Bob and Jack
I am another anxious to hear your impressions. I never heard my SA-14 in it's stock form. I was so ready, after emailing Paul at TRL several times, that i sent my unit to them directly. I know that I love what I hear. :-) I really hope that you two find the sound as appealing as I.
BTW - This is one of the most enjoyable threads on Agon. Way to go gang!
paul |
La45: Hey Cuz, how have you been? Glad to hear that you're going the SA-14 route. :)
Jack |
Hi Bob,
Make sure you get back to this thread with your impressions. I hope to have my unit soon also.
Jack-
This is a nice thread. Good information sharing without the big egoes.
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TRL should receive my unit today. That should mean that I will have the modified player back by late next week. I can't wait to hear the differences after spending 2 weeks with the stock SA-14. Bob |
It is nice that this thread has been allowed to stay on course. In this regard, I applaude the A'Gon moderators for not allowing this thread to be taken over as the Esoteric DV-50S was. :)
Thanks!
Jack Seaton |
Good point about the TRL modded units will subsequently reveal changes you make in your system regarding tweaks or downstream changes quite easily.
I am guessing that mods from most high end shops do this this to some extent. TRL certainly places a premium on detail and reducing noise floor in all of their mods.
It is amazing how much noise is present in most units and amps and we don't realize it until it is removed.
Enjoy the music!
|
Great thread. Still on topic after all this time. Just want to say my TRL SA-8260 really likes to be isolated from vibration. I personally use mapleshade cones into a maple rack with heavyhats on top. I mention this because its a cheap tweek and the TRL mod takes these players to a level where such things are "noticeably audioable"(are those words?). |
LKdog,thanks for that explanation. Bob |
Baranyi-
According to the way I understand Paul's explanation to me-500 hours total of playing time on either CD or SACD (not each) since it is a used unit.
If it was a brand new unit, the he does suggest making sure to break in both with some SACD and CD play. |
I am sending off my SA-14 today to TRL. Even in its stock form the SA-14 blew away my Rotel 1072. It was hard to let go of even stock. I can't wait to hear it with TRL's mods. Did I read it right that it needs 500 hours break-in for both CD and SACD? Bob |
Lets not forget some of the recordings Paul has been involved in. I hope to hear them soon.
|
I've had my modded SA-11 for 4 days now. It's a beautifully built player -- that's for sure. I've got about 75 hours on it. So far I'm very, very pleased. Certinaly a steal for the $$$.
I suppose the only players I'd consider "trading up" for are the DCS one box and the EMM Labs combo, but certainly not before an audition to compare them against the Marantz.
Incidentally, Paul provides excellent, responsive customer service.
I highly recommended the player and TRL. |
FYI, they have done well over 600 mods on various units in the last year. Whatever you have, they probably have seen it or are familiar with it.
Nice guys and great work. |
Thank you Lkdog for your assistance. I did not know they were involved in so many things. Valence |
Valence- Here is their website link. http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/Specific questions to their email listed are usually answered by Paul Weitzel pretty quickly. They mod most any digital unit or amplifier for a standard fee of $550. Don't ask me why they picked that figure, but most would say it is the deal of the century in audio. Yes, they make $140,000 SOTA tube amps and $30,000 digital reproduction units. They also do audio recording and engineering projects, cables, Record Cleaning products, CD Treatment projects, and medical field digital technology work on a major scale. They have been around for decades and are generally thought of very postively by those in the audio business. They are now making a solid state integrated amp that many people like that is around $5000 I think. I have heard it firsthand and it is quite good. Good luck. |
Interesting thread. Where can one find out more about TRL? I've heard positive remarks about their amplifiers but they're out of my price range. What else have they made? Valence |
Agreed on the 300 hour mark for the sound to really start filling out. Bass does not really kick in until then, but when it does you will be quite pleased. 500 hours easy for full break in.
Have fun! |
Pardales: You said, "Keep in mind that I only have 50 hours on my machine."
Just wait until you get to 500 hours ...
My TRL/SA-14 started to really break in at 300 hours and continued to around 500 hours.
Enjoy the ride,
Jack |
Vertigo: Without a doubt the TRL SA-14 sounds better than the XA777 on redbook CD. The way you described the XA777 is exactly the way I would put it: SACD was wonderful and redbook was a bit dry and could be a little uninvolving (but very accurate and true to the recording). SACD on the TRL is at least as good and probably better than the Sony. Keep in mind that I only have 50 hours on my machine.
|
Pardales-
Chatted with Paul about the break in issue to verify what we talked about months ago.
