jsala, I just can't see any indication of Steve Miling not having a load of clean fun. Is there a particular clinical cymptom which may point at this fact?
Steve appears to be giving a lot of players a valiant try. Which can't be said of most of us, including myself, who is still playing a 1994-vintage EAD combo.
I hope Steve continues to acquire new players and share his impressions. One fine day he may encounter a device which surpasses his enjoyment of the APL 3910 and may so fall hopelessly in love again. . . or he may not and keep faith to APL 3910.
Either way, he appears to be having a vast amount of healthy fun. |
711smilin(Steve)- I was never sure what your big dilemma and torture was about all of this digital stuff. You came to the exact conclusion we all knew you would-APL is the best in your view.
You love the APL stuff and made that clear from the beginning to everyone, and have made that clear in all related threads about any equipment.
Just have a yard sale and dump the rest and enjoy the APL!
Hope things calm down for you and you can just have fun and enjoy the music for awhile.
Jsala-
I heard that TRL really likes one of the Marantz units you mention above. Paul can tell you which one. Certainly there are many units with better stock build quality than the modest 595. What that translates into for sound-they can tell you. |
Steve,
Thanks for the additional comments on the TRL 595. It really does seem like a no-brainer for the price. Paul had briefly mentioned other players that sounded better than the 595 when modded, like the Sony 2000ES and the Marantz SA11/14. Did he mention others to you and how they stack up to each other after mods?
Thanks,
- Jay |
Guidocorona, I can tell you more about the TRL, as it is better than many, many higher priced machines I have owned.
I have not received my Modwright yet, so cannot comment. I also will not compare to the APL, cause there really is no comparison other than to say that everything the TRL does, the APL does Better. That being said, coupled with the fact that my mission is officially over in my search, I will say this is one hellofa GREAT machine, especially for the cheap, and yes, I mean cheap price.
After 500 plus hours break in, the TRL is musical as all get out. By musical, I mean, it produces a well defined soundstage, deep and wide, is not analytical in any way, and does not suffer from digital glare. The TRL produces music, satisfying music. Not the last bit of detail, like the APL, now the last bit holographic dimensionality. The TRL is very user friendly, and really suprised me with it's SACD capabilities. When play Bowies Ziggy Stardust, I hear all guitar strings with vibration, and air. Drums are tight, and cymbals real. Not the last bit in decay, but hey, I will spell out much more expensive machines this is better than IMHO.
The TRL has a easy, friendly, musical quality too it. From top to bottom, it sounds like music. 2 dimensional to me. I like it a lot better than michines like stock Sony XA777ES, Esoteric DV-50, Shanling T200C, to mention just a few. This alone puts the TRL595 as a BEST BUY in my book, and well worth the price of admission.
Good luck in your journey
Steve |
|
Steve, please expand on the subject. How does the TRL differ from your APL 3910 and ModWright?
Assume, just for the purpose of this exercise, that they were identically priced, even though we all know this not to be even faintly the case. |
This is a fun player, it is wonderful on SACD's after more than 500 hours burn in. SACD is where this baby really shines, vinyl like qualities. CD is very very musical. Giant beater, no IMHO. Great value, YES. Fun, yes. Ultra high end NO. |
FYI, Stephaen Harrell's review is now up at 6moons.com
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/trl/595.html |
Has anyone compared the TRL 595 to the modified Music Hall CD25? If so, what were the differences? |
Bump for further impressions from 711smiling and others..... |
Any further updates on this unit? 711? very intrigued by this. |
Thank you Deb for responding. In speaking to Paul he does not seem very enthused about moding other units besides the Sony players. This prompted my query. I was not sure if he was trying to discourage me in sending mine in.
|
TRL modded my DV50s, it made a substantial difference. It's got bottom end that it never had (stock).
Top to bottom the frequency response is way extended. Soundstage is wide now, instead of mono.
The picture is awesome, approaching film. It does take a long time to break-in, I think mine has finally settled down, but even out of the box the change was huge.
