Tube dampeners on ARC gear ... FREE TWEAK
^^^ Old school here too. However, over the years in the hobby I've discovered that everything vibrates on a micro level. including vacuum tubes. The vibration smears the sound. Great advances can be obtained in one's audio system by paying careful attention to these micro-vibrations. The tube dampeners are just one among many ways to treat the micro-vibration beast. Over the past couple of years I've concentrated on improving the system without buying any more new equipment. The difference between now and two years ago is just astounding. The next major break-through in our hobby will be in the area of getting micro-arcing in metal to metal electronic connections under control. Believe it or not, they smear the sound in very significant ways. Frank |
Frank as I expected. Nice! Thank you for trying that. Glad it improved your system once again. You're like me. I listen very early in morning. It's the only time I have enough energy or lowest pain levels to be able to do so. I have to wait until I can be healthy enough to get my Ref40 out of my rack to do this. ☹️ Can't wait now. Thx again Frank. You rule brother. All the best Richard |
czarivey Try to remove dampers and see what’s there. Tubes don’t need to be dressed. Gosh, that’s weird. We’ve known all tubes are microphonic, even tubes that are marked "non-microphonic," for eons. Didn’t you get the memo? The good news is that you’re partially correct (if accidentally) as most dampers do more harm than good. |
I always listen to my system while enjoying the morning coffee. Home roasted coffee, using only organically grown beans on small family owned farms, of course. We audiophiles have other obsessions too, ya know. *lol* Okay, so before this morning’s listening session, I moved all of the Herbies dampeners up to where the "getters" are. The result? More overall clarity in the presentation. Thanks to Richard and geoffkait for the suggestion. Very nice, guys. If anyone reading this is interested in getting into home roasting their coffee, here’s the site to visit: www.sweetmarias.com Excellent service. Excellent coffee from around the world. Yes, its a bother ... but its akin to converting from solid state to tubes. Once there you will never go back. :-) If you want my suggestions on roasting equipment, feel free to ask. Now back to the listening session ... Frank |
Hi Frank thx for giving it a shot and being so great! It's you that's the reason we're trying this stuff to begin with (starting this great discussion). Ive used many disc mats over the years especially versions from Marigo. My current drive -PS Audio's stupendous DMP has made me rethink using mats. I've not felt the need for one since introducing this into my system. All the best Richard |
Hi Frank So you didn't follow the all the way up to the top of the tube placement like the ARC rings? Did you try them there? FWIW on all the RX rings I have in my system I've never found the 1/3 placement to be optimum. On my amp on all four 12AX7s exactly one and a half inches from the bottom of the tube which is almost to the top of the 12AX7. On all 12 KT77 tubes right at the getters and same with the 6550 tubes in my Ref 40. ARC recommends damping placement all the way to the top of the 6H30 tubes. I've not put the Herbies I have had now for well over a year on my 6H30 tubes mainly due to my disability. FWIW You might try the top of the tube placement and see if you have improved sonics with your RX dampers there. The 1/3 placement is just a starting point Herbies recommends. The vast majority find differing placements are superior. Just thoughts. All the best Richard |
^^^ Allan ... I'm using the Synergistic Research Atmosphere level III. http://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-atmosphere-power-cables Here's a link to the A'gon thread. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-research-atmosphere-power-cords High end electronics is having a sale on the SR Black PC's now. http://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-red-black-uef-power-cords As you'll see in the above cable thread, I was using some very well respected PC's before making the jump to the SR Atmosphere III's. The improvement in every aspect of the musical presentation was heard immediately ... but after 100 hours of break-in, it was mind boggling. As you see from reading the PC thread, the much more affordable SR Black PC's get you about 80% there from what others have reported. Frank |
Allan ... You are entirely welcome. Glad you found the SS dampeners to work well for you. The Rx dampeners have been a real blessing in my system. It really odd how so many of these tweaks are system dependent. I predict that you are going to love what the Black fuses will do for your amp. As I stated in a much earlier post ... I thought with the ARC-REF-75se, with the KT150 tubes, that I finally found a grain free amp. The amp takes only one fuse. Replacing that fuse removed another layer of smear that I didn't realize was there. I'd be real curious how you make out with the fuses. Frank |
Frank, I returned the Rx dampers and exchanged for the SS dampers and they worked great in my system. I am experiencing the same thing you described on your previous posts but no cut off on high and mid this time:) Robert at Herbie's Audio also made it very easy! I am also thinking about pulling the trigger to replace all 4 rail fuses in my amp with the Black fuses since they are having some special in December. Thanks for all the tips and happy holidays to you! Allan |
Okay, so I've had the Herbie's tube dampeners on the three power tubes (6550's) for a week now. One in the phono stage, one in the preamp, and finally one in the CD player. Its more of what was experienced with the dampeners on the preamp signal tubes. Another veil has been lifted ... with the welcomed further improvement in accurate tonal balance. Its all improved from top to bottom including the most natural stand-up acoustic bass I've ever experienced in my system. With each installation of the Herbie tube dampeners, more grain is removed from the system allowing for a clearer picture of the musicians and their instruments. The 3-D relief becomes more pronounced, improving the realism of each performance. One of my favorite speakers from a tonal balance standpoint is the Harbeth 40.2's. With the addition of the Herbie's tube dampeners in the system, that's the kind of tonal balance I'm getting at this point. Honestly, I knew the Legacy Signature III's were a great speaker, especially when driven in tube gear ... but I had no idea they were THIS freakin' good. Its like listening to a big pair of Harbeth 40.2's except with better deep bass. Next month ... three more signal tubes in the phono and two more in the amp will get the Herbie's treatment. Stay tuned ... Frank |
