TT, 12" Tonearm. Who tried and ended up preferring 12" arm?

I did not, my final TT came with a very nice condition factory cover.

I would write them, they probably already have made one for your model, might have Cad Drawing and Photo of it.

Just found this JVC alignment kit. It indicates JL-B44 tonearm effective length is 245mm, 9-5/8". Several places call it a 12" tonearm???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-JL-B41-B44-B55-B77-QL-5-7-A7-8-10-Y3F-Y5F-Y7-Tonearm-Alignment-Protractor/112624526630?hash=item1a38f1e526:g:LpMAAOSwjShdfjQd

keeping things more affordable, I am looking at

George Merril's Gem Dandy PolyTable Super 12 with a Jelco 12" arm,  3 Jelco arm choices, 750L, 850L, 950L.  new: $3,000 to $3,700. plus tax and shipping.

http://www.hifigem.com/PolyTableSUPER12.html

No dust cover, I would have to make something (which I could/would do).
.....................

Also considering an old JVC JL-B44 which came with a factory 12" arm, integral dust cover (important for me). As-Is or Refurb. $600 to $1,000.

not many around,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys6eWvwfLaQ

two eBay, from Japan

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264512255947?ViewItem=&item=264512255947

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-JL-B44-Direct-Drive-Turntable/153409634015?hash=item23b7ed3edf:g:XzsAAOSwh0NchHAp

Thanks for the advice.

So, up from 850L tonearm to 950L tonearm is + $300. Over many years, what's +10%?

Difference? limits cartridge type? advice?

He agreed. TT81 TT with the UA-7082 arm, wide plinth with a spare board waiting for a 9" arm (for a new mono cartridge), and importantly wide dust cover! .... $1,280. delivered with tax.

From Japan, confirmed working, no returns, wish me luck. I looked at his eBay store, a HUGE seller, 98% positive, I decided to take the risk.

This will hold me until I turn 75 in a few years when I probably will go for something new. Famous last words, right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTOR-CL-P2-TT-81-UA-7082-set-AC100V-Free-Shipping-d506/264532995172 
.....................................

ARM LENGTH

Denon specs for UA-7082 arm: effective length 282mm = 11-1/8". the shorter 7045 arm effective length is 245mm = 9-5/8" (If I get the matching Denon arm for mono). After researching more, I am actually happy with the 11-1/8" rather than full 12" regarding mass, compliance, overall size of TT. It's a move up from existing effective 232mm 9-1/8" arc.

SPRINGY Floors

If I had saved my SME 3009, I could have popped it in the back board for mono. I restored it years ago with help and parts from SME. I got rid of it and the Thorens TD124 because my floors are springy, and the Thorens' magnificent bearing couldn't deal with vertical vibration well. The speed control of the Thorens was cool, but it must be said, as temperature varied speed control was Needed!

TT is now in better location, but no dancing at that end of the room please. House was built in 1951, I think the lumber was not properly dried due to excessive building spree after the war. I could brace underneath from the crawl space, now I just 'Walk away Renee' carefully.

Anyway, I will re-think suspension for this unit.

...................................................

MONO CARTRIDGE ADVICE? (need strong signal).

I have my McIntosh mx110z tube tuner/preamp with several phono inputs, happily two MM, and I love the sound of it's phono stage. (I wasn't a fan of prior McIntosh SS C28 phono preamp). So, two arms in is easy.

I also love the sound of it's FM tuner, and as I often mention, McIntosh MODE switch is a great help refining my speakers brilliance and presence controls, refining anti-skate ... And, it has MONO Mode for Mono LP's. Many tube preamps do not exceed 6 tubes, this sucker has 17.

..............................

Need Strong Cartridge Signal

The preamp has hum that starts just above my max listening volume, so I need to get a mono cartridge with high enough output, Shure 97xe gives 4.0mV now. so I wouldn't go below 4.0mV for the new Mono cartridge.

