Turntables: 2 Tonearms. What do you Have or Know About?

Triangle Art, I presume a 2nd arm pod could be ordered, and set up, perhaps triangular base turned, motor relocated

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649993742-triangleart-maestro-turntable-controller-tri-planar-tonearm-dynavector-xv-1t/

VPI with Tall Dust Cover, Custom I presume, simple rectangle easier.

Anywhere I've lived, when the sunlight is just right, the amount of otherwise unseen dust in the rays of light is overwhelming.

bw, these last few are all from Canada

Another Acoustic Solid

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649815146-acoustic-solid-metal-turntable-and-parts/

Another Lenco (I've never heard one, a friend in VA has one in his 'museum' man cave

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649838156-jean-nantais-classic-lenco-mk-ii-turntable/images/3753680/

Custom, with Lenco allows 3 tonearms

https://reverb.com/item/61980073-lenco-l75-smda-white-turntable?gspk=SGlmaXNoYXJrLVJldmVyYg%3D%3D&utm_campaign=Hifishark-Reverb&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=partnerstack-legacy

IMO, some of these are sweet bargains

Also listed for a long time, or re-listed

Garrard 301 in Custom Ferrari Red, two armboards

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649930575-the-ferrari-gt401-state-of-the-art-garrard-401-turntable-by-rgtt/images/4210194/

This one, you can change the uni-pivot tonearm with a different cartridge on it's base

AND,

it comes with 2 extra arm boards, so you can change tone arm type as well as cartridge.

Of course that is true about ant removable arm board type.

https://www.aussieaudiomart.com/details/649999407-vpi-tnt2-turntable-with-9-vpi-memorial-tonearm/

pindac

your dedication to good, better, best is admirable!

I'm to lazy to go beyond a certain point, happily I get to learn from you and others here, Thanks.

There is not a Link as such, the design is Bespoke Made.

If you do look across the years of SME Designs since their 30xx Models were released.

The insertable removeable Headshells used on the 30xx range, (the design mimicked by many Brands), as a design, are  inserted into an additional connected fastened into the Wand. Once seated the removable part is tightened in place by a Threaded Ferrule. I won't say too much on this as a design for a role where two parts are connected to the end of the Wand, especially where a rigid coupling being in place is the ideal.

This earlier design from SME was not transferred over to the Companies M2 xx Design. This design used for M2 xx, is robust and has a mounting method that has the Wand as the internal, with the Headshell clamping down onto the sleeve that is concealing the Wand and serving as a means to increase the OD over a proportion of the length of the Wand. This still remains a Two Part Connection for the Headshell, but has the design incorporated to enable a rigid clamping of the Headshell to the Sleeve. I am giving the benefit of any doubt to the Sleeve and suggest it is a very tightly coupled part, and an adequately tight clamp fastening will finish the connection nicely.

The later of the SME Removable Headshell Designs was with a increased substance and designed to directly couple onto a Tapered Wand.

I don't see the Headshell Connection used for the SME 309, IV and V having any potential to not be rigidly coupled, as long as the Clamp Fastening is adequately tightened.

For the two later designs of removable Headshell, my gut has always been toward using a Torque Setting at the time of securing the Headshell, as this would give a consistency to the mechanical interface.  

 In relation to my earlier post. I was given demo's from the same TA. Encountering it  evolve from a version of the SME Bayonet Headshell, to a Bespoke Interference Fit Design. I made the impression this made known earlier and it was very impressive.

An additional experience I had at a later date, was when the same TA, was using PC Triple C Wand Wire. This Wire Type is the same Wire used by SAEC in their TORT TA.

I am a advocate of a particular wire type, which is PC Triple C.

It has been experienced in use in my own system and others over time.

I was always looking for a diameter to suit Wand Wire but finding it with a sheath was not easy.

I learnt the PC Triple C Wire is in use in a SAEC TA, and this was very encouraging.

In the end after many investigations a suitable sheathed wire was discovered, with an ideal OD.

I was demo'd this Wire, used on the very familiar to myself TA and System. The experience proved to be something very special. SAEC has got it correct I am sure, and my encouraging a friend to investigate and produce a version was the best call I have been instrumental in encouraging to be realised for a very long time.    

I prefer placing the cover in storage.

lewm

I have read off avoids containing/reflecting microphonics, so I prefer off, and in my setup, up, even though clear acrylic, would block the large window behind. 

All the JVC Large Plinths dust covers are big/thick/heavy, no way to keep up or on anyway.

I put felt buttons on its side I put down on the floor, and felt on the cabinet edge I lean it on, as I said, a nearby out of sight designated place for it while playing is good.