The answer is yes and no (:>
If the machine was brand new, then more yes as you have to break in both SACD and CD for a period of time.
If the unit was already used, then the DAC needs minimal re-break in and the unit break in overall can be done with either or both.
I think I got this right (:> |
Looking forward to getting a TRL Esoteric P-70 D-70 combo! |
Hey pardales! So you got your unit and are in the process of breaking it in! Looking forward to hearing your opinions on how it compares to the xa777es. Please do let me know. Please let me know if the differences were dramatic or subtle and which you liked more. I am considering the modded sa 14. I hope you will still remember how the xa777es sounded as to still be able to make an informative comparison. That shouldn't be a problem as you used to own one. I think the sony xa777es is a really good machine. I havent owned alot of hi end cd players (I once owned a marantz cd 17)but i have to say the sony is the best i've owned so far. I find it to be a very honest player. It tells you what's there and doesn't sugar coat the original studio recording. Things come through very neutral. Judging it in comparison to reference or world class players (and to be honest , I havent heard any of them but can imagine)I would guess and I realize I'm only guessing but I would say that it is probably a bit cold and a bit harsh. "A bit cold and a bit harsh" relatively speaking, in comparison to the ultra high end cdp's.
Anyways...Happy listening.
Vertigo...
. |
M3pilot
I believe that there are 2 seperate circuits, SACD and CD, which need to be broken in. I'm surely not an electrical engineer, so any questions beyond that should be directed to the guys at TRL.
hope this helps |
"I believe I asked that very question to either Paul or Brian, can't remember which at this point, and the answer was yes."
Hmmm . . . curious. |
Thank you for the welcome Hchi.
I'm replacing a Cary 303/200 which was ok but its highish output didn't agree with my Pathos Classic 1 mk2 integrated. Rounding out the rest of my rig are Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors, Harmonic Technology Pro Silway III balanced interconnects and HT Pro9+ speaker wires.
Pardales, I specifically asked Paul that question (because I think someone else mentioned it here earlier) and he told me that there was no separate break-in for CD and Redbook.
As of last night, it was sounding quite good with only a handful of hours. Lots of detail . . . not in a tiresome way but more like a "you-are-there" sense. |
Breaking the cycle is a good idea. That is how I am breaking in my TRL modded DAC. I usually run it 48 hours, then shut it down a day, then start the cycle over again. It should take about a month to fully break in this way. |
Pardales
"Do I still need to break in CD and SACD seperately"
I believe I asked that very question to either Paul or Brian, can't remember which at this point, and the answer was yes. What ever you do - you'll enjoy it.
best.
Paul |
Pardales-
I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
I didn't and have not noticed any change in SACD since my break in period.
A lot of the break in has to do with common parts modded or replaced I think, but no one knows the specifics except TRL.
A technique I like is to run for several hours (24-48) and shut down for a few hours or overnight and start again.
Enjoy the player. It is pretty special. |
Received my TRl SA-14 v2 yesterday. Let the break-in begin. I bought the unit used before I had it sent to TRL, so the unit as a whole is broken in. Do I still need to break in CD and SACD seperately post mod? Thanks, |
M3Pilot,
Welcome to the group. Please keep us posted about the progress of TRL SA11S1 break-in. Which player(s) does SA11S1 replace? |
"I tried to find out where things are with the SA-11 mod but the thread was expunged."
My TRL SA11S1 is arriving today. From my conversations with Paul, I'm thinking it's one of his first. Anyone else out there with one?