I'm gonna take the preamp to McIntosh in the spring when I visit my photo friend who lives 15 minutes from their headquarters in Binghamton, NY. They are very helpful. Last spring I pre-arranged, dropped both my SS pair (2250 amp, C28 preamp) off before lunch thursday, they had them ready to go the following Monday afternoon. Sold them to get the new tube pair, Cayin A88T (mk1 for 16 ohm tap) and the mx110z.

btw, I just changed the Cayin's 6550 tubes for KT88's. I was happy with the 6550's but I prefer the KT88's.

I decided to make an offer of $1,200 delivered for this old Denon with old but darn good motor TT81, long arm UA-7082, and a board with hole for a 9" arm.

I want Direct Drive, their Double Bi-Directional Servo is only on TT101; TT81; and TT71 motors

I'm thinking Stereo for  it's 12" arm, add 9" arm with Mono cartridge later, maybe Valentine's Day.

I have dusty forced air heat/cool, a dust cover is very important, a big dust cover for 2 arm setup is rare.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTOR-CL-P2-TT-81-UA-7082-set-AC100V-Free-Shipping-d506/264532995172

IF Super 12 had a full dust cover, .... I could probably get a big one made for $200. by this guy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-DP-59L-New-JnB-Audio-Turntable-Dust-Cover-Made-in-USA/182380045189

Wish me luck.

this cheapo 100watt 100 v converter appeals to me as it adds no box or cords anywhere, just plug in.

https://voltage-converter-transformers.com/collections/japan-up-down-voltage-transformers-100v-110v/products/vt-100j-japan-to-usa-voltage-transformer-100-watt

I suppose I could use a cord to locate the little 100 watt transformer away from other stuff, which would be similar to using one of these, 200watt version

https://voltage-converter-transformers.com/collections/japan-up-down-voltage-transformers-100v-110v/products/vt200j-japanese-100v-110v-step-up-down-transformer-200-watt

Any hum issues?

Any issue having the little transformer directly into a duplex wall outlet (that also powers 120v stuff via extension cord from the 2nd outlet)?

mijostyn

thanks for sharing your experiences and advice

chakster

I saw that, I shall see how much it sags when it gets here, I had to replace the rubber of my SME 3009.

JVC factory sheet shows the original was never straight

https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/etc/ua-7082.html

looking closely at your new example, it is not perfectly straight

Many JVC arms, birds eye view, the rear portion isn't even a straight line, ....?

I am near NYC if a service center can be recommended.

lewm

thanks for your help.

My notes emphasize the word DOUBLE, i.e. 'Double Bi-Directional Servo'. (my nickname: DBDS) I read about it, only retained that it was the peak of their ideas back then.

I noted only 3 TT have DBDS, TT101, TT81, TT71. I also noted that those motors can be found in QL-10, QL-7, and F6. I can't re-create where I got this from.

If I am wrong about the TT71, I would like to see something from JVC about it.

I am getting the TT81 with this purchase.

TT101; TT81; TT-71 text from the above link:
    

81/71

Very successful LP drives sold as such in Japan and Germany. In other words : the last two markets really alive with high-fidelity... today !

All tagged with the HMV logo (His Master's Voice) and original components of the Laboratory series, these were either sold as drives or as integrated players, complete with Victor's UA tonearms and CL-P plinths.

The motor of both versions is a high torque 12-pole 24-slot DC-brushless but there is no Double Bi-Directional Servo as in the TT-101 topper.

Precise FG detecting section consists of 180 slots FG yoke with a magnetic disc and an FG circuit board with equivalent 180 printed coils for excellent precision of rotation.
The servo is applied on both positive and negative areas for the TT-81, as in the TT-101, but only on positive for the TT-71.


The TT-81 is a 101 sans Double Bi-Directional Servo and with a simplified pitch control system/display ; the functions and features are nevertheless the same : +/- servo, ±6Hz of 440Hz without switching off quartz-lock switch, soft-touch transport keys and electronic braking with reverse-current circuit.
The strobe is included in the servo loop to avoid AC fluctuations from affecting the actual reading.

The TT-71 is an 81 without +/- servo, no pitch control, an even simplified stroboscope circuit and a solenoid-activated braking pad.


Many integrated players were based on these two drives : QL-10 (TT-81), QL-7 (TT-81) or QL-F6 (TT-81 but with Double Bi-Directional Servo added) among others.

