well spent for the upgrade to the se version this time around. I use nos tubes all the way through also and that makes a pretty significant improvement to an already special amplifier. |
An update on my continued success with resonance control experiments. First, as I mentioned earlier above, I had excellent luck with one Stillpoints LPI which I just happened to have lying around that I placed between V8, V6 and V2. With this knowledge I tried adding a second LPI, this new one now perched on the right edge of the VAC's chassis, just on the right of and slightly above V7 (rightmost driver 12AU7) and below V11 (rightmost KT88). This second LPI also had a very positive effect, moving the sound further along the path that the first LPI took - i.e., more smoothness/sweetness in vocals, elimination of edge, even more coherent and deep soundstage. Second, I switched from the old version of Tubemonger's 9-pin socket savers for all of the 12AU7s and 12AX7s in the 160iSE to his new ones based on the McMurdo sockets. The new ones are much better. These things allow you to swap tubes without wear and tear on the VAC sockets, but importantly they have distinct sonic benefits too. The sound thickens in a good way, filling out with more body and color. Also definitely recommended. And BTW as I mentioned before I also use Herbie's tube dampers on all tubes. I really like the effect of those too. As Mike Oltz remarked to me recently, I have been learning that all sorts of vibrations are the enemy of good sound! |
A- Thank you for your kind words about my system. It has truly been a labor of love. I think you are correct - its probably just a matter of time before there is some trickle-down from the IQ technology. You are also right about Brent and Kevin using the SE - Brent does and I think Kevin did. I think the 160SE is probably the best value, by far, in VAC gear today. |
FPlanner2000, I checked out your very impressive main system at your Audiogon link. We heard much the same IQ setup with Focals in VAC's main room at the Brooklyn show last year and it was just great. I do think the 160iSE probably gets close to the sound of the Statement level gear in terms of refinement, although not power of course. And then your IQ gear is at yet a higher level than that. I do hope that eventually the IQ technology is trickled down to the 160i level too. I believe some version of it can be trickled down to the integrated level, but I could be wrong on this. VAC will probably tell us at some point what is going to be possible in the future. By the way, I understand that Brent uses the 160iSE for his personal use, and Kevin does or has done so at some point too. |
I have heard a friend's 160i prior to upgrade as well as after a full upgrade to the 160SE. What I heard was basically more of everything, with better detail and depth of soundstage. It is a noticeable step up from the 160i, for the better, and worth the money, IMO, especially if you spin vinyl. My friend is quite pleased. At some point down the line I may consider one for my office system. |
Thanks Wig. I got it to work after a quick chat with Brent. Didn't realize the active fuse moved out sideways, that is to say left-right and not up-down. The spare fuse comes out up-down but not the active one. From my crouching position behind the amp I could not see the fuse holder properly otherwise I might have figured this out. But in the end I couldn't tell much difference from switching direction. Perhaps the SR fuses are not directional unlike the AH fuses. Anyway I will try it again after some time as I am still getting used to the change in sound from the latest changes, including the use of the LPI on the VAC chassis which as I said above was quite meaningful. |
By the way, I have to tell you that the Stillpoints LPI is the real deal for taming resonance in the VAC chassis. The place to put it is in the space between V8 (leftmost KT88), V2 (right phono 12ax7) and V6 (leftmost driver 12au7). I think you will be blown away by the difference. Even better than where I had it first which was up front left in front of the two phono 12ax7s. |
I've used as much force as I dare in trying to remove the fuse from its clip. Seems that the silver cap on the lower end of the inside fuse can't make it through the clip - it just jams. I did put it in there originally so you would think it would come out too. Will check with VAC and SR if there is anything I should try. Don't want to break the clip and have to send the amp back to replace it. |
I must admit that I haven't been able to try reversing direction as the fuse is very tightly stuck in its socket. Not the spare outer fuse which comes out fine, but the active fuse which is on the inside and very tight. Do you have to use a fair amount of pressure for that one, more so than the spare, to bring it out? |