TT, 12" Tonearm. Who tried and ended up preferring 12" arm?

I did not, my final TT came with a very nice condition factory cover.

I would write them, they probably already have made one for your model, might have Cad Drawing and Photo of it.

@elliottbnewcombjr

Did you ever end up purchasing a dust cover from jnb audio?  If so, are you happy with its quality?  I want a new cover for my Thorens

Oh Boy, I did it, Black Bird from Russia,

longest 12":, actually effective 12.5", 317mm.

Wonderful, but not easy, my comments here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/12-1-2-arm-newartvinyl-black-bird-yea-or-nay

Long arm quest led to large plinth, let to 2 arms, led to both mono arm/cartridge and stereo arm/cartridge ready and waiting,

Thanks again to everyone's help, I couldn't be happier!

Elliott

member 'Oracle' Preference: Tonearm Effective Length 12-3/16" (308mm)

found a very interesting old post about TT,

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=58779&hilit=ar+arm+rega+conversion&sid=38d8985ef898716a0a955d54dcf969f0&start=120

.................................

pg 9, from member 'Oracle' about the preference for Total Effective 308mm (12-3/16") Arms

Re: Some Thoughts on Turntable Design

• Quote

Post by Oracle_309 » 18 Jun 2013 15:53

"My thoughts:

first thanks to jraudio for his comments. In many ways I couldn’t agree more. Of course in some ways I may disagree, but those are due to personal experiences outside of the normal "audiophile" experience ;)

Regarding the subject of wow and flutter, it has been suggested that the eccentricity or improper location of the spindle hole of a record effects the total W&F more than most motor drive systems (that is, the centre hole location of a record in regard to the grooves of the record). To me this makes sense, but as I do not have the technology available to actually measure this I cannot confirm nor deny this.

Regarding the comparisons of different length tonearms from the same manufacturer, jraudio’s approach is right on (at least in my mind). There is a difference to the effective tonearm mass and that difference can have a profound effect on the calculated resonant frequency. Adding dampening is a stop-gap solution at best. Was it Einstein or Feynman who suggested that (usually) the easiest solution is most likely to provide the best solution to a problem? Ideally NO dampening should be used, so material selection for tonearm construction must consider dampening and rigidity properties. Differing geometries of tubing can also have a profound effect (such as single or double butted tubing, tapered tubing, solid beam or shaft, I-beam, etc.) on both of these qualities.

The cartridge/tonearm (materials and bearing), internal wiring, electrical connectors, physical coupling of the stylus to the cartridge body (whether direct as used in most moving coils, or indirectly as used in any customer replaceable stylus types), physical coupling of the tonearm mount to the plinth or sub-chassis (dependant on whether or not the turntable has a suspension or not) and phono pre-amplifier must be considered as a system, not as isolated parts. This is one of the reasons some people end up with something that simply sounds way better than it should (particularly if the complete system is somewhat "budget" or even terribly price matched. Please remember that it is not the amount of money being spent as an indicator of suitability but performance, this cannot be overstated) or conversely. I’ve heard many expensive turntables (for that matter many expensive complete systems) that have failed to thrill, while many much less expensive systems shine.

I make simple (but I think well performing) tonearms (but not commercially) and can attest to differences in the sound of different lengths, but I choose to make tonearms in the 308mm effective length. My reasoning is pretty simple. Here’s a list:

• proper alignment, or rather finer adjustments to the offset angle are easier to perform
• my material of choice has an effective mass of approximately 12 grams in this length
• my material of choice is incredibly stiff
• my material of choice is a simple, non tapered tube
• I use Grado cartridges almost exclusively (whether you like them or not is not the concern here, but most modern ones have a mass of 4.5 grams and a compliance in the 15-20 x10-6cm/Dyne range). The match of 17 grams effective weight (including headshell, wiring and cartridge screws), a compliance of 15-20 x10-6cm/Dyne and the 4.5 gram cartridge mass results in a resonant frequency of approximately 8-9 Hz

I have considerable opinions (again not verified by measurement but by purely subjective experiences) regarding the design of suspension systems, drive systems and the use of plinth materials. Just a preview: I do have a preference for all of the above, but this is not to say that there are not excellent examples that are contrary to my preferences."

linked to user name

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/gallery/image/24663?sid=38d8985ef898716a0a955d54dcf969f0

meanwhile, I just bought this one (also from Canada. He assures me it will arrive unharmed).