I've not heard the SA-14 but can post impressions if anyone is interested. |
Sbayne, I posted comments about 5-6 weeks ago on how various PCs sounded with my TRL SA14. While the specific results may be different in your system, the TRL SA14 really shows the difference among power cords. |
Jsala - I'm using a ZCable Red Lightning with an Ultra ZSleeve. I will check out the VenHaus Airsine. |
Sbayne, what power cord are you using? If you've got the CRL silver series then based on my testing a VenHaus Airsine will provide a slightly more relaxed and organizc sound (all things being equal). |
"Your the greatest" as Jackie Gleason would state in his unique profound manner. Jack Seaton falls into this category hands down. My understanding is his level of expertise far outruns those professionals who claim to have the ears of a bat. His equipment, sound reproduction and network within the industry is second to none. Keep up the tremendous lines of communications. I tried to find out where things are with the SA-11 mod but the thread was expunged. Yes, Jack I am the old owner of Jerry's TRL phono stage and the new owner of the battery operated unit. Be well and keep fighting the good fight. |
Update on my TRL Marantz SA-8260. The sound hasn't changed in the last month so I think its fully broken-in. I have some where around 650 hours on the mod. It still sounds a little "hyped" in the midrange/treble areas. Its not bright or forward it just isn't relaxed and coherent like I have heard in other players. But letÂ’s put it in perspective. A new SA-8260 modded by TRL is about $1,500 depending on how much you pay for the player. If you buy a used player and have it modded the cost goes down to about $1,000 total. So the question is how does the TRL SA-8260 match-up in its price range? - IMHO nothing can touch it. The best SACD player I've heard is the Sony SCD-1 which is still about $2,000 used and the TRL SA-8260 easily beats it.(Please no flames. I readily admit this is based on memory after having a SCD-1 in my system for only a few days over a year ago) I have not heard a TRL SA-14 but I assume that will be my next purchase based on what others have said in this thread. Thanks again to all who sent private emails concerning the progress of my player. |
TRL Family & friends-
First off I love my Sony TRL 2000es player.
My persuit of the Marantz SA-14 V2 stems from my listening to the Marantz SA-1 player at my friends place. Its a great machine!! No I did not compare it to my TRL 2000es but what I heard made it very clear to me where the strengths of the expensive Marantz is compared to the modestly priced Sony player. It had more body, air and defined bass.
Folks I must say in defense of the TRL Sony 2000es, the player is no slouch. It overachieves in areas that expensive players fail. It has terric tonal balance. Above average bass performance considering the modest power supply and its very tunable and responsive to isolation and power cords. Its more defined in characterless fashion than some players. It reproduces music in a convincing fashion when you have it dialed in properly.
No complaints just a yearning to satisfy my growing appetite for better music and in my opinion the SA-14 will soon be my reference.
Cheers
|
TRL told me the v1 and v2 sounded the same after mods. For me the v1 worked great since it was cheaper to buy plus black blends in better with my other gear. |
La45-
I know you are just teasing :) We all know the the TRL Sony 2000ES is an elite player also.
I know of a very experienced audio industry guy who sold his $4000 modded Denon from another well known modder and now owns the TRL 2000ES(Actually two of them now).
I would check with Paul or Brian, but unless you want the champagne color (which is awesome) I don't think there is a significant difference between v1 and v2 SA14 modded.
Could be wrong. |
La45
If you are hearing what makes you happy stay with it. I'm sure the 2000es is an excellent machine.
Two questions for you:
1. Why are you looking for the v2 Sa-14? Is it for the color? (It is beautiful.) From what I understand - After mods, there is no sonic difference between the v1 and the v2.
Also - Who told you that the SA-14 should be a reference? Just curious. Thanks, and best of luck.
paul |
Jes45 and Family,
You guys are just killing me! My TRL Sony 2000es is sitting here playing great music and all I can hear is how great the Marantz TRL SA-14 is. Furthermore, I was told that the TRL SA-14 is so superior to what I presently listen to it should be a reference.
What did I do to deserve this? I am now searching for a TRL or unmodded SA-14 v2 Marantz. I hate being left behind like this.
Cheers
|
Jay: Good to hear. You'll be pleased with the update. Ask Oldpet, it is night and day. I've tried bybees in the past. They didn't stay long ... Great to hear from you again. Tony, aka dog: Sorry I left you out above. Sounds like you're just enjoying the music ... that's what it is all about. Howard: I have tried Roller blocks, and Stillpoints under my 14, but prefer the Wagner A/V mounting pad. The Mapleshade Isoblocks are nothing more than the "Wagner AV Mounting Pad", available at any Heating/Ventilation/Air Conditioning contractor supply house. Heating contractors use them under underneathe heating and cooling systems. Check your yellow pages. Pierre (Mapleshade) claims that they are his proprietary design, "I evolved the IsoBlock specifically for our maple platforms" (LOL). http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/isoblocks.phpAnyway, they have worked best under my 14, in my system. I've said this before: Isolation devices can be used to tune a system to help system integration. For example, some systems may need a little more tightness in the mids and highs. The Stillpoints may be a good choice for this application. I've even used a combination of various isolation devices in my past, like using the HRS Nimbus didsc/pucks underneathe Stillpoints to tone down the Stillpoints. Experiment. Have fun. See what works best for your system. Once you have the 14, drop me an e-mail and tell me what you hear. I have many of the countless isolation devices out there and know the 'sound' of each one. I'd be happy to suggest which isolation device might suit your needs. Best, Jack Seaton jack_seaton@yahoo.com |
Hi Jack. I'll definitely get it done. I am really amazed at how revealing the TRL SA14 is. As I said, the bybee filters had a minor impact on the sound before but now with the SA14 the difference is night and day!