Re a hinged dust cover: they can be “lifted off”, which is the first thing I did with the covers for the TT101 and Denon DP80. The hinges come apart via a spade/slot joint. You can use the cover either way or not at all.

The TT801 has a greater reputation for unreliability than does the TT101, possibly owing to its greater use of ICs which were needed to create internal space for the vacuum plumbing.

pindac

My knowledge stopped at ’the headshell come’s off’. Do you have a link to a preferred removable headshell?

Removable/Fixed Cartridge: I always consider, the SME removable headshell was present all the while they made their superior reputation. Insisting on fixed cartridges (on the arms of so many of todays turntables) seems an un-necessary limitation. Best headshells/fittings provide easy azimuth adjustment, burying shims 6 feet deep.

Same thing with today’s ’missing’ features: balance, tone controls, tape loops, ’loudness’. All the great stuff made their reputations with a LOT of features, I’ve tried the ’simplicity’ ’straight wire with gain’ thing, gimme the features, modern ’defeatable’ a nice feature. Lack of a BALANCE control seems absurd, and remote balance is a wonderful thing I don’t want to live without. Defeatable if desired.

Same thing regarding LEVEL controls on speakers, to adjust output for ’best’ in that space, in that particular location in that space (often less than ideal). What difference if an owner get’s it ’wrong’ with his choice, his settings, in his space/location (or the wifey’s location), it sounds best to him. Perhaps needed adjustments for his individual hearing variations, and diminishing of highs while aging. Controls, simple tripod mics, CD test tones ought to be provided as standard. Consider the sophisticated adjustments provided for video systems.

Without level controls, there is no way my friends would prefer listening here. Without level controls, there is no way my AR-2ax’s would sound soooo good, best than I ever had in my office. I’ve got one wall close left, open space right side, adjustments imperative.

I digress.

Most of the time I forget I can play 2 (or 3) arms at the same time, simply play one, lift it, switch SUT input, lower the other arm/cartridge. Of course, perfection is lost by having different tonearm wires and cables for each arm, two OEM din, main arm my choice of Ortofon, thru VPI junction box I might add. one re-wired using VAS's chosen wire and solder

For more careful comparisons, a volume match is important, I mess about, make a temporary pencil mark at my amp’s volume control, not measured, just sounds about right to the two of us.

@elliottbnewcombjr As for playing 3 x TA's simultaneously and measuring Speed.

That one is new to me💡, even though I do not see myself attempting it during a upcoming 2 x TA Demo.

Using these Super Polished Styli, is one of the more recent advertised methods, I am of the view it is one of the last frontiers with the present technologies available to reduce friction/drag within the groove.

I am an advocate of Good Quality Interference Fit Head Shells, being used in the same material, for carrying out comparisons of Cart's. A lot can be learned using this method, and I am very pleased to have been party to demo's using this very method, when comparing different Cart's.

I am very familiar with a modified SME Bayonet Type Headshell, that is produced to be a Interference Fit. When compared to the Typical Design used on same TA>TT. The outcome for me has been the Typical Design SME Bayonet is very wanting and unattractive in comparison to the Modified Version.          

kennyc

Is this the VPI Avenger model you mentioned?

Found an AMG with 3 arms

https://analog-manufaktur-germany.de/en/

The J Sikora you mentioned, whew!

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/j-sikora-standard-max-turntable/

I found Halcro's TT101 Discussion, 1,793 responses, beware!

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vintage-dd-turntables-are-we-living-dangerously

My guess is Halcro and Thuchan spent so much money on these that they had to sell their computers, that's why they are no longer active here. Bad joke.

It seems they made a special base for three tonearms that fit some of those JVC spinners

https://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=s501384251

https://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=s501798964

lewm

thanks for the clarifications, yeah, JP Jones, in that very long discussion I think he had several cracks at some people's TT101's before they got 'right'. 

I'm glad yours is doing great. My TT81 also. Sometimes I think, if I had JP Jones check mine out, some things might not be 'right' within, yet it starts like a dual motor Tesla, keeps perfect speed, stops on a dime. Dead quiet operation.

I still get tempted to buy a spare TT71 or TT81 when they come up separately at a good price. If my TT81 died, like my mx110z tube tuner/preamp, I wouldn't waste any time considering options, just get another asap!

Same thing with the xa5400 SACD player people here advised me to buy, fix or replace.

IOW, I'm soooo happy with the changes I made since joining Audiogon, I dare say, 'I'm DONE'. Hah.

