Thanks lemonhaze you got me looking around and I came across this fascinating "white paper" type article about how we hear. Does a good job explaining a lot of things people have heard but never quite understood why. http://www.townshendaudio.com/PDF/The-world-beyond-20kHz.pdf
Townshend Audio F1 Fractal Speaker Cables
Some months ago Max Townshend posted an article on some research he did into speaker cable design. That article took flack from the usual suspects. I don’t know anywhere near enough EE to weigh in, especially not when I don’t even hold a lot of stock in engineering solutions to audio problems anyway. My view is engineering is fine for cars and bridges, things we understand really well. Audio is not one of those things and so I take a wait and see approach and view even articles like Max’s as stories. Narrative. Nice if the story turns out, but the proof is in the pudding.
This does not mean I don’t find the stories interesting, or take them seriously. We had a guy here recently, flaxxer, who posted the same article.https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cables-no-longer-opinion/post?highlight=flaxxer&postid=2142032#2142032 This is where this becomes one of those stories about how this site can actually be used to learn and grow.
Flaxxer it turns out is a long time audiophile with massive experience with and respect for Max Townshend. So I get in touch and it turns out he knows another guy who had been building high end cables also on the same ribbon design Max pinpointed with his research. I call the guy up and we have a real nice chat. Massive experience, learned a lot.
We also had Anton_stepichev with his Contour System thread.https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-contour-system-directional-wiring-of-audio-parts?highlight=contour%2Bsystem This I found interesting because of one thing he said about wire, that because wire is directional but the strands in stranded wire aren’t going the same direction solid wire always sounds better than stranded. The ribbons in F1 are solid not stranded. Hmmmm….
So, now we have a guy who came to the same conclusion as Max- closely spaced ribbon conductors are best- only he arrives at this same conclusion by a completely different path. Max is engineering by math and physics, literally calculating the optimal spacing from first principles, while Josh is working it out by trial and error and listening, following a fascinating line of reasoning he related to me on the phone.
The speaker cables I have are already pretty good. Synergistic Research Element Copper Tungsten Silver with Active Shielding. But while these were pretty much the best when they were new, they are now some 16 year old technology. As amazingly good as they sound I have seen other stuff that has been even more amazingly good. So my spider senses are tingling. Not in the market for price no object cables that for sure would be better. But if I can do better for something a lot more reasonable? Up my alley.
Anyway, DHL delivered these things last Wednesday. Mine came in a fancy metal case like Porsche Techquipment or something. Maybe I can use the case for records? Inside along with the cables was a ziplock bag I thought would be an Owner’s Manual full of useful information like “not for use underwater” that kind of thing. But no, it was just some nice glossy reviews. And… the cables!
The F1 is a very flexible speaker cable. Because it is a ribbon however it is not equally flexible in all directions. This makes it really nice with cable elevators because the cable bends the direction you want it to go but has a little more stiffness so it doesn’t sag between the elevators. Sweet! At either end, amp or speaker, the pigtails are extremely flexible in all directions. So it winds up being a very flexible and easy cable to connect after all.
Max puts a network at each end to eliminate RFI and help certain amps that might otherwise have instability issues. This is one of those technical areas I hate having to get into. But it is kind of important here to understand. Rather than write a lot about it here though I will link to a hopefully better explanation from one of the reviews. https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/townshend-audio-isolda-edct-speaker-cable-speaker-cable They are talking about Isolde, but it all applies equally well to F1. What I find interesting in all of this is the idea that some amps are designed to be unstable unless presented with a load that electrical engineering seems to show is the preferred load for good sound!
Townshend claims the F1 are not directional. I’ve not swapped ends to say for sure but I have a perfect record spotting directional wire sound and these are either going the right way or there is no right way. They sound right is what I’m saying. None of the directional wire I ever tried- including fuses- ever sounded right unless it was going the right way. Townshend also uses a special “Fractal” process on their copper. Better than the Deep Cryogenic Treatment Max developed, now widely copied, the Fractal treatment remains a closely guarded proprietary secret. This Fractal treatment is one of the main differences between Isolde and F1 cables.