^^^ Allan ... The Black fuses are a significant improvement over the Reds. I had my entire system completed with the Reds when the Blacks hit the market. I now have the system completed with the Blacks. There is no way I would want to go back to the Reds unless I had to use one as a spare. I would suggest that if cost is a factory that you do one fuse at a time, but make it black. :-) Frank |
Geoff, Thanks for your suggestion. I did play around with the position for the Herbies dampers but nothing seemed to release the high/mid back to my system. I guess my case is a little different than most of you here in the forum where you guys are using them on traditional preamps and power amps. I am using them on a pair of PCC88s acting as a input stage for the PS Audio BHK 250 power amp. It is not really a tube amp but a hybrid. I guess I will send them back. Frank, I am placing an order of 4 Red fuses to replace the rest of the rail fuses in my amp since they are on sale now. I am not sure if the Black fuses are twice as good as the Reds. What do you think? Allan |
I suspect most people will find that Herbies tube dampers are quite sensitive to where on a particular tube they are placed. For example, on medium/large output tubes like 6SN7 the Herbies damper should sound correct/best when placed where the getter is located, which for bottom getters means on the lower portion of the tube. Also suggest trying placing the Herbies damper on the base itself instead of the glass. For small tubes the ideal location is usually but not always about 2/3 of the way up the tube. Also, when using many Herbies can I suggest trying one at a time, evaluating the sound incrementally. Otherwise, it's like tying to solve three simultaneous equations in four unknowns. |
folkfreak ... Wow! That's a lot of tube dampeners. Odd, isn't it, that you're getting some real improvement from dampening so many tubes and yet in Allan system, he's getting over dampening as a result. Allan ... I think its possible to over-damp with some of these tweaks. Based upon my positive results by switching to the Herbie dampeners in the preamp, is hard to imagine that they would be a problem though. Nice that Herbie has the return policy. I have Herbie's tube dampeners coming in Monday's mail for the power tubes in the phono, preamp an CD player. I'll report the results here. Hopefully, they will make further improvements. Frank |
Frank, I've been playing with the Herbie's dampers for a few days now, however, they don't work well in my system. The bass was more solid and soundstage was more focused but I lost the extended high and smooth mid at the same time. As you know I listen to a lot of female vocal and those are the things that matter the most to me. I tried to play around with the damper position on the tubes but they just don't sound right no matter what I did. I think I will send them back unless you have some tips that you can share again. As soon as I removed the dampers, my system is back to normal again. It seems like the Herbies are overdamping my system. Meanwhile, I inserted only 1 ARC ring back into each tube and I noticed the high/mid are still good but the bass is more solid. So it's like getting the best of both worlds. Let me know what you think. Thx. Allan |
Wanted to report on my experience with Herbie's dampers on my VTL MB450-III power amps Having had good results with the UltraSonic Rx dampers on my phono and pre I wanted to try something on my (currently undamped) power amps. As these run pretty hot I reached out to Robert for advice -- he said the UltraSonic Rx would work even in a power amp but that some users had had better results from the (somewhat more expensive) HAL-O III dampers so I elected to go with these -- quite a lot of money for the 16 size 50 and 4 size 9 I needed Relative to the Rx the HAL-O are a little harder to use as they do not have the rubber grommets instead with a titanium to glass contact you will have to be firm to get them on At first listen they seemed a little edgy and I was wondering if the Rx would be better but as the system has settled in these dampers have brought a quite impressive change. If I could sum it up in one word it would be 'control' -- every note is now vice precise and crescendi that had previously resulted in grain and noise now are completely clean. A vocal line alongside highly modulated bass is clear and independent and on mono records (btw a great way to test the effect of these dampers) you have a much improved ability to pick apart all the elements -- one of my test tracks (don't laugh) is "Mr Sandman" by the Chordettes (this is an old Ken Kessler favorite -- give it a try, with the HAL-O IIIs you can easily discern each voice and hear all the details in the backing tracks The one downside I see is that these things are so damn revealing that the limitations in my (pretty fancy) CD front end are laid clear -- maybe some fine tuning of the filters I am using can ameliorate this, I'm currently using a wide open filter so may now be hearing some of the high frequency filter effects that had previously been masked Anyway again highly recommended |
Nope, never tried that. I see you like the modern female jazz singers. I have all of Diana Krall's CD's. Most of my audiophile friends don't care for her, or her recordings. Too processed and too much digital reverb to suit their tastes. I like her though. I think she's a swinging piano player too. I'm more into the more traditional jazz singers like Sarah Vaughn, Dinah Wasington, Jo Stafford and Billy Holiday. If you like great female jazz singers, you might want to explore these ladies. :-) |
By the way, Allan ... this is the Brubeck CD I referred to in the above post: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buried-Treasures-Recorded-Live-in-Mexico-City-Paul-Desmond-Dave-Brubeck-Quar... If you like Brubeck, Desmond and Morello ... buy this one. Frank |
Allan ... Naw ... It'll be the REF-6 if I do anything. I have to have that additional 15%. Its a curse, I know. Just a minute ago I as listening to the Dave Brubeck Quartet playing a live concert in Mexico City. It was like being there. I keep wondering how much more information can be gleaned from those record grooves and digital bits. More Herbie's tube dampeners will tell the story .,.. for awhile. |
Allan ... I don't have a clue. Honest. However, I am getting such a natural musical presentation from the Herbie's tube dampeners by themselves, that I have no compulsion to try the ARC rings in combination with the Herbie dampeners. My audiophile friends are super critical and they are blown away by the system now, as am I. I have 12 used ARC rings that I can send you for free if you want to try it for yourself. :-) Frank |