I'd highly reccomend that you get yours modded.
BTW, TRL has 3-5 people doing the mods, they pull them off the benches building tube amps. and preamps. to do the mods.
deb |
I understand that TRL has done mods on non-Sony players. If you are one of those people could you elaborate on where Paul does the changes. What I mean does he change the output stage, the clock, or dac? Is it a secret?
The reason is other players are better designed better in my opinion like the Teac DV-50. I am torn between sending my player in or going with the Sony.
Thanks
|
Metralla,
Thanks for the input buddy, this is a fun machine. I am goins to my AMS toggle as soon as I get done thanking you. |
Smilin,
It's a Sony and probably works like most Sony SACD players. Press the Menu button and turn the AMS until the right menu comes up. Select 2-channel (or stereo) and press the AMS button. From then on it should default to starting up in 2 channel. You may have to experiment - there are model differences, but the principle is the same.
Regards, |
711smilin-
The extension on both ends will continue to improve for awhile-be patient. The air is ridiculous when it fully blooms.
I also had to adjust my subwoofer setting at around 300 hours. The bass was literally shaking my house.
Not sure about the SACD settings as I only have one SACD and it is a two channel only.
As for getting stuck on the 3rd disk in repeat mode-maybe it is that disk. I would email Paul if you have any trouble on a regular basis with that. |
Oh,thank heaven for 711. Yeah and I'm smilin at that. As we all know there are quite a few variables in auditioning equipment. So, 711 what player sounds better than your TRL modded Sony I can't stand the carousel baloney? Yeah I had Paul mod a single transport Sony unit and am much happier for it. Can't stand going round and round with the sound. Also 711, what else is in your system? Thanks and best regards |
I have about 250 hours now, and the unit is sounding very musical, and easy to listen too. It does not seem to give the last bit of detail, or bass extension, or body. The soundstage is large, and deep. The instumentation is good, but lacking air. The vocals are real nice, but, lacking in a bit of dimensionality. All in all, a very good sounding player, that is easy on the ears, also, not analytical like a lot of higher cost players I have owned, and heard.
I have a couple issues maybe you can help with, the player defaults to multi channel on SACD, and I have to manually switch to 2-channel. Do you guys know how to set 2channel all the time? Also, when in continious repeat mode, my player gets stuck on the 3rd disc, and just clicks.
Anyway, overall, this is a KILLER player for the $$$, especially being a 5 disk player. More will be reveiled over time.
Smilin |
I think that I have over 500 hours on my TRL 595 and it still is improving.
|
711smilin-Have you asked Paul Weitzel about the break in issue? In an email to me he did mention 500 hours as the span over which improvements continue. |
711smilin-
Dunno about that one.
I did not listen to mine that much the first 150 hours or so, but I did not have that issue really at any time even when I would sneak a listen.
Has an alleged long break in-some say 500+ hours.
I still noticed changes at 350-400 hours.
Have fun! |
Lkdog, they=TRL 595, bad language on my part. |
This harshness is normal for the 2000ES while breaking-in. You need to be patient and give it a good amount of time 24/7. It will pay the wait. BTW, I read about Modwrights mods to this unit and it seems that came out very nice too.
All in all, these units are good buys for anyone seeking for a good modifiable unit at a low cost/investment. It's trully amazing what we can buy this days!!! |
711smilin-
When you say "they" what are you referring to...source, speakers, ??? |
Guys,I have about 100 hours burn in so far, they are getting musical, but I am having a bit of treble harshness. Any suggestions? |
As we are seeing, is truly amazing what can be provided for a modest cost to the end user.
Good luck. |
Lkdog, it is true, for now. It's very sad that Pioneer discontinued the 563a model, but you can always do a little research and find what people have to say about the APL modded version of it. It was $695 total.
