I ordered five of Herbies tube dampeners yesterday for the five 6h30's in my pre-amp (ARC REF-3) They should be here this coming Thursday. Stay tuned.
Tube dampeners on ARC gear ... FREE TWEAK
Here's a cheap (free) tweak for owners of ARC gear using the black tube dampeners. If you move both dampeners as far up toward the top of the tube as possible without having the top one fall off, taking care that both dampeners are solidly touching each other, you will get better dynamics, bass, mids, highs and a lower noise floor. Try it ... you'll like it.
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To all of you who recommended the Herbie's tube dampeners ... THANK YOU! I had five rx-9's delivered today to damp the five 6H30's in my preamp. All I can say is WOW! An immediate lowering of the noise floor, letting a lot more of the music flow through the speakers. Nothing is subtracted except the distortion caused by the vibrating tubes. Everything from top to bottom is improved. Most impressive is the improvement in the lower mid-range right where cellos shine. Lovely indeed. Vocals are much more tactile than before too. Again, its like a new record collection. So, five of the tube dampeners cost a total of $140.00. Not bad considering that it is like an upgrade to a better pre-amp ... and that would cost thousands. Now, over time, I will change out all of the ARC tube rings for the Herbie's dampeners. Amp and phono stage next. I'm totally impressed. OP |
Allan ... While I was listening last night it occurred to me that the improvement was a lot like changing out the fuses. With every fuse change there was less and less grain in the system. The tube dampeners are a lot like that. Its as if someone cleaned off a window allowing a clearer vision to the outside. The "outside" in this case of course is the view of the performers. Images are much more solid and the 3-D presentation is improved. Bass, while I don't know if it goes any deeper, is more present. Acoustic stand-up bass is right there in the room. The clarity of the highs are improved as well. I was listening to some orchestral music last night. One of my favorite pieces of music for relaxation is Bach's "Air On a G String." This particular CD is a wonderful performance of the work on the EMI Classic label with Leopold Stokowski conducting and recorded in 1957. The massed strings just reach out and waft over the listening room. Very romantic music with superior sound. Here's a link to the Japanese import: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stokowski-Leopold-Stokowski-SO-Bach-Stokowski-HQCD-Japan-Import-/26245752393... One of my "test" records is Dave Brubeck's "Jazz Impressions of The USA. Its a mono recording ... but the kind of mono that has you asking: "Who needs stereo?" I've played this record at least a thousand times over the 50+ years that its been in my collection. With every improvement in the system, this record reflects that improvement. After installing Herbie's dampeners last night, Paul Desmond's alto sax had presence like never before. I could easily follow the direction of Joe Morello's brushes on the snare drum. The rim shots were more distinct too. When I think back on how this album sounded years ago, and how it sounds today, I have to laugh. Its come a long way, baby. Who knew what was hiding in those grooves? http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=dave+brubeck&_osacat=176985&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045... Since I've been using Audio Technica cartridges, both the OC9-III, and now the ART-9, mono records have taken on a new life. These cartridges, even though configured for stereo, seem to get deeper into those mono grooves than any cartridge I've had before. The AT's just seem to extract more information. For a collector like me who has been collecting records for so long, there's a ton of mono records in the collection ... especially jazz. Herbie's tube dampeners have brought even more life to the mono records. Every time I make an improvement like this, I wonder how much more distortion is in the system ... and how do I get rid of it? The SR Black fuses brought things a long way in this regard. In fact, I made the comment in the fuse thread that I had thought the ARC REF-75se, with the KT-150 tubes was a grain-less amp. Ha! A simple change of a fuse changed that thinking real fast. Over the years, I've made a concerted effort to reduce micro vibrations anywhere I could. Prior to discovering the SR Black fuses I thought I had it covered. The fuses taught me differently. And now Herbie's tube dampeners have done the same thing. What's it going to be like when a full complement of the tube dampeners are in the system? And where do I go from there?? The next order of Herbie's tube dampeners are going into the amp and the phono stage. Should be nice. Thanks again, guys ... I'm stoked. :-) |