Finally we get to the listening impressions. Well, almost. None of this stuff is ever absolute. Everything is always relative to everything else. The F1 are being compared to no ordinary Synergistic CTS. Mine are using Tesla power modules modified by Michael Spallone with hardwired caps and diodes. These are in turn hardwired into my power conditioner. They are all coated with TC, wrapped in Omega E-Mats, and run off an Audio Consulting isolation transformer. The CTS cables themselves are wrapped end to end in Omega E-Mats and the spades are of course treated with TC.
These are not subtle upgrades! Each and every one of these tweaks individually was a big improvement. All of them together elevated the CTS way beyond the level anyone who has heard them stock would even imagine. They are deeper, wider, blacker, more dynamic and way more natural sounding than when they left Ted’s shop.
So that is what the F1 are up against. Okay, so how do they do? Well, not good enough to blow the tweaked and modded Synergistic out of the water straight out of the box. Within a couple of hours though they were getting pretty close. In terms of tone and truth of timbre they were definitely better. Only thing missing was a bit of depth and sense of natural ease. That was about when it hit me, “This is without TC!”
I know some don’t get that this stuff matters. Too bad. It does. It matters a lot.
One tiny little speck, not even a drop, spread around nice and even on all the spades and back she went. That was all it took. Now it is not even close. Now the F1 are kicking butt. I have to say- and there is admittedly a good deal of guesswork here, but it’s my system and I know it pretty well- I am quite certain that if it was any normal person with any normal set of CTS (or other similar level cables) then it would not be this close, the F1 would be across the board better. Probably even without TC. The F1 are that good.
What am I hearing? It is a little different than between most other cables. When going from one to a better one it almost always comes down to hearing more details, more dynamics, more resolution, etc. While there is definitely an aspect to that here, what strikes me most is what I am not hearing. The more I listen with the F1 the more I get the sense a lot of what we are hearing with other cables is added and not truly revealed.
Now I hasten to add, not giving credence to the idea cables are tone controls. Not saying that at all. But what I think is going on, not only with cables by the way but with everything, the manufacturers try and get it as neutral and low distortion as they can. But at the margins, as they are extracting the last little bit of performance, then value judgments come in. And they always go with what sounds good. Which they should. No one wants to buy what measures good unless it also sounds good. A whole decade of measures good sounds bad amps proves that one. What I think is going on is Max arrived at an engineering solution that simultaneously sounds good AND measures good.
The F1 does not sound sterile, and I would not even say that it sounds neutral. Although the reason I won’t say that is too much gear called neutral is flat, lifeless, uninvolving. F1 are not any of those things. They are more like what I’m hearing with Podiums, natural instruments and voices sound real and involving because their natural harmonic signatures are coming through unimpeded, without embellishment.
Some might not like that, although I can’t imagine why. This is the kind of sound that makes- no, lets- every recording sound good. It doesn’t favor acoustic over electric, winds over brass, percussion over bass, or any of that. It reminds me a lot of when I first heard my Herron, of a lot of instruments suddenly sounding “right”.
Not only the usual classical instruments either. The MoFi 45 of Dire Straits Money For Nothing has a lead guitar that is so biting yet sweetly distorted I would say it cuts but there was no blood so just a love bite I guess. It is searing- but you don’t get burned. Which strikes me as just right.
Last night listening to Tracy Chapman, even Last Night I Heard the Screaming was captivating. (And that is saying something!) The snare attack that starts She’s Got Her Ticket is sharp and dynamic and very, very clearly a drum with body and presence. This record has a lot of excellent low bass on pretty much every track, real interesting bass lines too, and they are all so much clearer now than ever. I could go on with details but probably the highest compliment and most useful to know is this: I find myself wanting to hear the whole side, and flip it over, and go on and on, more than any time in a long time.