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649579421-victor-jvc-tt-81-high-quality-quartz-lock-turntable-with-fidelity-research-tonearm-reduced/

It has 9" Fidelity Research Arm on the side, and a rear hole, presumably for 9", which is where I will put the Lustre GST-801 arm that arrived in wonderful condition.

Exact distance? I'll deal with it.

refund: it was found on canuckaudiomart, not eBay.

1st, $1,000. insurance from UPS. Then try PayPal for the $104. not covered by insurance. If the money goes to seller, and he refunds me via PayPal, then PayPal might refund me $46. it charged me to send the money. Then, perhaps my Credit Card linked to PayPal will kick in something. I could end up making money.

Probably the seller have no idea how to pack for international transit. Everything must have been disassembled, turntable must have been wrapped, the best way is to use macroflex spray between the box and the wrapped turntable, this is the best way to protect everything, this macroflex liquid foam (when it's frozen) hold the turntable tightly, so it does not move in the box at all, great protection even for a far longer transit than Canada to USA. 

Make claim with paypal, open the case on paypal for this transaction, send it back for full refund, paypal will cover return shipping, this is buyers protection. 

 

Ouch!
Sorry for the disappointing result.
Unfortunately all too common with UPS.
I swear they could break a rubber ball!
Good luck in your renewed search!

Disaster

Dual Arm TT with tt81 and UA-7082 arm arrived from Canada severely damaged.

Box was a mess outside, clearly had been dropped. I had driver note box condition, opened it.

3 legs snapped off base, those plastic legs broken into pieces, two big gouges in top edges of wood base, dust cover corner snapped off. Arm, cartridge, din cable, transformer all ok.

Took damage photos, called UPS 20 minutes after it got here.

UPS picks it up today, does local damage inspection within 2 days, then UPS contacts the seller to process a damage claim.

It was properly packed IMO, but it had a serious fall somehow.

Got my eye on 2 others, but, need refund!!!

Time to throw out all my vinyl replay gear obviously then and grab myself an old ipod and set of earbuds.

I hate cricket...….

That was funny.

If you have a problem with using a dust cover and it is not just in your head it is because your turntable and/or dust cover are designed incorrectly. In either case you get inferior sound particularly if your turntable is in the room with your system. 
The Dust cover can not be mounted to the platform carrying the platter and/or tonearm. The SOTA Cosmos is an excellent example of a turntable beautifully designed for a dust cover. The dust cover is mounted to the external chassis. The sub chassis is suspended inside with the platter and tonearm mounted to it. The SOTA sounds better with it's dustcover down because all the other sound in the room is attenuated over 20 db. The platter, tonearm and cartridge are better isolated from the environment. With the SME there is no external enclosure to mount a dust cover to so I sit the turntable on a platform to which the dust cover is mounted. The dust cover does not touch the SME.
If you have an unsuspended plinth to which the platter, tone arm and dust cover are mounted the dust cover may transfer some vibration at resonance frequencies to the active parts of the turntable making things sound worse. These tables and designs like the VPIs and Clearaudios need to be set on a platform to which the dust cover is mounted then you will improve the sound with a dust cover and prolong the life of your records, tonearm and cartridge. 
This is obvious and the case unless you hear micro vibrations like lewm.
In which case your system is always going to sound lousy and you might as well give up and play cricket.  

Best way to see it is a binocular dissection microscope. You get much better depth of field this way.  

If you want to see it just like a re-tipper can see it then you need a USB microscope. 

But i'm fine with macro lens for iPhone when i'm taking pictures of my cartridges, here is the one with unused stylus (NOS FR PMC-3) 

MICROSCOPE.

Final, repeat, FINAL part of this step up is to get a Microscope to really see Stylus.

What power is enough? Too much is too shallow focus depth I believe.

I see units that clamp on cell phone cameras, ...?

USB to computer?

I'll definitely be testing my existing cartridges in the 7082 arm with the Shure V15 torture LP with resonance test bands, as well as the Victor ZS1 that is already in it.