^^^ *lol* ... I don't want to kill you Allan. Its just that I've been in this hobby for so many years ... since the early 70's in fact. That's how long I've been in the audio hobby chasing better sound, but I've been collecting music since the middle 50's. When I find a tweak that really works, like the SR Black fuses, or the SR "High Frequency Transducers" (HFT's), and now Herbie's tube dampeners, my cup runs over with enthusiasm. Its fun to share the information with like minded individuals. Another tweak I want to try is Herbie's "Black Hole" CD mat. I'll have to call them to find out if its compatible with the top loading ARC CD7-SErst. |
Allan ... How much better? As I convert over to the Herbie's dampeners, I would be more than happy to send you the ARC dampening rings for free. *lol* And by the way, I'm converting over with one component at a time just as I did with the SR Black fuses. Maybe one per month. Its like spreading out the "fixes" over time. Gotta say, I was listening again this morning, this time to a Harmonia Mundi compilation of various cuts from a variety of their albums. This is another CD that I've heard a hundred times at least. Its one of my reference recordings that I go to each time I make an improvement to the system. This morning, it was like starting anew, like I've never heard it before. The musicians on the Harmonia Mundi recordings use a lot of ancient original instruments, playing music from the 1500's and 1600's. A lot of what they do is recorded in old stone churches in Europe. Man 'O Man ... its really something when you can sense the stone and the age of the venue. And those instruments take on a whole different meaning as well. With the tweaks I've introduced to the system over the past year, you can really catch the differences between ancient instruments and modern ones. The Herbie tube dampeners has brought that out even more. Totally enjoyable. Frank |
Oh man Frank, Harmonia Mundi is SUCH a great label! Repertoire right up my alley, performed so well and in those ancient rooms, and in great recorded sound. You’re right, you can really hear the room the recording was made in, something I absolutely love. To hear those "period" instruments (both antiques and modern reproductions) in those rooms, the type the music was written to be heard in, performed in period "correct" style (without the Romantic era vibrato that was not employed in the Baroque era), really adds to the full appreciation of the music and it’s performance. What more could one ask for! In the 90’s the U.S. headquarters of HM in Westwood/West L.A. had parking lot sales every few months, offering discontinued LP’s and CD’s for $5 apiece. I was there every time. The cream of my music library! |
^^^ bdb24 ... My friend Warren and I took advantage of those Harmonia Mundi parking lot sales many times. Their location was about 45 minutes from my place going south down the coast highway. If I remember correctly, they sold the LP's for five buck apiece. No CD's of course because they didn't exist at that time. As a result, I have a lot of HM Vinyl. Then, years later, I happened to stop by a record store in Burbank just on a whim. Someone had traded in a ton of HM CD's a couple of days before I got there. They were asking $2.99 each. I was pretty flush at the time, so I bought almost all of them. There were a few dogs in the bunch, so I traded them in and kept the rest. I still have them in the collection. I actually had a Harmonia Mundi listening session last night. It was all CD's as I didn't feel like changing records. The debate wore me out. *lol*. The new Herbie's tube dampeners are so effective that every HM CD I played took on a new lease on life. Quite amazing actually considering that I only changed out the dampeners on the five tubes in the preamp. I'm getting so much more inner detail and textural overtones from instruments now ... and that's without subtracting anything except distortion. The improved detail isn't etched or bright in any way, just more musical and closer to real. When I get around to replacing the dampeners in the CD player, that's six more. What's that going to do? Zowie! Prior to getting into the SR Black fuses, the SR HFT's, and now the Herbie's tube dampeners over the past year, I only listened to CD's as a convenience. With these tweaks in place, I've found that I'm listening to CD's probably 80% of the time now. So many of the red-book CD's have magic in those bits. Its a lot like going from an entry level cartridge, say like a $49 dollar Grado, to one of the better Audio Technica cartridges and then discovering how much information is hidden deep inside those grooves on Mono records. A revelation, really Frank |
bdb24 ... Before I went to bed last night, I scored this on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/262358885962 I figured for $3.10 and free shipping how could I go wrong. Yep, like I need another recording. :-) Frank |