This review is with roughly 20 hours on the wire. There is not supposed to be any burn-in but of course it does sound better now than when it first came out of the box. Quite a bit better. But it seems to have settled down now into the long gradual glide path like they all do, where what I am hearing now is pretty much what it will be a month from now- and I can see no point in waiting that long to let you all know about it.
Cheers!
This does not mean I don’t find the stories interesting, or take them seriously. We had a guy here recently, flaxxer, who posted the same article.https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cables-no-longer-opinion/post?highlight=flaxxer&postid=2142032#2142032 This is where this becomes one of those stories about how this site can actually be used to learn and grow.
Flaxxer it turns out is a long time audiophile with massive experience with and respect for Max Townshend. So I get in touch and it turns out he knows another guy who had been building high end cables also on the same ribbon design Max pinpointed with his research. I call the guy up and we have a real nice chat. Massive experience, learned a lot.
We also had Anton_stepichev with his Contour System thread.https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-contour-system-directional-wiring-of-audio-parts?highlight=contour%2Bsystem This I found interesting because of one thing he said about wire, that because wire is directional but the strands in stranded wire aren’t going the same direction solid wire always sounds better than stranded. The ribbons in F1 are solid not stranded. Hmmmm….
So, now we have a guy who came to the same conclusion as Max- closely spaced ribbon conductors are best- only he arrives at this same conclusion by a completely different path. Max is engineering by math and physics, literally calculating the optimal spacing from first principles, while Josh is working it out by trial and error and listening, following a fascinating line of reasoning he related to me on the phone.
The speaker cables I have are already pretty good. Synergistic Research Element Copper Tungsten Silver with Active Shielding. But while these were pretty much the best when they were new, they are now some 16 year old technology. As amazingly good as they sound I have seen other stuff that has been even more amazingly good. So my spider senses are tingling. Not in the market for price no object cables that for sure would be better. But if I can do better for something a lot more reasonable? Up my alley.
Anyway, DHL delivered these things last Wednesday. Mine came in a fancy metal case like Porsche Techquipment or something. Maybe I can use the case for records? Inside along with the cables was a ziplock bag I thought would be an Owner’s Manual full of useful information like “not for use underwater” that kind of thing. But no, it was just some nice glossy reviews. And… the cables!
The F1 is a very flexible speaker cable. Because it is a ribbon however it is not equally flexible in all directions. This makes it really nice with cable elevators because the cable bends the direction you want it to go but has a little more stiffness so it doesn’t sag between the elevators. Sweet! At either end, amp or speaker, the pigtails are extremely flexible in all directions. So it winds up being a very flexible and easy cable to connect after all.
Max puts a network at each end to eliminate RFI and help certain amps that might otherwise have instability issues. This is one of those technical areas I hate having to get into. But it is kind of important here to understand. Rather than write a lot about it here though I will link to a hopefully better explanation from one of the reviews. https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/townshend-audio-isolda-edct-speaker-cable-speaker-cable They are talking about Isolde, but it all applies equally well to F1. What I find interesting in all of this is the idea that some amps are designed to be unstable unless presented with a load that electrical engineering seems to show is the preferred load for good sound!
Townshend claims the F1 are not directional. I’ve not swapped ends to say for sure but I have a perfect record spotting directional wire sound and these are either going the right way or there is no right way. They sound right is what I’m saying. None of the directional wire I ever tried- including fuses- ever sounded right unless it was going the right way. Townshend also uses a special “Fractal” process on their copper. Better than the Deep Cryogenic Treatment Max developed, now widely copied, the Fractal treatment remains a closely guarded proprietary secret. This Fractal treatment is one of the main differences between Isolde and F1 cables.
Finally we get to the listening impressions. Well, almost. None of this stuff is ever absolute. Everything is always relative to everything else. The F1 are being compared to no ordinary Synergistic CTS. Mine are using Tesla power modules modified by Michael Spallone with hardwired caps and diodes. These are in turn hardwired into my power conditioner. They are all coated with TC, wrapped in Omega E-Mats, and run off an Audio Consulting isolation transformer. The CTS cables themselves are wrapped end to end in Omega E-Mats and the spades are of course treated with TC.
