By the way, why on earth some threads let you edit your last post, and some do not? Any ideas anyone about this particular Agon arkana? |
I just reread the report and I appear to be wrong. There is no indication that the owner of the TRL was absent or present and whether he/she agreed or disagreed with the findings. |
711, I can't wait to hear your comparison of the TRL with your APL and your forthcoming ModWright. |
Steve, please expand on the subject. How does the TRL differ from your APL 3910 and ModWright?
Assume, just for the purpose of this exercise, that they were identically priced, even though we all know this not to be even faintly the case. |
jsala, I just can't see any indication of Steve Miling not having a load of clean fun. Is there a particular clinical cymptom which may point at this fact?
Steve appears to be giving a lot of players a valiant try. Which can't be said of most of us, including myself, who is still playing a 1994-vintage EAD combo.
I hope Steve continues to acquire new players and share his impressions. One fine day he may encounter a device which surpasses his enjoyment of the APL 3910 and may so fall hopelessly in love again. . . or he may not and keep faith to APL 3910.
Either way, he appears to be having a vast amount of healthy fun. |
My apologies JSala, my comments were directed to LKDOG. |
My apologies LKDOG. I was actually wondering if Steve may be possibly suffering of an advanced form of Degenerative Audiophilic Chorea (DAC), which in my view may very well affect most Audiogon inmates, including yours truly of course.
Sometimes erroneously referred to as Audiophilia Nervosa by some British audiophiles and unrepenting tweakers, DAC is an extremely debilitating hereditary condition. It was first identified and discussed in 1989 by a team of European neurologysts, audiophiles and tweaks lead by Gavronsky and Pugnetti of the Pio Istituto Don Gnocchi in Milano.
See: Aloysius Q. Schmaltzenstein Gavronsky, Dr. Luigi Pugnetti et Al. Environmental triggers and sex-linked predisposition in late onset adventitious Audiophilic Chorea (Acta Medica Refutata, vol 35, No. 4, pp. 435 - 459. Appenzell, 1989).
The authors describe DAC as a acute disturbance of the central nervous system, usually having an onset in very early middle age and characterized by involuntary muscular movements, uncontrollable usage of credit cards, increasingly severe and expensive delusions, disastrous lapses of financial common sense, and general progressive cognitive deterioration, accompanied by often mewlings, drewlings and ritualistic genuflection and prostration in front of any gleaming audio component.
DAC attacks the cells of the basal ganglia, clusters of nerve tissue deep within the brain that govern coordination, as well as the cortex, which is expected to govern common sense.
The onset is insidious and inexorably progressive; no treatment is known.
Psychiatric disturbances range from personality changes involving compulsive purchase or modification of audio equipment, in the abscence of which the sufferer experiences apathy and irritability, to manic depressive or schizophreniform episodes when away from one's High-End Audio System for any significant amount of time.
Motor manifestations include flicking movements of the upper extremities, hands reaching uncontrollably to one's back pockets towards any credit cards and compulsive signing of any audio-related sales slips, a lilting gait whenever in front of high-end audio stores, and motor impersistence (inability to sustain a motor act such as tongue protrusion), unless ever-more-frequent and progressively expensive and unjustifiable upgrades to the patient's audio system are applied.
In 1989 the gene responsible for the disease was located by Schmaltzenstein-Gavronsky and Pugnetti; within that gene a small segment of code is, for some reason, copied over and over.
Expert genetic and audio consultant counseling is extremely important, since 50% of the male offspring of an affected parent inherit the gene, which inevitably leads to the disease if the subject is exposed to any high-end system worth of such an appellation.