As drives or as integrated versions, the TT-81 and TT-71 sold like hotcakes throughout their long 8-year availability.

lewm

you are absolutely right about proper alignment. I have the tools and experience, I will be especially careful and re-check the longer arm setup. Like construction, measure twice, cut once.

I just bought some modern tools, goodbye Shure Sea-Saw tracking force guage, hello digital scale,

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9TRSPC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

hello clear plexi block with 2mm grid,

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07794JXYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

hello new alignment disc (asked sister-in-law to give it to me for Christmas). I like that it is the thickness of an LP. I don't need the strobe on the other side, but, a confirmation, and when I help others ...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PH37HWP/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVTQzSDhOUThNS0EyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjY1MDI1OVdUU0MzS0k5V1ZRJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5OTI2MjcyNTBJWEI0TkkwNzZBJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfaHFwX3NoYXJlZCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

Now I use a 1/8" thick mirror for front view as it 'doubles' any misalignment in the reflection, perhaps I will glue a thin mirror foil onto the alignment disc somewhere.

The older you get, the harder it is to put a shim in one side if needed, and tighten those 2 screws.

lewm,

wrong link, this page for 101/81/71

http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-TT-101.html

lewm

my source of 101/81/71 info. did I read it wrong, or are they wrong/

http://www.thevintageknob.org/VICTOR/TT101/TT101.html

I wish we could edit posts like other forums

this page says ONLY 101 HAS Double Bi-Directional Servo.

Says both 81 AND 71 DO NOT

http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-TT-81.html

totem395,

you are correct, this is the proper link for TT81 and TT71,

http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-TT-81.html

the TT101 page

http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-TT-101.html

there are specific differences between 101, 81, and 71, which, after it gets going, or method of braking, really doesn't effect playing. the oil/spring/damping solutions seem to vary a spec also.
..........................
as for the pre-packaged units, I gather:

QL-10 and QL-F6 both had the TT101 motor, the QL-7 had the TT71 motor. Some mention of QL-F6 also having ....
deck construction of those ......

QL-F6

http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-QL-F6.html

i'm glad lewm and others led me to finding more about these.

chakster

you have a lot of beautiful toys, congrats, and thanks for the help.

If the arm is a disaster, and I like the TT81 (and two arm wide deck/dust cover), perhaps two new arms.

60 day return, so cost of postage back is the extent of risk at the moment.

noromance

thanks for your help.

as far as anti-skating, I find it to be a vital component of alignment/imaging/successful involvement.

The UA-7082 arm is effective 282mm, 11-1/8", so the arc and skate is different than a true 12".

After verifying stylus tracking weight (1.25g now), I match the arm's toy anti-skate indicator to start, then listen, test records, use McIntosh MODE switch to move things side to side, walking back and forth as it is manual thus not the listening position. Then I have my Chase RLC-1 Remote Line Controller with it's Remote Balance from listening position to help refine anti-skate. It's worth the careful work.

Then, for imbalanced engineering of occasional LPs, I use the Chase for active balance adjustment from the listening position. I have found a slight balance adjustment can make a very large difference, things just 'open up', various players now located/heard, now that specific track becomes more involving.

I find this LP is a big help refining anti-aliasing listening. Have the CD, listen for imaging of the 3 players, then the LP. Note: they don't all 3 play on every track, gotta read the notes for each track.

https://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Trio-Paco-Meola-McLaughlin/dp/B07DQ32189/ref=tmm_vnl_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Thanks, Like a camera purchase, I'm basking in the glow of decision. 

It's better beat my cheapo Audio Technica AT120 with Shure 97xe which I get very involving results from.

voltage block?

I'll be taking it apart,, that's for sure, see if any mice lurk within, and, below where I will be putting the 9" arm eventually.

I will let everyone know for sure about any internal voltage change block. I probably will order the small 100w 100v wall wart, have it ready, keep or return if not needed, or if it hums/makes something else hum.

........................

anti-skate - long arm

I get the point about long arm/less anti-skating, but whatever arm I use, I will check and get it floating properly, even if it needs just a speck!

Free shipping, it won't be here until 1st or 2nd week of Jan.

