Tube phono stage, or solid state,pre amp

Thanks Friend'sI think I might, had confused peoplejust a quick recapI have a PS Audio GHPH S/S, phono stage, and a PS Audio Pre AmpI love the deep bass I get, and slam, but at the same time, it gives me a harshness, on most recordings, some one told me I should insert a tube, Pre/ or tube phono stage, I'm led to believe, that the S/S phono stage, will still give me "balls", and slam, and replacing my Pre-Amp, with tubes, will give me the balance, I'm after, to smooth thing's??, with out removing cymballs, etc, but get rid of some male vocals,with nasal harshness, and screeching, guitar work from some great guitarist, I'm sure the sound tecks have done this on purist, to highlight there ability??, I maybe wrong, but I really want feedback, with a few suggestions??Many ThanksDavid SpryAust

Thanks AllSorry to sound, bad, but we have missed the point??I have a PS GPH, I wish the cartridge loading would be better, the cartridge loading is 300 ohms, but the loading is 500 ohms, the bass is great, but the high octaves, on some recordings, while the bass is still great!!, still bleeds, on the high notes!!!It goes back to my problem, I want to keep bass and attack, but smooth the end, my pre amp is the PS Pre/DacWhat shall, I do, is the PS GPH giving me the bass, and the PS Pre, giving me the harsh nest, I read some where, that you should have a tube amp,in the middle of a SS phono stage, and a ss preamp, to calm things down, as I like bass and slam, should be the preamp??that needs replaced??
Your thoughtsRegardsDavid

2. PS Audio GHPG phono stage, loading jumps from 100- to 400 ohms, and the Zu likes around 300ohms??, Ive tried 100ohms, but seem's a bit muted and boring, when I go to 400ohms, the bass comes alive, but with harshness,!!

The loading is there for the preamp, not the cartridge.
This is how it works: The cartridge is an inductance (the 'coil' part of 'moving coil'). The tone arm cable is a capacitance.
Together they form a resonant circuit. Quite often the resonance is several MHz, but it could be in the high 100KHz range too, depending on the coil inductance and the cable capacitance.
Usually loading is thought to reduce ringing in the inductor, but with LOMC cartridge, this does not happen until well outside the audio band. The reason that an unloaded cartridge can sound aggressive on some preamps is that the resonant peak is injecting RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) into the preamp. If the preamp isn't happy with that, it can sound quite aggressive! The loading resistor detunes the resonant peak, thus getting rid of the brightness by removing the RFI.
The problem is, now you are forcing the cartridge to do more work because the loading resistor is a much lower resistance. This can cause the cantilever to get stiffer, much like how shorting a loudspeaker can stiffen its cone.
Now if the preamp is designed such that it does not care about the RFI, then no loading is needed. A side benefit of this is that quite often there are less ticks and pops in the playback as well. We can discuss why later.
So the loading is there for the preamp, not the cartridge.

My previous post was deleted for some reason- it put all this in a nutshell. I've not been able to sort out why it was deleted.

BTW there is a great thread on the What's Best Forum regarding this topic. I don't recall the thread title, but it was about cartridge loading. Jonathan Carr of Lyra fame participated and essentially stated what I've stated above. Additionally, take a look a Jim Hagerman's site: http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html
In this site you can see that the peak I mentioned is a good 30db higher than that of the cartridge. This is a significant amount of RFI and can play havoc with sensitive phono input circuitry unless the issue is anticipated by the designer! In far too many cases, it is not.
BTW, it is far easier to design a tube phono section that is RFI resistant, due to the fact that semiconductors have diodes integral to their operation. This diode can rectify (convert from RF to audio) the RFI, so more precautions have to be taken by the solid state designer to get around this problem. IOW, a good phono circuit is not just enough gain and proper equalization, it must also have good overload margin (to deal with that 30 db peak) and RFI resistance.

Thanks AllTube, phono stage, or tube preampI still want my kick ass bass, but a little smooth, at the high references??Tube Phono Stage, or Tube, pre amp ??Please help!!

What about the room. Are you getting too many early reflections ? Do you listen with your listening chair against a wall ? What about the wall between the speakers. I would do treatments of some kind to the room before making any changes. Just my opinion, if it matters. Enjoy ! MrD.

Thanks FriendsI;m very happy with my set up, I love the deep bass, but at the same time, the upper sounds harsh, I know I will have to get a tube unit, in to tame, the highs, but at the same time, I don't want to lose the great bass!!!My phono stage, is:PS Audio GPH, The pre amp is:PS Audio DAC/Pre AmpTo still have the balls, would I replace the pre amp with valves, or replace the phono unit to Valves??I know this is all confusion??My System is as bellow:1 "once analog" TT, with Zu cartridge
2. PS Audio GHPG phono stage, loading jumps from 100- to 400 ohms, and the Zu likes around 300ohms??, Ive tried 100ohms, but seem's a bit muted and boring, when I go to 400ohms, the bass comes alive, but with harshness,!!
3. PS Audio DAC/Pre amp4. Pair of Audio Labs mono blocks5. Pair of Zu Audio Souls MK2, something is not right??, some albums sound great, then some sound a bit on the harsh side!!Hello friends where do I go from here??Tube Phono stage??or Tube Preamp??any suggestions, as to both of the above, can you swing a few brands, of both??
Many ThanksDavid

Thanks All!!Just a update, I have a PS Audio, SS phono stage, should I keep it??and then replace the the SS preamp, with a tube, pre amp,with balanced, cables, that will feed my SS mono blocks??Your Thought'sMany ThanksDavid

I have a PS phono stage , bought a tube Pro-Ject  DS2 tube ($700) which
is FAR better . The fact I put 2 of the best  12ax7's ever made into it is a factor .

Thanks all!!I still need more info!!Shall I leave the PS Audio phono stage, alone??, I wish it came with more cartridge, loadings, Although I feel, but am not sure??, is the PS Audio Pre/Dac, the weak link??, the only reason, I have a Pre amp is because I have a CD player, That I never use??Some one recommends, running my SS mono blocks, with a Tube pre amp, with a inbult  phono stage. this sounds good, but will it give me drive in the bass, balls with, with nice highs, cymbals good, with out been harsh
Regards

If you can afford it go for a combination of both with a Luxman EQ-500 :)

Your speakers are very high efficiency 99db and a very easy load and you're driving them with a fairly powerful SS amp. Perhaps try a tube amp or even low powered SS before messing with your phono setup.

Tube pre with SS amps all the way.

@yogiboy , +1

A bright high end is typical of solid state. This is due to distortion, not frequency response, despite the fact that the distortion present is very slight (the problem is that the ears are very keen to this type of distortion, as it is higher ordered harmonics which the ear uses to sense sound pressure). If I were you I would consider an all-tube preamp with the phono section built-in. Less boxes, and less likely to be bright as you get rid of two brightness-due-to-distortion sources.

See JA's test report on the Zu's in Stereophile. They were on the cover a few years back.

Zu's have a tipped-up treble so they will always sound bright.

I prefer a tube phono stage!