As I have said before Lewm, sometimes stuff works even when on paper it should not.
But the last time I made a statement along similar lines over what I tried and it sort of worked, Chakster jumped all over it.
Maybe he has mellowed and realized that sometimes it just works out.

Chak, I’m surprised the 3P is so light. My 10.5 inch 2A in red cedar is at least 12g. I never use any FR headshell in the 64S. Much of the mass of the 64S is due to the OEM headshell. I tend to use a CF headshell that weighs about 9 g. But your point is well taken if the 3P is as light as you say. And both of us are violating the golden rule when we pair these tonearms with high compliance cartridges.

Dust cover on when not playing, off when playing are the rules at this casa.

To do otherwise is counterproductive to the goal of excellent sound.

12-inch tonearm made of cocobolo must have very high effective mass. Fine for low compliance cartridges. Not so fine for high compliance ones. There is no single best length or best material for a tonearm.

@lewm

18g, since there is no detachable "headshell" on my version of Reed 3p we can only add the mass of the cartridge and screws.

So when you mount an MM on your Fidelity-Research FR-64s the "problem" is much more serious than with Reed Cocobolo. I think the mass of FR 64s is twice as much. However, you reported a good results with MM, i also can say that 18g Reed was superb with mid compliance MM cartridges (Garrott p77, Victor X-1 and X-1II, Glanz 61, AT-ML180 etc).

I bought my Reed especially for ZYX Premium 4D SB2 when i sold my EPA-100 about 5 years ago, but everything turned up not as i expected, so i ended up using different cartridges on Reed arm. I remember i was happy with Garrott P77.  

Seller says he is shipping my TT monday from Canada. I re-arranged everything, made a big improvement in stability I was putting off, ordered a tempered glass shelf for the monster.

Apparently not " everybody" it seems ....

Everyone knows dustcovers down close in the sound. :-)  I found that out on my LP12 back in the 80s.

Metal lids do the same thing to tube preamps. 

I have to err on the side of Lewm regarding dustcovers.
I will be blunt and state I have no idea what causes the difference but playing with the dustcover in place and then with it off is akin to lifting a shroud on the music.
It sounds corny but it is more open and dynamic with dustcover off and this is from THREE separate tables.

I use the dustcovers for two reasons.
To keep dust off the tables when NOT in play.
To provide a nice resting place for my tired old cats who otherwise would sit on the darn platter I am sure! 

12-inch tonearm made of cocobolo must have very high effective mass. Fine for low compliance cartridges. Not so fine for high compliance ones. There is no single best length or best material for a tonearm.

I’ve gone through too many tonearms to list, beginning with the old Garrard articulated arm, through Transcriptors, VPI, Unipivot and Graham. For a while, my vote went to the JMW Memorial 10.5-inch arm for its price, straightforward setup, ease of adjustment and use, but on my current turntable I went with an an Apparition 12-inch arm from Analog Instruments (New Zealand) and I'm not looking back.
First, assuming you’re doing the installation yourself, the geometry defined by the longer arm makes initial setup and adjustment much easier and slightly less critical. Second, the cocobolo wood arm tube does everything it’s supposed to do regarding vibration/resonance. Even with my midrange Shelter cartridge, the sound is pure and absolutely clean. Since my table was custom-designed and built, there is no plinth. Instead, a 70-pound solid brass pillar supports the tonearm; positioning is infinitely variable and, once set up, it’s virtually immoveable. The Apparition is a very simple pivot design that is not without caveats (the dimple in which the pivot sits is subject to wear and mis-placement), but what it lacks in sophistication it more than makes up for in ease of setup, use and quality.
In short, I'm a member of “the longer the better” club. I have no experience with air-bearing tangential arms but, given the choice (and with the room for placement), I would go with a 12- or even a 13-inch pivot arm over a 9- or 10-inch arm any day.