These are not subtle upgrades! Each and every one of these tweaks individually was a big improvement. All of them together elevated the CTS way beyond the level anyone who has heard them stock would even imagine. They are deeper, wider, blacker, more dynamic and way more natural sounding than when they left Ted’s shop.
So that is what the F1 are up against. Okay, so how do they do? Well, not good enough to blow the tweaked and modded Synergistic out of the water straight out of the box. Within a couple of hours though they were getting pretty close. In terms of tone and truth of timbre they were definitely better. Only thing missing was a bit of depth and sense of natural ease. That was about when it hit me, “This is without TC!”
I know some don’t get that this stuff matters. Too bad. It does. It matters a lot.
One tiny little speck, not even a drop, spread around nice and even on all the spades and back she went. That was all it took. Now it is not even close. Now the F1 are kicking butt. I have to say- and there is admittedly a good deal of guesswork here, but it’s my system and I know it pretty well- I am quite certain that if it was any normal person with any normal set of CTS (or other similar level cables) then it would not be this close, the F1 would be across the board better. Probably even without TC. The F1 are that good.
What am I hearing? It is a little different than between most other cables. When going from one to a better one it almost always comes down to hearing more details, more dynamics, more resolution, etc. While there is definitely an aspect to that here, what strikes me most is what I am not hearing. The more I listen with the F1 the more I get the sense a lot of what we are hearing with other cables is added and not truly revealed.
Now I hasten to add, not giving credence to the idea cables are tone controls. Not saying that at all. But what I think is going on, not only with cables by the way but with everything, the manufacturers try and get it as neutral and low distortion as they can. But at the margins, as they are extracting the last little bit of performance, then value judgments come in. And they always go with what sounds good. Which they should. No one wants to buy what measures good unless it also sounds good. A whole decade of measures good sounds bad amps proves that one. What I think is going on is Max arrived at an engineering solution that simultaneously sounds good AND measures good.
The F1 does not sound sterile, and I would not even say that it sounds neutral. Although the reason I won’t say that is too much gear called neutral is flat, lifeless, uninvolving. F1 are not any of those things. They are more like what I’m hearing with Podiums, natural instruments and voices sound real and involving because their natural harmonic signatures are coming through unimpeded, without embellishment.
Some might not like that, although I can’t imagine why. This is the kind of sound that makes- no, lets- every recording sound good. It doesn’t favor acoustic over electric, winds over brass, percussion over bass, or any of that. It reminds me a lot of when I first heard my Herron, of a lot of instruments suddenly sounding “right”.
Not only the usual classical instruments either. The MoFi 45 of Dire Straits Money For Nothing has a lead guitar that is so biting yet sweetly distorted I would say it cuts but there was no blood so just a love bite I guess. It is searing- but you don’t get burned. Which strikes me as just right.
Last night listening to Tracy Chapman, even Last Night I Heard the Screaming was captivating. (And that is saying something!) The snare attack that starts She’s Got Her Ticket is sharp and dynamic and very, very clearly a drum with body and presence. This record has a lot of excellent low bass on pretty much every track, real interesting bass lines too, and they are all so much clearer now than ever. I could go on with details but probably the highest compliment and most useful to know is this: I find myself wanting to hear the whole side, and flip it over, and go on and on, more than any time in a long time.
This review is with roughly 20 hours on the wire. There is not supposed to be any burn-in but of course it does sound better now than when it first came out of the box. Quite a bit better. But it seems to have settled down now into the long gradual glide path like they all do, where what I am hearing now is pretty much what it will be a month from now- and I can see no point in waiting that long to let you all know about it.
Cheers!