An autosomic recessive form of the disorder likely also exists, but is very rare, according to the scant epidemiological studies of DAC, as far less females than males are affected. The prognosis is rather bleak. Sufferers invariably end their days divorced, in dept, indigent, increasingly semicatatonic, with a silly grin on their faces, while immersed in a permanent REM state, dreaming of evermore extravagant system upgrades. |
Good question LA45. You should contact Luigi (Gigi) Pugnetti. He may still remember me from grade 8. He truly is a neurologist who has specialized in the application of artificial realities as a rehabilitation tool for the treatment of some real conditions, like MS. Last I checked he was still working at the Don Gnocchi Institute.
Getting in touch with Aloysius Q. Schmaltzenstein Gavronsky for a consultation may be. . . a little more complicated.
Now about my little article on DAC. It's amazing what a little modification of a perfectly good article about Huntinton's Chorea extracted from the Columbia Encyclopedia Online can do!
Guido |
TVAD, are you a lawyer? I can neither confirm nor deny what I do not know. Whenever I discover I have made a mistake in a post, like I did above, I correct it.
LKDOG, what you describe is a typical outcome of acute DAC (Degenerative Audiophilic Dementia) discussed elsewhere on these pages. Look for the study by Dr. Schmaltzenstein on the dreaded DV-50 thread.
Smilin, good to read from you again. Hope your devices will be featured in some upcoming shootouts soon. What will be needed is participants that do not own any of the disputed devices. Perhaps create a true 'blind' testing environment? > |
A shootout comparison of the TRL 595 with the similarly priced APL Pioneer 563 has been posted on AA at:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/209929.html
The findings favor the APL machine. |
Granted the article was apparently authored by the APL owner. It would be interesting if the TRL owner also decided to post his/her own independent findings. |
I concur TVAD that the opinions of both owners would be preferable. I hope the TRL owner will eventually come forth and either corroborate the extant findings, or voice an alternate opinion of the outcome. |
TVAD, I read the report a couple of times. If I interpreted the shootout findings correctly, the TRL owner may be concurring with the author. Unfortunately mine is only an inference, as accurate as anyone's. |
Hey TVAD, no offense taken. Was joking as well. But I still wanted to edit/soften my append post facto, and the darn thread wouldn't let me.
LKDOG: As for shootouts, the only thing worse than a shootout. . . is a missed shootout. It looks like I may arrive in San Francisco on June 19th, 24 hrs after the upcoming RAM/APL Grand Jostle.
Darn it again!
I was hoping I could alleviate my DAC attack, at least temporarely
ALEX: very generous offer. If I qualified I would take you up on the offer. But I've got only an EAD T1000 and EAD D7000 Mk3 combo, vintage 1994. I mean, my CDP is sooo goood can trounce just. . . oh well never mind!
Besides, seriously, you already know the device I am waiting and drooling for. . . |
Any owners of TRL 563 interested in being part of an at-home audition cycle for the APL 595 demo unit that Alex is getting ready, should contact APL's Alex peychev ASAP directly by private eMail at:
mailto:"Alex Peychev"
In general, we should probably avoid posting notes on personal business transactions on these thread pages.
Besides being . . . well, 'personal', they quickly also become a bit difficult to track for your correspondent. . . and Yes, I know, no need to remind me. . . I too am a sinner, my friend TVAD! [chuckles!] |
Right on Gamo, Thanks for the correction. I should never post when I am bone tired, 'cause I make mistakes. |
I can see the ethical difficulty you are having, LKDOG and Jack. If I can summarize your thinking:
The credibility of results favoring APL in Joel Waterman's analysis, is in your view inherently tainted by conflict of interest: prior association of the author with APL has been demonstrated, as well as the author's prior ownership of an APL-modified third party preamplifier. Furthermore, the analysis may not have been initiated by the reviewer, but performed upon APL's request
Let us now make a simple thought experiment: Let us pretend for a moment that Mr. Waterman has favored TRL instead of APL under identical circumstances.
Are you still deeming the results to be inherently tainted by conflict of interest, or are you now praising Joel's keen analitical mind and independent thinking?