Just wanted to add a wholehearted endorsement of the Herbie's tube dampers. I've now installed these on all tubes (signal and power supply) on my ARC Ref40 and Phono 2SE -- all I can say is wow! Compared with the original rubber rings the difference is night and day, a whole layer of distortion disappears. Vocal tracks that I had written off as etched or edgy are now totally clear and a wealth of high end detail comes through that had been masked before. This is particularly apparent on leading edges of percussion making it much easier to distinguish between different types of cymbals At first blush it may seem as if some of the "impact" is diminished but I put this down to removal of a sort of echo around major dynamic edges Anyway wholeheartedly recommended and thanks for the tip oregonpapa -- now to get more for my power amps |
^^^ Folkfreak ... I'm not the person to thank for the Herbie's recommendation, that's for sure. I do have a question for you though: Did you try the dampeners just on the signal tubes before adding them to the power supply tubes? Reason I ask is, I was wondering how effective the Herbie's dampeners were on the power tubes in addition to the signal tubes. By the way, I'm having fun with my friend Robert in that I haven't told him about the Herbie's dampeners in the preamp. He's been bringing over some of his "special stash" of outstanding sounding LP's and he just keeps saying that he knew they were good, just not THAT good. Hee, hee ... I love a mystery. I'll spring it on him when the system is completed with the Herbie dampeners. One of the records Robert brought over the other night included a bongo player in the right/rear of the sound stage. I've got to say, those bongos were right there in the room in all of their natural sounding glory. It was so real, we just about fell off of our chairs. An incredible recording indeed ... but who knew? OP |
Oregonpapa -- yes I did start with them just on the signal tubes then ordered more for the power supply -- while having them on the signal tubes is good having them on the power supply as well is more than twice as good -- now note that my PS is not as well isolated as my control box (the ARC Ref40 is a two box set up) -- the latter sits on Marigo footers on a custom shelf while the PSU is just on the stock footers isolated by some constrained layer damping pads. Nevertheless I wholeheartedly recommend getting the dampers for the power supply tubes as well |
^^^ folkfreak ... Thanks for the quick response. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I suspected that the power tubes would be a significant improvement ... but twice as good? ... Great, I'll save them for last. I suppose the increased glass/size of the power tubes is what makes the difference over the signal tubes. Just changing the dampeners on the signal tubes in my REF-3 has made a world of difference. I can only imagine what your REF-40 and your Phono 2SE sounds like. It has to be wonderful. I just love my ARC gear. I have an ARC Classic 60 that is used as a spare. It used to be my main amp. It doesn't have a removable power cord, no mods at all even. I had it completely gone through by the local tech this year. I used it when I was between the REF-75 and the REF-75se. Gotta say ... its warmer sounding and not as accurate as the latest REF gear, but man 'o man ... it just melts your heart. Looking forward to more of your reports on the tube dampeners. Take care ... OP |
lostbears ... I have the CD7-se. How was the improvement with the Herbie's dampeners? Also, have you considered using Herbie's "Black Hole" CD mat? It has rave reviews. I contacted Herbie via Email and he says it works well with our top loading players. Its on my bucket list ... to do after all tubes in the system has been outfitted with the Herbie dampeners. OP |
I just got the 8 Herbie's tube dampers the other day. I put 4 on the signal tubes in my CD7 and 4 on the signal tubes in my Ref 5se. I put them all on at he same time. So far I do hear a difference between the Herbie's and the ARC ones. The soundstage seems a bit bigger and more well defined, a bit more detailed. The bass also seems crisper. But I just got them the other day. So I have not had a chance to spend a lot of time listening with them in the system yet. CD mats definitely work without a problem in the CD7. I have not tried the Herbie's mat. I have an old Marigo Labs Signature mat that I have had for a number of years. The Herbie's mat is cheap enough, I may order one when I order more tube dampers. The biggest improvement I have made in my system. Audio Research Ref 5se, Ref CD7 and Ref 110. Was replacing my Furman power conditioner with a Shunyata Triton and Alpha HC power cable I bought here on Audiogon. It was like someone took a blanket off the speakers. The sound did not change, but it was richer, more focused. The Triton seems to emphasize all the best attributes of the Ref 5se. It was just amazing. Every time I make a change I don't see how my system could get any better. To be honest it is getting hard to compare anything anymore. I end up just getting lost in the music, |