Regards,
Alex |
Alex-
We know you do not have a product that costs $700. |
For everyone's information, I will be receiving a TRL modded 775 tomorrow. It is used, so it should already be broken in. I plan on comparing it to an APL modded EMM Labs SACD1000 through a DAC6. I will let everyone know what our impressions are after listening to them both. I also have a stock 775 that we may hook up for yucks as well. |
Lkdog, I am glad you're not offended at all!
I would see your point about my "marketing methods" if I had a current product that costs $700, or if this thread was about the $35K Zanden combo.
Enjoy the 595!
Alex |
Hey Alpha3, Is this Ezra the Rush Monument fan? I did not realize he is using the TRL. What happened to the Benchmark DAC?
|
Alex-
Not offended at all. Just sort of intrigued by your marketing methods. As I said, people will draw their own conclusions.
Good luck in your work. |
Hello guys,
I went by Audioezra house last night to listen to his TRL595.
Audioezra is a Very Nice Guy and a SERIOUS audiophile.
Ezra has a system out this world,,Custom made speakers that are in the $100,000 to 150,000 range. He was running Bryston
amps on the 15inch bass drivers,,,TRL custom amps on the 10in Mid-bass also on the (2) 6.5in mid-range and the Ribbon tweeter. That's 4amps per Speaker.
The sound of the TRL 595 was WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Open and Natural,,,The TRL 595 lets the Music be Music.
I was very impressed with the sound of this Budget player.
I now have Paul of TRL on Speed-dial,,I will be ordering my
TRL Mod very-very-very soon.
Cheers,
Dan
P.S.
The Newer Sony TRL 2000es is suppose to sound as Good or Even better than TRL595. |
Jahaira-
Bienvinedo amigo Jose'-
I agree that it is about the music and let's have fun.
The TRL can communicate music. I think the experience of Paul in doing audio engineering and field recording is a huge asset. He knows what the live music is supposed to sound like.
Works for me.
711smilin-
It's all good.
Have fun trying out your new gear. Would love to get a TRL amp someday. |
There's this chap in Perth who can do wonderful things to the power supply of a single malt... |
Make mine single malt, cask strength please, oh yeah, straight up,in a snifter....HMMM Hmmmm GOOD. Chears Y'all |
Lkdog and other proud TRL595 owners, I am sorry if my previous post offended you! I never "attacked" the TRL 595 and I am sure it is a great value at $700 (as I mentioned before). What I have said is the truth about this machine, and the intension was to clear up some misinformation making possible for non-technical people to understand better about 595. Again, sorry if this sounds like "attacking" to you!
Please be assured that I am not worrying at all about 595 being a competition for any of my products. This is regardless of who modded it and what was done to it.
My sarcastic comment about the "miracle" was due to the fact that one of you here said the TRL 595 is better than Meitner. If you had a bit of technical knowledge and extensive listening experience with EMM Labs (Meitner) products, you'd realize that it is impossible. If you don't have technical knowledge and extensive listening experience; it would be a good idea to A-B Meitner and TRL595 in a truly revealing audio system and hear for your self, then come back here and tell us about it.
Right, I have much better things to do. Otherwise, Id get one of these 595 machines, gather Audiophiles, run A-B test with Meitner and let the people give you the feedback. I am sure that soon or later someone will do it and you will hear about it.
Best!
Alex |
Good enough...so...let have a few drinks and talk about audio now !!!! Cheers... :) |
Lkdog, when I read this "Alex-
As another digital mod professional" I thought you were a modder yourself, my mistake, and I apologize for that. OTOH
my opinions regarding the machines I have owned in the past, compared too each other, and presently own, or am waiting to be shipped are in fact REAL opinions with my ears, in my system. I share the views openly. When you guys say I will not be fair, in judgement on future comparisons, I disagree. If the TRL or the Modwright are better, in any way than ny current reference APL. Your gonna hear about it. Why? Cause I am obsessed with digital, and obsessed with HONESTLY telling what I hear.