90 responses Add your response
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This, is getting to be an old thread, so, I just would like to add that I am very impressed with the F1 speaker cables. Hard to believe they beat out my $$$ DIY speaker cables, but they did. I like them so much that I ordered the F1 interconnects. The interconnects however, did not impress me. Way lighter in sound quality than the speaker cables. ozzy |
How are the F1 speaker cables sounding now after some more time has gone by? I am expecting mine to arrive soon. I ordered a 2.5 meter pair and plan on using them on the midrange/tweeter connectors on my 101db efficient field coil 16 ohm speakers. Everything that is being described about the F1 fractal speaker cables are exactly what I hear with my current speaker cables. So, I am very curious to see how they compare. What I am also still wondering is how this RLC network works. |
This "RLC network" isn’t really a "network" but rather an inherent property of engineering design. All cables have resistance, inductance, and capacitance (RLC) as determined by their conductor geometry. What Townshend does is design cables with conductor geometry (shape and spacing) that optimizes impedance matching with speakers. Not an exact match obviously. Given the range of different speaker impedances, not to mention the way impedance varies with frequency, an exact match would be impossible. It is enough to be a lot closer than other cables. Max wrote a technical paper on this. Briefly, what happens is when impedance is mismatched the majority of the load is reflected back from the speaker to the amp. Well it isn’t matched at the amp either so it gets reflected right back again. Only about 1% of the signal is absorbed into the speaker. This process repeats about a thousand times until gradually the full signal is passed. This all happens very vast. It all adds up though, smearing transients and adding harmonic emphasis to certain frequencies. One of the main reasons for there being so much difference between cables, why some think of them as tone controls, etc. Max engineered his conductors with spacing optimized to eliminate these reflections by matching speaker impedance. He wrote a paper explaining all this. It has been out there a lot but still not well understood. But, whatever. It works. I hear the exact same freedom from smearing, resonant coloration, and artificial top end emphasis as one would expect in consideration of the design. In short yes, I still love em!
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Thank you for posting the technical paper. Very good read. I will be interested to see how these compare to my reference Neotech speaker cables. http://wp.neotechcable.com/up-occ-silver-cable/
His paper states that multiple close connectors are close to measured performance to his speaker cables. The question is if this measured difference is audible against other high end cables and in what ways? |
I've been a fan of flat wire/ribbon cabling for years so this is interesting to read. There's something about the geometry that I cannot explain electrically that makes sound just more better😃 with flat wire. I have used DCCA and Verastarr power cables for years and last year added the Silversmith Fideliums. I have had a run with Silversmith SC's prior and really liked their performance. He's slow to design his IC's so still waiting on them. Unfortunate about Mr. Townshend. |
Yes sad to say Max is no longer with us but he left us with a good many designs enough to ensure Townshend Audio goes on for some time to come. The advantages of ribbon cable geometry are described and explained in a paper Max wrote some years ago. Basically, these inherent advantages are so great they have enabled pretty much anyone who uses it to obtain quite good results. People have had great success as simply as using packing tape to insulate between the ribbons. Other professionally made cables use somewhat better materials. Imagine the results when the best materials are combined with precise geometry and electrical engineering. That’s Townshend F1.