If you are checking out CD mats I can strongly recommend the Marigo Audio Clear Transformation Mat -- I use it all the time in my DCS stack and can clearly hear the difference in terms of unifying the recording into a coherent whole, even the orientation of the mat is readily audible, and it is very slim so works with drawer type loaders -- costs a bit more than Herbie's but has a $ back guarantee I believe I've ordered a full set of Herbie's HAL-O III dampers for my power amps (went with the heavier duty ones given the het in the amps, plus rumor is they sound better 😀 than the UltraSonic Rx) -- will report back in due course |
folkfreak ... It looks like Marigo has improved upon the Clear Transformatin Mat. http://marigoaudio.com/ultima-signature-mat/ Interesting stuff. |
The Furman Elite 15 PFI. The difference is huge. But then it should be. The Furman Elite 15 PFI retails for around $700. The Shunyata Triton retailed for $5000. I will also say that the Shunyata Triton has much better isolation and noise reduction. I have had problems with compact fluorescent bulbs in another room causing hum in my preamp. The Furman did nothing to help the situation and I think may have been the cause. I had a cheap Adcom ace for a while which did not do this and the Shunyata Triton does not have this problem. As a matter of fact it never happened before I got the Furman. |
These threads have been so informative and helpful, my system just continues to improve. Not long ago I tried the black fuse in my power amp, then the pre/pro and phono stage. I was surprised that a simple fuse could make such a difference. Recently I decided to buy a Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlet and installed it in the outlet that my pre/pro and phono stage are plugged into, all I can say is WOW what a difference! Since it replaced a Gaofei Red Copper Rhodium plated outlet I wasn't expecting much, boy was I wrong. Moved the Gaofei Rhodium to the dedicated circuit/outlet for my power amp, just last night (late last night) and another big change. Now to the main reason for this post, Herbie's tube dampers. I have a Fosgate Signature Phono stage that I have spent years trying to get "right" now I realize that is a subjective statement but I know what I like and the Fosgate has always been to dark for my taste. Tubes, Power cords, Black fuse, and the Furutech outlet have all combined for huge gains in my analog enjoyment....BUT just yesterday I installed six Herbie's UltraSonic SS dampers on the six gain tubes, then one UltraSonic RX on the rectifier tube. Wow to say I am impressed is an understatement, I finally fell that my Fosgate is sounding like it should. Now I know that more time listening is required and also not saying this is all I will do, but for possibly the first time ever I turned off my system after listening to several albums feeling that my analog sounded about the way it should. Thanks for the Herbie tip, I had been contemplating trying tube dampers but didn't know what to try. Anyone thinking about trying these, stop thinking and just do it. I can't imagine you wouldn't find them an improvement, besides your money back if your not satisfied! Regards, Gary |
Hi, Gary ... Such a nice report. :-) Its really something when you consider just how much smear is produced by those micro vibrations and lack of solid connections in our systems. Something not realized until the offending situations are removed from the system. There are tons of these tweaks available that really make a difference. You might want to try the SR HFT's. I can vouch for their effectiveness. Way beyond what you'd expect: http://highend-electronics.com/products/sr-hft-high-frequency-transformer After I complete my system with the Herbie's tube dampeners, I'm going to try the SR PHT's on my cartridge. I've read some fantastic reviews on them too: http://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-pht-phono-transducer OP |
Allan ... I don't have a clue. Honest. However, I am getting such a natural musical presentation from the Herbie's tube dampeners by themselves, that I have no compulsion to try the ARC rings in combination with the Herbie dampeners. My audiophile friends are super critical and they are blown away by the system now, as am I. I have 12 used ARC rings that I can send you for free if you want to try it for yourself. :-) Frank |
Allan ... Naw ... It'll be the REF-6 if I do anything. I have to have that additional 15%. Its a curse, I know. Just a minute ago I as listening to the Dave Brubeck Quartet playing a live concert in Mexico City. It was like being there. I keep wondering how much more information can be gleaned from those record grooves and digital bits. More Herbie's tube dampeners will tell the story .,.. for awhile. |
By the way, Allan ... this is the Brubeck CD I referred to in the above post: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buried-Treasures-Recorded-Live-in-Mexico-City-Paul-Desmond-Dave-Brubeck-Quar... If you like Brubeck, Desmond and Morello ... buy this one. Frank |