Dear Mijo, You wrote, "Even a cheap modern turntable transfers very little energy to the surrounding environment. A good turntable with a good record hold down system that dampens the record with a stiff multi bearing arm set up correctly will transfer virtually nothing."
Where did I say that "turntables" transfer energy into the "environment"?  What I inferred was that cartridges are microphonic; they all give off some audible noises as they decode the musical signal.  Now it's my turn to be incredulous, if you say you've never heard such a phenomenon. But here is where I will confess to being guilty of a common audiophile sin:  To me, that sound energy coming directly from cartridges is obvious, and to me it has always been obvious that dust covers add a coloration that I do not like.  So, I put these two facts together and ascribed causality.  I hate when others do that, so I plead mea culpa for having done it in this case.  I've never proven that the coloration imparted by dust covers is per se due to cartridge microphony. Suffice to say that for me dust covers add a coloration that MIGHT be due to trapping the acoustic energy put out by a cartridge during play.  Thus I never ever use a dust cover.  I think you would find that most serious vinylistas don't use them either.  I wonder how many others on this thread use dust covers.


Elliott:  If someone can tell me how to post photos here, I will show you how I re-enforced and increased the mass of the Victor QL-10 plinth that came with my TT101. All done with aluminum custom fitted.

DUAL ARM TT Bought

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649553719-victor-jvc-tt-81-direct-drive-quartz-lock-turntable-with-long-victor-ua-7082-tonearm/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email
................................

Main longer arm, 7082 11-1/8" effective length.

Stereo Only. use it's Z1s cartridge, upgrade Stylus to SAS/Boron.

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/dt-z1s-sas-b/  (made by Victor Nivico)

light 1.5g tracking, J1 cartridge is high 5 mV output
........................................

Rear, to be purchased +/- 9" arm (not get a UA-7045)

Stereo and Mono use

select an arm specifically for medium/high compliance STEREO cartridge
and a medium/high compliance MONO cartridge.

That way I can continue to use both my Shures: 97xe elliptical and V15VxMR microline. Both light tracking, high output, use or not use Dynamic Stabilizer Brush (brush also grabs dust, reduces static). Both light tracking/high output

97xe: get an SAS/Boron Stylus from Jico

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/n97xe-sas-b/  (made by Shure).


V15VmxMR: get SAS/Boron from Jico

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/vn5xmr-hg-sas-b/  (made by Shure).
................................

Rear +/- 9" medium/high compliance arm
(need to wait till I can measure the distance of the tt's existing rear hole).

suggestions ________???
................................................

mijostyn

while tempting, I am not going for the tt with tt61 and pioneer arm. I'm gonna get the stereo 7082 arm and cartridge/stylus resonled first.

Then measure the distance: spindle to the rear hole of the tt I bought when it gets here. 7045 arm is effective 9-5/8".

Mono Cartridge: Depending on chosen arm, I might buy the Ortofon 2 M SE with Shibata Stylus, output 3mV, but, I prefer the higher output 5.0 mV of the Grado ME+ (only comes elliptical).

lewm,

I'm handy, I could fix the rubber of any 7045 I buy. Does the flexibility of the rubber make much difference?

Being careful, before choosing the rear arm for Mono,

I will wait to see the exact location of the existing rear hole on the dual arm tt I bought.

We don't know what arm it was drilled for.

UA-7045 is effective 9-5/8"

I am warming up to the Grado ME+ Mono Cartridge, waiting for Grado to tell me the compliance. It's elliptical, not Shibata like the Ortofon, but the Grado internals sound advantageous, and help suppress Resonance.

Elliot, smart man. Measure twice cut once. My contractor had that stenciled on his truck.
The Pioneer arm is in the same ball park as the JVC arm which I like better but I have to admit my preference is instinctive. Most tonearms with removable head shells have higher effective masses. That relatively heavy mechanism is right at the end of the tonearm and adds directly to the effective mass. If you want to use a high compliance cartridge 20u/mN or higher you have to use an arm with a fixed head shell or a novel system like the Kuzma 4 point 9. Look at the Pro-Ject Evo 12. That is a relatively light 12 inch arm. The SME V 12 is another but that one is very pricey. A used Kuzma Stogi Ref 313 might fit in nicely. 