The 801 with vacuum pump. I notice it had a hinged dust cover, I prefer lift-off.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-TT-801.html

https://audio-database.com/VICTOR/etc/tt-801.html

Elliot, You're skating on thin ice.  The TT101 is a fine turntable.  I have been using mine for several years since JP Jones repaired its problem, with no issues whatsoever.  The difference between a TT101 and a TT81 is nowhere near like the difference between a 6-cylinder Jag E type and a 12-cylinder version.  I've driven both; you are correct in saying the 12-cylinder is a dog, front heavy and sluggish. Funnily, they are very collectible nevertheless.  I am not going to say the TT101 is superior to the TT81, because I have never heard a TT81, but the former was JVC's top of the line for a reason, notwithstanding the very limited production TT801, which is the model you're thinking of that had vacuum hold down.  TT101 does not have vacuum.  Halcro and Thuchan, two well heeled, "retired" contributors to this forum, both also own TT101s, or at least they did when last they posted here.

I have the VPI Avenger rim drive. Arms are the Schroeder CB12 for my VDH GC, Schick for SPUs, and Kuzma 4point.

The AMG Viella allows for a second arm and competes with more expensive turntables.

J Sikura Standard MAX allows 2 tonearms and may be my end game target.

pindac

Here’s my JVC spinner ’type’ with custom black marble base and pods. I’d hate to pay for it. No dust cover? All that precision, open to dust mites? Or my forced air system, nooooo.

Mine is a TT81, the last ’sensible’ one. That is Halcro’s (Henry) TT101. I read all about it, a VERY LONG thread here, the nightmare he went thru getting it properly overhauled. TT101 is vacuum hold down type. Pretty sure Lewm had/has a TT101.

Here’s Halcro’s Video proving all 3 arms could play without effecting the speed one bit. Happily I have more room to operate my rear arm, as easy as the right side. Left arm backwards, is a mind twist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfVk430hwU4

My friends compare cartridges, theirs, mine, stereo/mono: changing the rear arm’s headshell, playing 2 or 3 arms simultaneously, simply select which arm on my 3 arm SUT. Easy to demonstrate the benefit of playing a Mono LP with a true Mono Cartridge vs a Stereo Cartridge via preamp’s mono ’mode’.

Punishment: I compare TT101 to anyone who buys a Jag XJS with a V12 jammed under the hood, instead of a superb Straight Slant 6. btw, the 6 beats the 12 off the line, V12 only wins at top speed.

............................................................

I admire other people’s ’arms on pods’ arrangements. A lot of wonderful designs simply ignore dust covers. You need to have a designated place for the dust cover to go while listening, some custom ones are giants.

I prefer the arm mounts factory made and attached to the TT itself, essentially easy to buy, setup, mount most arms ’normally’. I prefer DD, AND a removable factory dust cover.

From your Links:

Micro-Seiki RX 1500, 3 arms

here’s a

......................................

2 arm version

................................................

Wave Kinetics Direct Drive, 2 12" arms

...............................................................

Bergman, allows 4 arms? Post said:

"This is the new model from Bergmann Turntables till 4 arms air bearing and vacuum pump."

audiomark1234

That's gotta be a nice combo. I had and loved an SME 3009II, got repair parts from SME in 1973. I wrote them with parts needed. I expected a letter saying 'send $_____. They sent me the parts with a typed invoice, trusted me to pay, class act. Different world then. Steve at VAS made me sell it to him.

My friend just bought a used 9" Moerch. He's the one who bought the JVC 3 arm plinth with the Denon Nameplate. He's going to select and add a new veneer, so it will be a while until I help him install it, and hear it.

Sorry for the "off topic" but, how do you keep all those little corners clean? With a small brush? a small vacuum cleaner?
🤔

Yes Elliot, that is what mine looks like. I have a SME3010R in the back spot and a Moerch DP6 12" on the side.

@elliottbnewcombjr  You're too kind. 😉

That's a heck of a turntable.
I just looked at your amazing system

Why not share the subject as an across forum venture.

The 3 x Standalone Pods do seemingly offer the concept that anybody can experience Multi-Arms in use without having to spend too much on the additional Arm Support Method.

The TT owner with a leaning toward multi-TA's put into service as a method to extend on experiences, need not be too concerned for their TT's Plinth being able to receive additional arms, if the Standalone Pod is a mounting method put to use, or investigated to be tried out. 

Some might suggest concerns are required for convection and the TT arm Pod colliding 😂, not in a TT users lifetime will that hilarious hypothesis occur. 

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/analog-playback/tonearms/112602-multiple-tonearms-setup-on-single-turntable-and-ease-of-use

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/tts-with-multiple-tonearms.19794/

The question arose whether JVC and Denon plinths are cross-compatible. No, they are not. But might be made to work with some modifications to the plinth.