I'll take photos of the mice within, how do I post them here?

I've been reading about using faucet washers or O rings to repair the counterweight sagging rubber. I'll figure something out.

What do you think of $350. for an UA-7045 arm (probably also sagging rubber).

Hi Everyone.

I cancelled the purchase amicably. That deck, and arm was not in great shape.

I’ve got my eye on one in Canada, the counterweight rubber was just restored, everything looks in better shape. See the last 2 photos he added

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649553719-victor-jvc-tt-81-direct-drive-quartz-lock-turntable-with-long-victor-ua-7082-tonearm/

That 2 arm base is HUGE. 565mm w x 508mm d x 202mm h. (22-1/4w x 20d x 8h).

Once I realized how big, I have to rethink where it and other equipment will go, probably need to spend money to solve all that, .....
........................

Question:

IF I go for a TT81 with single long 7082 arm, does the smaller base have the same layered construction as the big CL-P2 base? The CL-P2, on some, looking closely, you can see the layers on the front edge, the smaller base, no layers are revealed, perhaps covered by veneer. Confusing.

I am so behind on Christmas,

The rubber for counterweight isolation is a great idea, however, it does break down, I had to restore the rubber in my SME 3009.

OK, I bought the one from Canada, total with all fees, delivered ... $1,104. usd. He repaired the tonearm rubber, see last photos, sure glad I learned about that here.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649553719-victor-jvc-tt-81-direct-drive-quartz-lock-turntable-with-long-victor-ua-7082-tonearm/

It has original Headshell and Cartridge: Victor Z1s, not sure what Stylus is in it. And includes voltage converter.

I’ve got some carpentry to do here to fit the monster.

Thanks everyone for all the help, it made a big difference in my success.

Happy Holidays, Elliott

Well, the guy in Canada has not responded to my offer. After he fixed the tonearm, he raised the price +$100, to $1,200. Canadian. ($912. USD).

I'll let you know of course.

Elliott

uberwaltz

As far as I could find, there are only two available in the world, the one I bought and luckily got out of in Japan, and this one. Whew!

For options, I found and bought the optional extra counterweight, fits either 7082 or 7045

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193237660632

OK, now I’m looking for a UA-7045 arm to use with a Mono Cartridge.

found these pics of it

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649253288-vintage-victor-jvc-ua-7045-tonearm/images/1151919/

only found two in Japan with Sagging counterweights, $350. - $400.

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=ua+7045

here's a 9" arm option, maybe $500. usd delivered.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649548072-victor-tt-61-quality-direct-drive-turntable/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email 

complete dual arm deck, (looks cleaner than the one I just bought), with a tt61, and a 

Pioneer Tonearm ....... anyone know anything about it?

mijostyn

thanks for your advice Mike.

Today I rearranged equip, it will fit in better than I feared. Measured twice, cut once, I will be ready before it comes. He will ship from Canada after new years.

uberwaltz

At first glance, .... but, the weight is all the way forward.

I wrote the seller a few days ago, he moved the counterweight back as I asked him to do, and it sags more he said.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-JVC-UA-7045-Tone-arm-In-Excellent-Condition-From-Japan/333297491542?hash=item4d9a141e56:g:v60AAOSwYUZdVQT9

Now I need a 9" arm for a mono cartridge. I assumed I would get UA-7045 to go with mt UA-7082.

two 7045 on ebay, both sagging counterweight, around $400. delivered.

What do we think about UA-77, about $350. delivered. No rubber issue?

https://www.ebay.com/i/352753675249?campaign-id=90001&run-date=20191224091500&templateId=c9bb7c1b-7d13-47db-a41b-43e64b1b36cc&templateVersion=133&co=11&placement-type=mfe.piyiP&user-id=44707615456&instance=1577204100&site-id=0&trackingCode=32TE75001_T_AGM_CT1_ORM&placement-type-name=mfe.piyiP&mfe-Id=100690

well, compatibility with high output mono cartridge is the draw, IF it's a decent arm. I don't need VTA on the fly for the short momo arm..

that base's wood is not sun bleached like the one I bought which I will re-finish. Perhaps I paint one Red!

and, what about this Pioneer Tonearm? 