Mike  

lewm, you have to be kidding. Please tell me you are kidding. Do you have ghosts in your closet? Even a cheap modern turntable transfers very little energy to the surrounding environment. A good turntable with a good record hold down system that dampens the record with a stiff multi bearing arm set up correctly will transfer virtually nothing. You can place an ear right next to both my tables and you will hear absolutely nothing. To say that this energy bounces off a mechanically isolated dust cover and somehow interferes with the signal is next to ludicrous. How can you possibly compare this to loudspeakers in the same room blaring at 90 dB?  I know you do not like dust covers but you will have to find another reason. You might just say you don't like them instinctively and be done with it. Your loss. Even if somehow a proper dust cover caused some mystical degradation in sound protecting the record is paramount. Not to mention your tonearm. Dust is certainly not a good thing for them either.  The myth about the dust cover being bad was perpetrated by manufacturers that either did not want to supply them or had designs that made integrating a dust cover difficult. Other manufacturers that had to compete on a cost basis were forced into not supplying them further advancing the myth. Marketing and mythology are first cousins.

Elliot, I guess you have decided to be anal about the rubber bushing and CW droop, but in any case, the UA77 is not in the same league with the UA7045 or 7082.  I'm sure it "works", however.  It's actually a piece of cake to replace the rubber grommet on 7045/7082, if droop or sag bother you.  You need a tiny metric socket wrench to remove two tiny set screws and a good hardware store or mail order from McMaster-Carr.

well, compatibility with high output mono cartridge is the draw, IF it's a decent arm. I don't need VTA on the fly for the short momo arm..

that base's wood is not sun bleached like the one I bought which I will re-finish. Perhaps I paint one Red!

Not familiar with that Pioneer arm but you would get yet another huge Victor plinth and a lower model tt-61 table to boot.
Guess that depends on what f you need any of that or just resell minus the arm thereby getting the pioneer arm for cheap.
I can't imagine it is as good as a 7045 though.

and, what about this Pioneer Tonearm? 

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649548072-victor-tt-61-quality-direct-drive-turntable/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email 

mijostyn

thanks for your advice Mike.

Today I rearranged equip, it will fit in better than I feared. Measured twice, cut once, I will be ready before it comes. He will ship from Canada after new years.

uberwaltz

At first glance, .... but, the weight is all the way forward.

I wrote the seller a few days ago, he moved the counterweight back as I asked him to do, and it sags more he said.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-JVC-UA-7045-Tone-arm-In-Excellent-Condition-From-Japan/333297491542?hash=item4d9a141e56:g:v60AAOSwYUZdVQT9

Now I need a 9" arm for a mono cartridge. I assumed I would get UA-7045 to go with mt UA-7082.

two 7045 on ebay, both sagging counterweight, around $400. delivered.

What do we think about UA-77, about $350. delivered. No rubber issue?

https://www.ebay.com/i/352753675249?campaign-id=90001&run-date=20191224091500&templateId=c9bb7c1b-7d13-47db-a41b-43e64b1b36cc&templateVersion=133&co=11&placement-type=mfe.piyiP&user-id=44707615456&instance=1577204100&site-id=0&trackingCode=32TE75001_T_AGM_CT1_ORM&placement-type-name=mfe.piyiP&mfe-Id=100690

Mike, Your testfor the validity of a dust cover is fatally flawed. The problem with dust covers is due to the fact that sonic energy radiates from the cartridge as it traverses the LP. Trapping that energy under a dust cover so that vibrations bounce around and feed back on the cartridge body is not good. You’ve ignored that very real phenomenon.