VPI Avenger Plus

Not the two arm model I had seen, but it popped up

https://gridhifi.com/shop/turntables/vpi-avenger-plus/?variant=1024069&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&srsltid=ASuE1wRDOul5CGBHZi_MRQfhThavE6n9tZ276QXJtYO95xthneiZexVd-1s

Another SAM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275888546292?hash=item403c3d21f4:g:z-YAAOSwwQdkYk42&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0PSj3jMDnm73%2FVmSmLHQLO18sSX38AGciPpjNiGdS0JI7lPTDVV%2BhpxRIjHRlaL30fJE%2Becb1fWP%2BHIz3KKdDCj8U0xRVgnQ5AcLUpW497TkuVNMZzOsi6Xw4sqmQpVtNVPXZA92lutyhVS2Oj53Ijh6TITfiNUiFFScneZ7QMAwThGS8RS8isoWMYtt1%2BBYVO%2FFhvfXo5wAtHi7SRs6f1S8cKuCPj2jO63CaC15d5ga2XY9q4%2BEf1bO%2F3y8Zt0PwPb1pk5whteDvg%2BUnEmRgVE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6bc4dqkYg

SAM website

https://sam-audio.eu/

Another SAM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275868619616?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=275868619616&targetid=1528987490856&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9003512&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009174&rlsatarget=pla-1528987490856&abcId=9307249&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAjwqZSlBhBwEiwAfoZUIMAE_rToAcI7KTKaZRd-MmVSFUOZr25Ib88Et55gt121sUxjHBEEKhoCCJYQAvD_BwE

This Custom Job popped up this am

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334863214783?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=334863214783&targetid=1528987488376&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9003512&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009014&rlsatarget=pla-1528987488376&abcId=9307249&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAjwqZSlBhBwEiwAfoZUIPojRO8YDY-ZG_QzLbpmFK2wAP4QWbcufD6OBPjAjttRDXa_benIJxoCKqkQAvD_BwE

audiomark1234

looks like this, correct? what arms did you put on it?

The 70mm thick layered plinth is so similar to the 70mm JVC Plinths. Seems like Denon used more layers than JVC.

Original Denon specs say it came with 4 tonearm boards

https://audio-database.com/DENON-COLUMBIA/etc/dk-2300.html

Not sure but the Denon armboard (30mm) may be a bit thicker than JVC’s

...........................................................

Interestingly, the JVC CL-P3 3 arm Plinth my friend bought is the JVC Base, however someone put the DENON nameplate (identical to yours) in the center of the front. We think someone put a Denon Spinner in a JVC Base, just a suposition, he only bought the base. I gotta wonder if the cutout fits either brand’s spinners.

Underside of the Denon. It has a recessed skirt concealing part of the legs, less view of wires/light below

Here’s the underside of JVC’s 7 layer plinth (4 some kind of composite like Denon, 3 thin layers of special compound between those thicker layers). Flat bottom, no skirt.

noromance

That's a heck of a turntable.

I just looked at your amazing system

https://www.audiogon.com/systems/1593

Where do you live? I think I should take a vacation near you and listen!!!

VPI's Unipivot Arms simply lift off.

Connection: the arm's mini DIN connector fits VPI's junction box

The arms come with a case

Visit Steve at VAS, he's got his collection of arms adjacent to his beloved VPI TT. I'll have to take a photo next time I go there. You might run out of pixels taking photos of all his toys.

VPI is in the same building complex as VAS. Steve used to do some work for them, 

I have a Denon DK2300 plinth with a 10"& 12" arm.

Refurbished Audio Grail Sable early Twin-spark 401 in 22"x17"x2" Jim Campbell Pennsylvania slate plinth. Precision Audio Components oversize aluminum platter, Artisan Fidelity stainless steel idler, SPH Aluminum/POM grease bearing. Feet are 3 x Nobsound springs on slate pods.

Jelco TK-850L 12" tonearm with Ammonite collar and Decca London Super Gold with Paratrace and Decapod. Rebuilt twice by John Wright. Added Decapod in 2019

Jelco TK-850S 9" tonearm with Decca London Gold (Garrott Brothers "Microscanner") with Decapod. Refurbished by John Wright with line contact stylus.

@elliottbnewcombjr 

Your system looks great!

I found this Dr. Feikert 

https://upscaleaudio.com/products/dr-feickert-analogue-blackbird-turntable-with-deluxe-12-package

Dynavector XV/Triplanar + Ikeda Kai/Ikeda on Dr. Feikert TT. The low compliance arm/cartridge are preferred for musical jazz; medium compliance for audiophile vocal (e.g., Harry Bellafonte). My gold standard for comparisons of sound stage, dynamics, and detail is a Revox open RTR. 