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649548072-victor-tt-61-quality-direct-drive-turntable/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email 

mijostyn

while tempting, I am not going for the tt with tt61 and pioneer arm. I'm gonna get the stereo 7082 arm and cartridge/stylus resonled first.

Then measure the distance: spindle to the rear hole of the tt I bought when it gets here. 7045 arm is effective 9-5/8".

Mono Cartridge: Depending on chosen arm, I might buy the Ortofon 2 M SE with Shibata Stylus, output 3mV, but, I prefer the higher output 5.0 mV of the Grado ME+ (only comes elliptical).

lewm,

I'm handy, I could fix the rubber of any 7045 I buy. Does the flexibility of the rubber make much difference?

Being careful, before choosing the rear arm for Mono,

I will wait to see the exact location of the existing rear hole on the dual arm tt I bought.

We don't know what arm it was drilled for.

UA-7045 is effective 9-5/8"

I am warming up to the Grado ME+ Mono Cartridge, waiting for Grado to tell me the compliance. It's elliptical, not Shibata like the Ortofon, but the Grado internals sound advantageous, and help suppress Resonance.

DUAL ARM TT Bought

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649553719-victor-jvc-tt-81-direct-drive-quartz-lock-turntable-with-long-victor-ua-7082-tonearm/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email
................................

Main longer arm, 7082 11-1/8" effective length.

Stereo Only. use it's Z1s cartridge, upgrade Stylus to SAS/Boron.

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/dt-z1s-sas-b/  (made by Victor Nivico)

light 1.5g tracking, J1 cartridge is high 5 mV output
........................................

Rear, to be purchased +/- 9" arm (not get a UA-7045)

Stereo and Mono use

select an arm specifically for medium/high compliance STEREO cartridge
and a medium/high compliance MONO cartridge.

That way I can continue to use both my Shures: 97xe elliptical and V15VxMR microline. Both light tracking, high output, use or not use Dynamic Stabilizer Brush (brush also grabs dust, reduces static). Both light tracking/high output

97xe: get an SAS/Boron Stylus from Jico

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/n97xe-sas-b/  (made by Shure).


V15VmxMR: get SAS/Boron from Jico

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/vn5xmr-hg-sas-b/  (made by Shure).
................................

Rear +/- 9" medium/high compliance arm
(need to wait till I can measure the distance of the tt's existing rear hole).

suggestions ________???
................................................

Seller says he is shipping my TT monday from Canada. I re-arranged everything, made a big improvement in stability I was putting off, ordered a tempered glass shelf for the monster.

I'll definitely be testing my existing cartridges in the 7082 arm with the Shure V15 torture LP with resonance test bands, as well as the Victor ZS1 that is already in it.

MICROSCOPE.

Final, repeat, FINAL part of this step up is to get a Microscope to really see Stylus.

What power is enough? Too much is too shallow focus depth I believe.

I see units that clamp on cell phone cameras, ...?

USB to computer?

Disaster

Dual Arm TT with tt81 and UA-7082 arm arrived from Canada severely damaged.

Box was a mess outside, clearly had been dropped. I had driver note box condition, opened it.

3 legs snapped off base, those plastic legs broken into pieces, two big gouges in top edges of wood base, dust cover corner snapped off. Arm, cartridge, din cable, transformer all ok.

Took damage photos, called UPS 20 minutes after it got here.

UPS picks it up today, does local damage inspection within 2 days, then UPS contacts the seller to process a damage claim.

It was properly packed IMO, but it had a serious fall somehow.

Got my eye on 2 others, but, need refund!!!

meanwhile, I just bought this one (also from Canada. He assures me it will arrive unharmed).

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649579421-victor-jvc-tt-81-high-quality-quartz-lock-turntable-with-fidelity-research-tonearm-reduced/

It has 9" Fidelity Research Arm on the side, and a rear hole, presumably for 9", which is where I will put the Lustre GST-801 arm that arrived in wonderful condition.

Exact distance? I'll deal with it.

refund: it was found on canuckaudiomart, not eBay.