In general, should we automatically discount positive findings of any review anytime prior association, prejudicial ownership, or manufacturer initiation is revealed or declared? Or should we cautiously judge a review mostly on its own merits?
Bottom line: isn't the human mind a tricky beast? (Chuckles!) |
Jack, no I do not have an APL device. |
In fairness Steve, I was the one who re-awoke the thread on 06/07 with a pointer to the recent TRL/APL shootout. See:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1108159717&openfrom&122&4#122
The thread had been dorment before that for about 1 month. On the other hand, the current exchange, if a little passionate, is quite informative. |
Very interesting indeed 711. Burying part of the circuitry in epoxy has been used before, at least since the mid '80s. E.g. my Rowland 7M amps's trans-impedance modules are contained in solid blocks of epoxy. I thought that was done only to keep proprietary circuitry away from prying eyes. May there be some sonic benefit to the process?)
If the TRL 595 proved itself superior to other modded players I would likely suggest that "who cares about the color of the cat, provided it kills mice!"
But according at least to you and the admittedly unscientific analysis pointed out in my earlier link, the TRL 595 may be good for its price, while perhaps underperforming other similarly priced devices, such as the APL 563.
While it may be theoretically argued that yours is only a personal opinion, It is certainly a highly qualified one. Besides, isn't the entire business of the high end about opinions?
Keep us posted on your further findings. Thanks, Guido |
On June 15th Joel Waterman posted a somewhat mixed review of the TRL 595 on AA. Please see:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/210574.html |
Thanks jack for the suggestion. I did read your AA post, and now I am scratching my head. I can make the following observation:
A. From a purely ethical point of view, publicating a private communication, presumably received in confidence, is slightly weak.
B. Unless I am incorrect, you waited for the review results to register your discontent with the process. This opens the possibility that if the review had favored TRL instead, you may have chosen to accept it in spite of its foundational shortcomings, as hypothised by my little thought experiment above.
C. Your Faith (*) in TRL is admirable and clearly unwavering.
D. I own no TRL nor APL products, nor I have owned one in the past.
*. From American Heritage Dictionary: "2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. ") |
By the way, I am delighted that interest in TRL is growing. That proofs that the Internet really works as a means of spreading information and fostering business. |
Thank you LKDOG. As I work for a large 80B-per-annum company founded in the late 19th century, which has done quite well before DARPANET, Internet, and all other nets, but then has seen it fit to harness the Internet to maximize its business, I meant my comment in a completely constructive way, without any negative connotation, nor implied derision of TRL, its products, its marketing strategy, its distribution, its services, and its customers. I regret my comment was so ill worded as to be misconstrued.
Of course, I am aware of TRL's production of impressive electronics having prices ranging all the way to the extravagant. Unfortunately I was not aware that I was in the process of discussing their entire production line in these posts. Sorry for my mistake.
Sadly, coming from the rather pragmatic training imparted to me by the kind Jesuit Fathers, more years ago than I care counting, I tend to extend my ability of having Faith, only to very few and rather narrow first principles, none regretably, currently included in any field of technology.
In the world of audio in particular, it has been my experience that past glory does not constitute a valid premise for eternal sound preeminance, through any and all products. To cite just two examples, Rowland and ARC are companies I dearly love, whose products even now I own with pride, that appear however to fall under this category.
Is TRL an exception to this admittedly sad apparent rule? If your faith tells you so, of course, do take due solace in your Truth.
As for myself, because of my admittedly limited world view, I will continue to stumble along, relying on the experiencial, and when my own experience is not feasible, on someone else's, including yours, LKDOG. |
You from Catholic schools as well LKDOG? Isn't this a small world?
We should chat about our old school experiences sometimes offline! Unfortunately not much of it was of a musical nature: the only thing I recall was the music teacher was preaching to everyone that the NASA manned moon program was a fake and a CIA plot to thwart the social progress of the laboring Masses. That was 1969, of course! NO CDPs back then! |