You can insert photos from your own Virtual System in posts

COST: That Simon Yorke looks expensive.

I suppose knowing the cost is interesting, but just seeing the design/solutions/options/engineering is fun for me.

My entire 3 arm setup, including 3 arm SUT was only $5,500.

Risked Vintage parts, got lucky. Only new part was the 12.5" long Blackbird arm from Russia (only $1,000, and a new Ortofon Cable for it).

http://newartvinyl.ru/board/detali_proigryvatelja/tonarm_black_bird12_5_5pin/7-1-0-53

Luckily I bought a $150. 3 yr square trade warranty, I had to have the fabric covered litz tonearm wire replaced by VAS. (early design wore the fabric insulation off when pivoting, design fixed now) Full reimbursement from Square Trade.

The Simon Yorke Arm clearthinker mentioned

https://www.recordplayer.com/webant/en/turntable/aeroarm/specifications.html

.......................................................................

That would be a very tall custom dust cover

clearthinker,

glad you added that category of ’two arm wands’ (or more)

everyone

How many of you have or know of tonearms with interchangeable arms?

I installed the wonderful Technics B500 Tonearm Base on my friends Technics SP-15.

Simply loosen the ’lock’ wheel, (silver at top)

arm with counter weights simply slides sideways, out. Signal contacts are on the bottom edge of the arm making contact automatically as it slides in.

Here’s a straight arm wand in it’s package

My friend has the S arm wand with removable headshell,

here’s

the straight arm wand installed

Once changed, tracking force, anti-skate and VTA need to be confirmed. All easy with this superbly engineered system.

The VTA adjustment on this B500 Base is wonderful. Simply loosen the lock wheel (lower black one). Turn the outer ring, like a camera’s manual zoom lens: up or down, lock.

It may look complicated but it is easy!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255876047085?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D251361%26meid%3Dfb0cdf59f1c64791bb9c1e57135d8a78%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D285360355496%26itm%3D255876047085%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecall%26brand%3DTechnics&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A255876047085fb0cdf59f1c64791bb9c1e57135d8a78%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABQNaJCFP3eaFlNU%252FMPxRY0TCMczVKEUB5MsBytoCwPnd71M08lfrVO4PuTCchnU42KC4W4fZqxBROE%252BM7tSL%252BgZgL1kWiIUBRsEpydVTA61DhOJDUizwNgM7HKYQEqSaBlONLJ%252BPi0iaCS35vOHK3oXKsYdkGzS%252Bbf7M7EcaQe213tqEO2kfPBNyBSM0wn6bUEPbvSc2RAb2SxC2gqcNrg74PE44LSYl1wL0H8czC7FNHSTQ5ZDxHri9dEKuRdfKrRUF4vRty%252BvTZx38v0uHqTBfpSNLWDQhicoSKYsqfU4N%252BKjPlq6ZybHxjrsPnEw5PN16km6D6A6jUDULJZelJr5dzj3B1b5hu9m5%252BV4DK7jznXNrRbx8%252BxoGprOHds1WnygAVDlrx26jCixILW6veTaB326d4UXZXuthmdtvDCpQc%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675

Complete SP-15 with B500 Base

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649989806-technics-sp-15-professional-broadcast-turntable/

If you have a Simon Yorke Aeroarm you can swap out carriages with ready set-up carts in about a minute.  Spare carriages are much cheaper than additional arms.

SAM (Small Audio Manufacture) Listed Here, 2 arms

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisajdgb-sam-small-audio-manufacture-sinner-turntable-with-sam-tonearm-turntables?refsource=hifishark#&gid=1&pid=2

Garrard 301 in Custom Plinth for 2 arms

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185835517226?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=846d7406-1a0c-11ee-90d4-346266323162

Plinth for 301 allows 1,2,3 arms

https://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng/used_product_details.jsp?gid=8199

Another 301 2 arm plinth

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185962915832?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=e243588e-1a0c-11ee-aecd-346266323162

Seems like 301 owners like the 2 arm setup

Clearwater Master can have 3 Tonearms

https://clearaudio.de/en/products/turntables-innovation_master.php

Another Triangle Art takes two arms

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194269854191?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=da61ca28-1a08-11ee-9b5a-343264643131

Scheu, 2nd arm board included

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649960054-scheu-analog-das-laufwerk-no-2-slate-turntable-w-morch-dp6-tonearm/images/4356156/

This appears to take 2 tonearms

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/classifieds/wave-kinetics-nvs-reference-turntable.719/