1st, $1,000. insurance from UPS. Then try PayPal for the $104. not covered by insurance. If the money goes to seller, and he refunds me via PayPal, then PayPal might refund me $46. it charged me to send the money. Then, perhaps my Credit Card linked to PayPal will kick in something. I could end up making money.

member 'Oracle' Preference: Tonearm Effective Length 12-3/16" (308mm)

found a very interesting old post about TT,

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=58779&hilit=ar+arm+rega+conversion&sid=38d8985ef898716a0a955d54dcf969f0&start=120

.................................

pg 9, from member 'Oracle' about the preference for Total Effective 308mm (12-3/16") Arms

Re: Some Thoughts on Turntable Design

• Quote

Post by Oracle_309 » 18 Jun 2013 15:53

"My thoughts:

first thanks to jraudio for his comments. In many ways I couldn’t agree more. Of course in some ways I may disagree, but those are due to personal experiences outside of the normal "audiophile" experience ;)

Regarding the subject of wow and flutter, it has been suggested that the eccentricity or improper location of the spindle hole of a record effects the total W&F more than most motor drive systems (that is, the centre hole location of a record in regard to the grooves of the record). To me this makes sense, but as I do not have the technology available to actually measure this I cannot confirm nor deny this.

Regarding the comparisons of different length tonearms from the same manufacturer, jraudio’s approach is right on (at least in my mind). There is a difference to the effective tonearm mass and that difference can have a profound effect on the calculated resonant frequency. Adding dampening is a stop-gap solution at best. Was it Einstein or Feynman who suggested that (usually) the easiest solution is most likely to provide the best solution to a problem? Ideally NO dampening should be used, so material selection for tonearm construction must consider dampening and rigidity properties. Differing geometries of tubing can also have a profound effect (such as single or double butted tubing, tapered tubing, solid beam or shaft, I-beam, etc.) on both of these qualities.

The cartridge/tonearm (materials and bearing), internal wiring, electrical connectors, physical coupling of the stylus to the cartridge body (whether direct as used in most moving coils, or indirectly as used in any customer replaceable stylus types), physical coupling of the tonearm mount to the plinth or sub-chassis (dependant on whether or not the turntable has a suspension or not) and phono pre-amplifier must be considered as a system, not as isolated parts. This is one of the reasons some people end up with something that simply sounds way better than it should (particularly if the complete system is somewhat "budget" or even terribly price matched. Please remember that it is not the amount of money being spent as an indicator of suitability but performance, this cannot be overstated) or conversely. I’ve heard many expensive turntables (for that matter many expensive complete systems) that have failed to thrill, while many much less expensive systems shine.

I make simple (but I think well performing) tonearms (but not commercially) and can attest to differences in the sound of different lengths, but I choose to make tonearms in the 308mm effective length. My reasoning is pretty simple. Here’s a list:

• proper alignment, or rather finer adjustments to the offset angle are easier to perform
• my material of choice has an effective mass of approximately 12 grams in this length
• my material of choice is incredibly stiff
• my material of choice is a simple, non tapered tube
• I use Grado cartridges almost exclusively (whether you like them or not is not the concern here, but most modern ones have a mass of 4.5 grams and a compliance in the 15-20 x10-6cm/Dyne range). The match of 17 grams effective weight (including headshell, wiring and cartridge screws), a compliance of 15-20 x10-6cm/Dyne and the 4.5 gram cartridge mass results in a resonant frequency of approximately 8-9 Hz

I have considerable opinions (again not verified by measurement but by purely subjective experiences) regarding the design of suspension systems, drive systems and the use of plinth materials. Just a preview: I do have a preference for all of the above, but this is not to say that there are not excellent examples that are contrary to my preferences."

linked to user name

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/gallery/image/24663?sid=38d8985ef898716a0a955d54dcf969f0

Oh Boy, I did it, Black Bird from Russia,

longest 12":, actually effective 12.5", 317mm.

Wonderful, but not easy, my comments here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/12-1-2-arm-newartvinyl-black-bird-yea-or-nay

Long arm quest led to large plinth, let to 2 arms, led to both mono arm/cartridge and stereo arm/cartridge ready and waiting,

Thanks again to everyone's help, I couldn't be happier!

Elliott