Nope, never tried that. I see you like the modern female jazz singers. I have all of Diana Krall's CD's. Most of my audiophile friends don't care for her, or her recordings. Too processed and too much digital reverb to suit their tastes. I like her though. I think she's a swinging piano player too. I'm more into the more traditional jazz singers like Sarah Vaughn, Dinah Wasington, Jo Stafford and Billy Holiday. If you like great female jazz singers, you might want to explore these ladies. :-) |
Wanted to report on my experience with Herbie's dampers on my VTL MB450-III power amps Having had good results with the UltraSonic Rx dampers on my phono and pre I wanted to try something on my (currently undamped) power amps. As these run pretty hot I reached out to Robert for advice -- he said the UltraSonic Rx would work even in a power amp but that some users had had better results from the (somewhat more expensive) HAL-O III dampers so I elected to go with these -- quite a lot of money for the 16 size 50 and 4 size 9 I needed Relative to the Rx the HAL-O are a little harder to use as they do not have the rubber grommets instead with a titanium to glass contact you will have to be firm to get them on At first listen they seemed a little edgy and I was wondering if the Rx would be better but as the system has settled in these dampers have brought a quite impressive change. If I could sum it up in one word it would be 'control' -- every note is now vice precise and crescendi that had previously resulted in grain and noise now are completely clean. A vocal line alongside highly modulated bass is clear and independent and on mono records (btw a great way to test the effect of these dampers) you have a much improved ability to pick apart all the elements -- one of my test tracks (don't laugh) is "Mr Sandman" by the Chordettes (this is an old Ken Kessler favorite -- give it a try, with the HAL-O IIIs you can easily discern each voice and hear all the details in the backing tracks The one downside I see is that these things are so damn revealing that the limitations in my (pretty fancy) CD front end are laid clear -- maybe some fine tuning of the filters I am using can ameliorate this, I'm currently using a wide open filter so may now be hearing some of the high frequency filter effects that had previously been masked Anyway again highly recommended |
Frank, I've been playing with the Herbie's dampers for a few days now, however, they don't work well in my system. The bass was more solid and soundstage was more focused but I lost the extended high and smooth mid at the same time. As you know I listen to a lot of female vocal and those are the things that matter the most to me. I tried to play around with the damper position on the tubes but they just don't sound right no matter what I did. I think I will send them back unless you have some tips that you can share again. As soon as I removed the dampers, my system is back to normal again. It seems like the Herbies are overdamping my system. Meanwhile, I inserted only 1 ARC ring back into each tube and I noticed the high/mid are still good but the bass is more solid. So it's like getting the best of both worlds. Let me know what you think. Thx. Allan |
folkfreak ... Wow! That's a lot of tube dampeners. Odd, isn't it, that you're getting some real improvement from dampening so many tubes and yet in Allan system, he's getting over dampening as a result. Allan ... I think its possible to over-damp with some of these tweaks. Based upon my positive results by switching to the Herbie dampeners in the preamp, is hard to imagine that they would be a problem though. Nice that Herbie has the return policy. I have Herbie's tube dampeners coming in Monday's mail for the power tubes in the phono, preamp an CD player. I'll report the results here. Hopefully, they will make further improvements. Frank |
I suspect most people will find that Herbies tube dampers are quite sensitive to where on a particular tube they are placed. For example, on medium/large output tubes like 6SN7 the Herbies damper should sound correct/best when placed where the getter is located, which for bottom getters means on the lower portion of the tube. Also suggest trying placing the Herbies damper on the base itself instead of the glass. For small tubes the ideal location is usually but not always about 2/3 of the way up the tube. Also, when using many Herbies can I suggest trying one at a time, evaluating the sound incrementally. Otherwise, it's like tying to solve three simultaneous equations in four unknowns. |
Geoff, Thanks for your suggestion. I did play around with the position for the Herbies dampers but nothing seemed to release the high/mid back to my system. I guess my case is a little different than most of you here in the forum where you guys are using them on traditional preamps and power amps. I am using them on a pair of PCC88s acting as a input stage for the PS Audio BHK 250 power amp. It is not really a tube amp but a hybrid. I guess I will send them back. Frank, I am placing an order of 4 Red fuses to replace the rest of the rail fuses in my amp since they are on sale now. I am not sure if the Black fuses are twice as good as the Reds. What do you think? Allan |