When I decided to get the TRL, my goal was to have another top notch machine which is musical, less expensive, and multi disk. My play is to have it available to my daughter, so I do not worry about the more expensive units. If, in fact, it is as great as some of you here are telling me. I will be thrilled to report it, and TT Paul about modding other machines for me. I have already put an order in with paul for a pair of amplifiers. I agree he is a GENIOUS, and admire him him greatly. Remember, this is FUN, and is a journey for MUSIC, which sooths the soul.
Hope I have clarified myself a bit more.
Smilin for today |
Jes45 I read all your post, you seem very impress
with the 595, Good for you,Since you have the Meitner
combo,seriously, how close is it compare to your
Meitner.What speakers do you have, amp, and preamp.
Just by reading the threads, Meitner stuff are good
otherwise Tireguy wont buy it.Honestly I dont have any
intention to offend you, you took it the other way,
Sorry anyway, Enjoy the music. |
Why should anyone think LKDog is a modifier? I read the threads and I can't found anything that may implied it....
About this point...
"1) The TRL unit is going to your daughter and her friends to use for their listening and dancing; and for your "critical" listening you will use the APL."
When I listen to a system and I can tap my feet and dance to it, I enjoy it the most. May be my Latin blood but music should reach your soul and mind. Some time I just want to critically listen to it but when I want to be moved "on body and soul" I dance...
I agree with the poster identification. We should know who is posting and how it contribute to the thread. |
711smilin-
I think you are confused. I am not a modder. Just another music lover in this crazy hobby like the rest of us. My reference to a professional modder was toward Alex of APL as I thought it seemed odd that he would get involved in this discussion in this way-but that is his choice and he has the freedom to say what he wishes in the manner he wishes. People can draw their own conclusions about his comments and the manner in which he makes them.
I do think that it would be a good idea for A-gon to have Vendors/Manufacturers be identified when they post in the discussion forums. As crazy as it gets over there at Audio Asylum-this is a good rule they have.
As far as "putting my money where my mouth is", I am not sure what you mean. I own a TRL 595. I have owned or own other digital gear recently (Pioneer, Sony, Cary, Bel Canto, Echo Audio, Line 6). I certainly have not bought all of the gear recently that you state you have. You are free to spend as much money as you wish experimenting. Wish I could do so also :)
My wife would kill me, though :<
I guess I just question your relative objectivity as you already have publicly stated the following:
1) The TRL unit is going to your daughter and her friends to use for their listening and dancing; and for your "critical" listening you will use the APL.
2) You also then state that APL makes the best digital at any price... "Alex, chill baby, your APL is the BEST digital I have ever heard, anywhere, at and at any price."
You have a right to your opinion and I truly respect that, but at this point based upon your comments it would be difficult for anyone to take your views that seriously.
Have fun trying out the TRL and other gear you have on the way. You might like it, you might not.
I think folks may actually want to consider looking at the professional reviews that are coming soon on the TRL 595. They also may want to look at reviews/comments/comparisions from end users that do not state ahead of time what they already believe is best. I think there will be plenty of comparisions of the TRL with other units and people will figure out what might best work for them.
As for what is "best"- I can only be sure that this will always be debated and that is part of the fun for all of us. I do not think there is a universal "best". People like different presentations of their music.
I do know that Music is one of life's great pleasures and the TRL product has been a revelation in communicating the music for me-but that is just one opinion and we all know the old saying about opinions-everyone has one.
Peace. |
Guys!!! Just a few points:
1- I used 3 CDs and 2 SACds in my Sony SCD-C2000ES while break-in the unit. I don't know any technical information on its design but what Alex said about the way the signal travels makes sence to me.
2- The SCD-C2000ES and 595 are basically the same units with a few differences. Both units are modified by TRL and the 2000ES is supposed to be a bit better.
3- The original message has turned into a dispute and we should stay on track. I don't doubt these units can benefit from any modder's work ( Alex, Dan Wright, Ric S, Paul or anyone else). Most units from many brands do, so we should stay with the TRL which is the one discussed.