Cheers,
- Jay |
Hello all, I've been away for a while, trying to fully understand Audiogon's moderation. You can't keep a big mouth like me away for long ...
Bob: You'll enjoy the TRL/SA-14. It is a very involving player as Paul (Oldpet) stated. You'll find yourself staying up later than you'd planned. :)
Jay: Your player will change dramatically, after you send it back for the free updates. It will be the best $300 (for the shipping) that you've spent in audio. Just ask the guys who had the SA-14 before and after the updates.
Tony (Clio09): Nice to hear a report back from you. It has been a while. You must have been enjoying the music. FYI, it takes the CRL digital cable a while to fully break in ... ah Hell, the same can be said for the TRL mod. Enjoy!
Howard: I hope that you can find a nice, clean SA-14. Bob (Baranyi mentioned, "I do know of another version one in Chicago if anyone is looking". Maybe you 2 should e-mail each other? Good luck ... you deserve it. :)
Lithojoe: Are you the guy that bought Jerry Taylor's TRL phono stage?
Best,
Jack Seaton |
Welcome to all the new owners of the TRL SA14!
It really still brings a smile to my face every time I spin a disk.
As for vibration dampening; I am using isoblock type things that Brian W. recommended. Have not tried others and I simply have 4 of them under the stock feet.
The unit is placed on a very heavy MDF shelf unit on a basement carpet over cement floor.
I should play around with tweaks more, but after I got my speaker placement dialed in decently, I am taking a break on changes right now.
|
I have had my unit modded now for about 6 weeks. Yes without a doubt for now this unit does everything right. Talk about a true reference component,this is it. "At Last" as Etta James would whale, finally the journey is over at last. Kudo's to the master and his team of fine gentlemen. Thanks Paul, and you're the greatest! |
I bought the SA-14 yesterday and even stock it trounced the Rotel 1072. There was just so much more music there. I plan to use the stock unit over the weekend and then send it in to TRL early next week. Thanks for the support guys! Bob |
As you guys recall I posted my impressions of how different power cords sounded with my TRL SA14 and on my preamp.
Here's an update. I did not mention before but I have bybee filters at the analog outputs of my preamp. Before, with the bybee filters, I noticed that the CRL Silver series power cord gave the the TRL SA14 extended highs and deep tight bass but was somewhat bright.
A few days ago I removed the inline bybees.... Funny, I barely heard a difference with or without the bybees before with my old source... but now with the TRL SA14... bass extension became a bit less and a bit less tight and there was a bit lesss treble extension but... the midrange now seemed fuller and more natural and the high end was less bright! All in all, though, a more natural and musical presentation that got me about 70% to where I would ideally want to be. I love it when taking something out of my system does the trick! ;-) Over x'mas I will send the SA14 back to TRL for the "free" upgrade (mine was one of the early SA14s modified and the mod has changed since then), which is supposed to further flesh out the midrange and improve dynamics. With that done then perhaps my system will sound perfect. |
Bob,
By all mean, I am the one got the a TRL DV-9500 that got damaged by FedEx during shipment. I like much of what I heard on TRL 9500. That's why I haunt down an used SA-14 and it will be going to TRL directly for mod. :) I am looking forward to seeing how it will perform in my rig.
For all TRL SA-14 users, which vibration-dampening/draining devices are you using with your player? Due to SA-14's off-center transport design, I assume it would be more prone to (2-D, x-y)horizontal vibration. A couple reports I have read seem to support this theory as well. I suspect Symposium Roller Blocks-like devices should have good impact on SA-14. Comments? |
Bob.
You'll be happy you did. Think about it - If you can get your money back on the mod, and you can resell the Modded unit for what you paid - where will you lose?
What will you gain? A digital player whose sound pulls you in. Whose sound seduces you, and invites you to stay up late, loosing sleep, relistening to your music collection. You'll be smiling - shaking your head thinking 'I can't believe I was so worried about this.'
All this for $1750. AND Another big factor is the way the TRL guys will treat you - like you spent a million dollars with them.
I can't immagine NOT liking the TRL SA-14.
Of course all of this is my OPINION :-)
good luck - be brave - you only live once. :-)
paul |