Elliot, stay away from any tone arm that, "needs repair." A tonearm should never need repair. Any good tonearm is a life long investment. If it needs repair it was abused in some way or it was a bad design.
Any tonearm with an offset angle requires an anti skate devise. Not having one interferes with the cartridges ability to track the right channel (outside) and increase both stylus and groove wear on both sides. You can demonstrate this to yourself with the HI FI News test record. Play the anti skate test and adjust your anti skate as per instructions. Now play the tracking ability test. Gently lift the anti skate device to inactivate it. What happens? You will have an "Oh Crap" moment. The most important function of any tonearm/cartridge combination is to be able to track the record.
The best way to do a dust cover on a turntable that does not have one is to incorporate it with a platform. To be functional a dust cover must be hinged. Trying to place a loose dust cover over a turntable that is playing is difficult, time consuming and dangerous. A dust cover you do not use while the table is playing is 75% worthless. So, you hinge the dust cover to the turntable’s platform. My favorite design is a 1" thick acrylic base with a fixed upright back higher than the turntable to which the dust cover is hinged. These guys can make it for you. https://www.displaycasej.com/custom-audio-covers
They do excellent work. They made the dust cover for my SME and it is flawless.
Some people here like lewm will tell you that dust covers SOUND TERRIBLE. As long as the dust cover is not attached directly to the structure carrying the platter and tonearm a dust cover will actually make your turntable sound noticeably BETTER. Using a dust cover is just like wearing hearing protection muffs. It attenuates any noise in the room decreasing the turntable’s noise pollution exposure by 20 or more dB. My SME dust cover is 1/4" thick. I played a 1000 kHz test tone by CD and adjusted the volume by meter to 90 dB. Then I put the meter on top of the SME’s platter and closed the dust cover. The volume dropped to 64 dB a 26 dB improvement. It is like putting your turntable in another room.
Next. Any dust on the record while it is playing is detrimental to the sound, record and stylus wear. The stylus generates thousands of volts of static electricity while it is playing which attracts dust like a magnet pulling it right into the groove. The dust cover limits the amount of dust in the vicinity of the static charged record. Along with a dust cover get one of these. https://www.sleevecityusa.com/Antistatic-Record-Cleaning-Arm-p/tac-01.htm This will discharge the record while it is playing and collect any incidental dust at the same time. Records that I purchase new never need cleaning. Since I do not buy used records I do not need a record cleaning machine. I have a Spin Clean for the rare occasion that someone brings a record over to hear but all my close audiophile friends use the same system.

Good Luck,
Mike

This one does not look to have very much droop at all

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-JVC-UA-7045-Tone-arm-In-Excellent-Condition-From-Japan/333297491542?...

For options, I found and bought the optional extra counterweight, fits either 7082 or 7045

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193237660632

Yes, this is what you need for heavier MC carts or heavier headshells on your UA-7082 

here's a 9" arm option, maybe $500. usd delivered.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649548072-victor-tt-61-quality-direct-drive-turntable/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email 

complete dual arm deck, (looks cleaner than the one I just bought), with a tt61, and a 

Pioneer Tonearm ....... anyone know anything about it?

OK, now I’m looking for a UA-7045 arm to use with a Mono Cartridge.

found these pics of it

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649253288-vintage-victor-jvc-ua-7045-tonearm/images/1151919/

only found two in Japan with Sagging counterweights, $350. - $400.

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=ua+7045

For options, I found and bought the optional extra counterweight, fits either 7082 or 7045

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193237660632

Elliott
When I was looking I was lucky and stumbled across mine right here on Audiogon, it was the only complete all Victor dual arm plinth version I had seen at that time.
We struck what I thought was a fair deal but then like yourself I was shocked at just how large and massive the plinth was when I unboxed it and saw it in person!
Setup was a breeze and I already had a stepdown from my Victor TT-71 so was ready to play music right away.

I am sure you will be very happy with it indeed.
Merry Christmas and enjoy your present to yourself, the best kind!

uberwaltz

As far as I could find, there are only two available in the world, the one I bought and luckily got out of in Japan, and this one. Whew!

OK, I bought the one from Canada, total with all fees, delivered ... $1,104. usd. He repaired the tonearm rubber, see last photos, sure glad I learned about that here.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649553719-victor-jvc-tt-81-direct-drive-quartz-lock-turntable-with-long-victor-ua-7082-tonearm/

It has original Headshell and Cartridge: Victor Z1s, not sure what Stylus is in it. And includes voltage converter.

I’ve got some carpentry to do here to fit the monster.

Thanks everyone for all the help, it made a big difference in my success.

Happy Holidays, Elliott

Probably busy with, you know, Christmas stuff.
$912 USD sounds fair especially as it has the x-1 Cart and a step down transformer.
Hope it works out for you.

Well, the guy in Canada has not responded to my offer. After he fixed the tonearm, he raised the price +$100, to $1,200. Canadian. ($912. USD).

I'll let you know of course.

Elliott