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I've read some of what MC posted by downloading it. I'm guessing here, and should confirm with Jeff Smith, the approach to have the conductors separated as the Fideliums are may have been to avoid the inductor solution Townshend used and provide a wide open choice by the user. Just for kicks, I may lay my Fideliums tight to each other and see what I achieve, if anything. My expectations are low based on what the paper states in the data. |
Read it again. Conductor spacing is a single thin layer. You couldn't get his ribbons that closely spaced even if you glued them. The insulation around each one would be at least twice, and probably more like 4x-5x the spacing in F1. Also the shape is much thinner and wider. Finally the material, this is what Jeff thinks it is all about, his special alloy. While Townshend uses their next generation Fractal treatment process. So you may well notice a difference strapping them together. If nothing else it will look a whole lot better. But kind of like ordinary springs are much better than most other stuff- but yet nowhere near as good as an engineered solution like Pods. If you try it, listen for a reduction in the unnatural resonance that adds to the top end. If you can get that down a little it will help bring the bass up in balance and maybe be an improvement. |
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Right.🤣😂😂😂That’s what I’m gonna do.🤣🤣🤣🤣Give away Townshend’s proprietary process to the world’s worst troll. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Hey I got one for ya, ask Ted Denney to tell you how he does his Quantum Tunneling treatment.🤣🤣🤣 Ask Koetsu how they wind their wire. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I got one, why don’t you ask Peter Ledermann what strain gauge sensors he uses, and while you’re at it let’s have the Strain Gauge preamp circuit drawings. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 The truly hilarious part, you actually think this proves something that people who spent their life developing hard-won new technology aren't gonna give it away to everyone who asks. Back to fantasyland Troll, you have used up your one response for the year. Hope you enjoyed it. |
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I read in one of the European reviews that the cables are actually sent to the United States for cryo treatment and then sent back to the UK for finishing. Another review discusses the network: "The two closely spaced, Fractally-treated pure copper strip conductors, which are now insulated with ultra thin PTFE, are encased in synthetic rubber and clamped within a strong, flexible conduit trimmed with woven polyester braid. The ends of the cable are terminated in a metal enclosure containing an RLC network to prevent unstable amplifiers from oscillating, to reduce distortion and to act as an RF filter; i.e., acting as an antenna." I wonder how this cable will work in systems that are more closely matched. As far as the internal network is concerned, there are several ways to address impedance mismatch between amps and speakers. Zobel networks are one way and can be created at the DIY level with some wires and a few resistors. Speltz Autoformers are this DIY concept rolled up into beautiful wood case work with several connections to allow for 4, 8, ohm speakers to be plugged into in order to match amps. Thus, creating a better match without seeing a bunch of wires with a tiny resistor placed between them. The F1’s utilize a very similar concept, however, we do not know the resistor value and to what effect that F1’s will have on already optimally matched speaker/amps where no major impedance mismatch is occurring and no ringing effect as well. That is why I am curious to see how these will perform with my setup, 16 ohm speakers with quad balanced autoformer speaker taps. If I take X (F1’s) and connect to Y (16 ohm speakers), how does a non-variable resistor get to Z (optimum amp/speaker ohm interface). Additionally, what influence will the F1’s have with other speaker cables connected to the same speaker tap (bananas on top/spades on the bottom) when using two different types of speakers cables to bi-wire. Will the F1 network influence the characteristics of the other connected speaker wire? Will this influence with the other cable cause ringing or be detrimental to my sound? If they are touching each other, I would assume yes; however, they will not be touching each other but sharing the same speaker tap and connected differently. This is part of my experimentation / investigation to see how this type of speaker cable works with already optimized amp / speaker interfaces. I guess I am willing to test these F1’s in other than just a speaker pair connection, which I will also do, but to test the limits as well. I am not discounting these by all means, that is why I ordered them, and I am also waiting on shipment going on a month now. I want to know how these work with high impedance speakers, because, mostly, they are advertised as being able to virtually eliminate improper speaker amp ohm mismatch which seems to be mostly 8, 4, and 2 ohm speakers. I don't perceive any issues in the way my system reproducers music. If these work, great, if not, they will go on the wire rack along with Nordost, Audioquest, HMS, and others as backups or for "that other" system. If these can surpass my current reference speaker cables in how I interpret sound reproduction on my system, you will be first to know. I have a thread somewhere where I am doing a test shootout of these and others. These are some of the stand out construction points that the company mentions: 1. Tightly wound to reduce RFI/Hum 2. Cryo treatment 3. Special network 4. PTFE shells These types of things are also being done by other companies in the last few years, and some years ago. It will be interesting to hear how well this is executed overall. More to follow.