4- Sarcasm are out of order. LKDog bring some good details and I appreciate the.
5- After 711Smiling is ready to report on the several units he had /will heard, we should stay calm and look for reports. His opinion will be usefull.
Thanks, |
I couldn't agree more, LK Dog. When the lights are turned on, watch all the cockroaches scramble.
What seems evident to me:
1) 711smilin has no intention of giving the TRL unit a fair shake. That seems very odd to me. What would he have to gain by doing this? Does this seem odd to anyone else? Does it mean ... (although even if he did, why would I consider his opinion over anyone elses?)
2) Alex is extremely concerned about the TRL mod unit. (And he should be). Why any modifier out there would stoop so low as to flame a competitor in the same business on-line is beyond me. Alex's comments remind me of 3 of the 4 roofing contractors that gave us bids on a roof replacement a few years back. Three of them spent the majority of their sales presentation running down the competition. The fourth contractor didn't. Guess who got the job?
3)This has been a thread about the TRL mod, which is the best baragin that I've seen in audio (in my 30 some years in the hobby) at only $550 plus shipping.
4) Jayctoy: I actually had the Meitner DAC6 and modified 1000 in my system. Can you say the same? Really. Have you ever seen one?
5) Jayctoy: Did you know that Weitzel (TRL) used the DAC8 and ADC8 for almost a year for his live DSD recordings? Would you think that a man that actually had the unit and used it for live recordings would know the sound of each unit? (Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you, Jayctoy, the ADC8 and DAC8 are separate units. One is a D to A convertor and the other is a A to D convertor, eight channels each. Can you guess which one is which?)
6) Do a google search, Tube Research Labs has an impeccable reputation. Can this be said for others?
Something just seems a little fishy about this thread now. Why all the hatred? |
Lkdog,
Why talk about me this way? I just tell it, the way I hear it. This is a fun journey for me, and I put my money, where my mouth is, not just words, like you. If in fact the TRL is better, in any way than Alex's mods, I will be HAPPY, Floored, astonished, and in no way would I keep it a secret. I am in this for fun, not profit. I would love to get the best digital for 700 bucks. I would be nutz not too. Only time will tell. BTW, since you are a professional modder, who are you?
Best of luck in your journey. |
Hi Alex: Thank you for the information. I was posting what Paul Weitzel had told me, as I remember it. I'm certain that he advised burning in with a CD only, though I'm sure that using an SACD too will do no harm to the machine. If I get one of his modded machines, I'll follow his advice, since I wouldn't get one of his modded machines unless I thought he knew what he was talking about. Just as, if I got one of your modded machines, I'd follow your advice.
Cheers,
Matthew |
Alex-
As another digital mod professional, I would think you would be above such troll like commentary that this thread is now disintegrating into. I am surprised that you are involving yourself in this end user banter to be honest.
I am sure you have better things to do. No one was attacking you or your work, which by several accounts is excellent.
711smilin also has no intention of coming to any conclusion other than the TRL mod is inadequate and "you da man" Alex, so no worries.
My only question is whether his daughter will let him borrow the TRL. |
Alex, if the 595 will sing better than Meitner,
I will buy 20 of them.If only miracle happen.Bon |
Maxxfell, the 595 is the cheapest possible CD/SACD player as intended by its manufacturer Sony Electronics. It incorporates All-in-one, cost effective Digital Signal Processor which has the Servo, CD and SACD processing built in. Although it is just one processor, it still has COMPETELY different signal paths for CD (PCM) and SACD (DSD) as well as separate output ports for both formats. Also, the DACs used in the 595 have dedicated PCM and DSD ports with separate processing for the formats.
Bottom line: As all other SACD/CD players, 595 require separate burn in with CD and SACD.
Mr. Smilin, it was a good decision to alternate between CD and SACD. Please let us know when the "miracle" happens and the 595 starts "singing" better than Meitner...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
