Czarivey, that quote was mine, actually. Have you tried dressing the tubes in little schoolgirl outfits?
Tube dampeners on ARC gear ... FREE TWEAK
Here's a cheap (free) tweak for owners of ARC gear using the black tube dampeners. If you move both dampeners as far up toward the top of the tube as possible without having the top one fall off, taking care that both dampeners are solidly touching each other, you will get better dynamics, bass, mids, highs and a lower noise floor. Try it ... you'll like it.
Showing 16 responses by geoffkait
czarivey Try to remove dampers and see what’s there. Tubes don’t need to be dressed. Gosh, that’s weird. We’ve known all tubes are microphonic, even tubes that are marked "non-microphonic," for eons. Didn’t you get the memo? The good news is that you’re partially correct (if accidentally) as most dampers do more harm than good. |
don_c55 536 posts 05-26-2016 7:34pm Never liked dampers on tubes. They affect the thermal flow within the tube, and reduce the "Natural Bloom" of the music IMO! Hey, me too, never liked tube dampers - until Herbies came along. Finally someone figured out how to make them. Previously I had Pearl coolers, the Swiss Ensemble tube jackets, elastomer rings, ebony discs, and some others. The Herbies are open, dynamic, clean and melodious. |
georgelofi 1,520 posts 06-01-2016 5:40pm "If going down this path, don't buy "audiophile" ones that rip you a new one with pricing. Just pick your poison from here. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xsilicon+O+r... Cheers George" Sure, you can use the inexpensive ones, that is if you're enamored of that rolled off closed in sound. Like everything else in audio and life sometimes you get what you pay for. |
georgelofi 1,525 posts 06-03-2016 5:34am "Hey it’s not voodoo, all they do is to damp the cheap thin glass of todays new tubes from ringing, nothing else. Nothing inside of the metal tube structure itself anodes, cathodes, grids, getters, heaters ect, as that stuff is all bonded to the base material. If you want dead thick glass you have to look at NOS tubes. And no, any type of tube damper will not stop a tube from being microphonic." All tubes are microphonic, even NOS tubes. Even "low-microphonic" NOS tubes. As I said previously even the base suffers vibration. If it was only the glass that vibrated as you say there wouldn’t be an issue since the glass doesn't carry the signal at least the last time I looked. The internal parts must be subject to vibration, too, obviously. Furthermore, the ideal location for the damper is usually next to the getter, whether it’s a top getter or bottom getter. So it appears your theory probably needs some adjustment. Tootles |
mapman 13,366 posts 06-03-2016 12:04pm "Lots of information out there from many credible sources about tube microphonics. No voodoo there. Which dampers work best when needed? The standard ones that came on the tubes in my Arc pre-amp seem pretty simple and effective. Others might be better or at least produce different results for sure. YMMV most likely." Sorry to be the beare of bad news, but they all suck. Every single one of them, including the pricey Swiss Ensemble tube socks, all those cute little elastomer rings, the ebony hats the, crystals, what have you, all except one. And all those dampers seem like such a good idea, too. See if you can guess which one doesn’t suck. Yeah, you're right, there's lots of credible info out there. The trick is to separate the credible from the uh incredible. An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. |
oregonpapa OP 941 posts 06-03-2016 9:43am ^^^ "Reducing micro vibrations is a major key in obtaining a highly resolving system. As a vinyl lover, the only thing I want vibrating is that needle in the record groove. So many in the hobby, especially newbies, aren't aware of what can be done to reduce, or eliminate these vibrations. Tube dampeners are just one small area to attack ... even to the point of location of the tube rings on the tubes. Could a new topic be in the offing?" Sounds like voodoo to me. I'm down. |
Oregonpapa wrote, "geoffkait ... If the stock tube rings from ARC "suck," why is there such an improvement with them in the proper placement, and why the degradation of the sound when they are totally removed from the tubes?" I was was referring to generic elastomer rings, never tried the ARC tube rings. I guess they're what you call an exception. There's an exception to every rule. ;-) |
one observation is that all or almost all other dampers have a lot of contact surface area with the glass whereas Herbies dampers have the extreme minimum contact area due to their very clever construction. As Isoclean the Japanese high end emporium states so succinctly, "be careful of over dumping." |
Audiolover718 wrote, "The ARC rings sound constricted by comparison and almost give, dare I say "nervous" kind of presentation. The herbies brought a very relaxed sound, with an added sense of ease and weight to the sound. I believe the rings have something to do with the ARC gear having that solid state kind of presentation. I also feel like the Highes are cleaner and less bright than before." That's my experience with all of the elastomer rings I have tried as well as ALL other types of tube dampers with the notable exception of Herbies dampers. I also started with the original Herbies Halo dampers and have had the latest version as well. In fact, removing the elastomer rings and using no tube dampers at provided a more open sound. Could this whole thing be an example of expectation bias? cheers |
I think it's worth mentioning that for larger tubes like 6SN7 and large rectifier tubes such as the coke bottle Tung Sol, a second Herbies damper placed on the base of the tube will further improve upon the first damper (which should be located on the glass portion wherever the getter is located. For bottom getters the damper should be placed on the bottom of the glass. |
There’s more than one way to skin a cat. Use an external fan like the O 2 Cool (get it?) to cool down the offending tubes. Then you can use the Herbies dampers. I used to have the Bada headphone amp, a great hybrid tube amp that runs real hot. I used the O 2 Cool fan to cool the whole thing down so the tubes were only warm to the touch. No way I'm listening to tubes without Herbies dampers. Period. |
I suspect most people will find that Herbies tube dampers are quite sensitive to where on a particular tube they are placed. For example, on medium/large output tubes like 6SN7 the Herbies damper should sound correct/best when placed where the getter is located, which for bottom getters means on the lower portion of the tube. Also suggest trying placing the Herbies damper on the base itself instead of the glass. For small tubes the ideal location is usually but not always about 2/3 of the way up the tube. Also, when using many Herbies can I suggest trying one at a time, evaluating the sound incrementally. Otherwise, it's like tying to solve three simultaneous equations in four unknowns. |