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I am not sure if this is relevant to the above discussion, or if different values would be needed, but certain amplifiers (very few) could go into oscillation with Goertz Alpha Core ribbon or flat speaker cables. So, Bridgeport Magnetics, which owns Goertz, sells Zobel Networks. Zobel networks can be purchased directly from Bridgeport Magnetics, the company that owns Goertz Alpha Core, for about $50. You cannot order them online; you need to call to order. Goertz Cables & Audio Equipment | Bridgeport Magnetics I believe you can also still order them from The Cable Company. Not sure though, you will need to call to find out. Search results for: ’goertz’ (thecableco.com) The Zobel networks are short and attach to the + and- speaker connections. They do not impact sound, just stop amp oscillation. See them in blue:
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Always amazes me how something can be explained clearly over and over again and yet not catch on, while at the same time some false notion gets mentioned and takes hold and takes on a life of its own. There is no Zobel network, there is no RLC network, and instability issues are handled with a 1.5 micro Henry inductor. As per the pdf research paper posted above:
So there you have it. No Zobel. No RLC. Just a 1.5 micro Henry inductor.
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“there is no RLC network,” I would tend to agree with you; however, Townshend Audio has allowed this review which I cited above to remain on their website. Not doubting that it is not a Zobel network, but, perhaps RLC, which might be something that Townshend and company are willing to allow as a representation of their technology used or another name for the Henry inductor. Not sure, but, it conflicts with your statement that it is not an RLC when a published reviewer was allowed to make the claim and Townshend audio posted that same review on their own website. I would think that Townshend would send a manufacturer comment to clarify the RLC statement by the reviewer if it was anything different. You know, if it’s on the Internet, has to be true. Just paying attention to details here, and the more information that is being posted; looks like more confusion or misunderstanding may ensue. Bottom line, they either will work or not and sound good or not. If the technology works for some, awesome. My wife’s comment after a few hours of listening today after I told her I was waiting on some cables “you have to be kidding, this sounds incredible, the best I have heard from your system”. I told her, “I am experimenting to test against my reference speaker cables to help others in the audio community who might have similar systems.” She said, “how much can you get for them after your test, LOL”
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einstein,
My bad, in this case the only post I read in this thread was audioquest4life’s above, perhaps he will find the information interesting anyway. But, also in response to your post above, common sense will dictate that if you feel your ideas are "explained clearly over and over again and yet not catch on", the logical explanation is that you are not explaining your ideas as clearly as you think in your own mind.
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jerryg123,
Here it is:
Please let me know what part of that is unclear word salad so I can fix it.
audioquest4life, I have learned over the years that technology is all very well and good, it does help to understand certain things, and every once in a while is even decisive. No matter what though, the proof is in the pudding. With F1 the technology is saying to expect less ringing and resonance, which will show itself in a more natural top end and more individual instrumental timbre and texture. Which sure enough is what I hear. Soon enough we will know if that is what you hear too. |
You swerved my question by quoting some manufacturers verbiage. Can you explain exactly what “ next generation Fractal treatment process “ actually means ??? … As for your claims that no Zobel network is employed I have an old set of Isolda speaker cables and the tool to open the terminal box … I shall take some images for the benefit of the membership |
I trust what you are hearing is true. 😀
That’s one of the reasons why I am enamored by these cables. We have been in this hobby for years and have grown up to build out our systems and learn by experiences and from others. Once you reach that level of nirvana, you know it, and so does your spouse and friends. Which music (band, genre, etc.) did you use to test piano reproduction with your new cables? I have some really good recording with mixed piano and vocals that I will test. In frequent rotation and just played today; James Bond Movie Collection (side F, Sam Smith, and Billie Elish), Jacintha, Here’s to Ben (groove note, 45RPM), AISYAH Pearls (groove note, 45RPM), and MFSL Supertramp Breakfast in America, child of vision song.
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It was my great good fortune when the best dealer and audiophile I ever met took me under his wing and mentored me. This was back in the early 90’s. One thing I had a hard time understanding was the way Stewart could evaluate any component, any system really, with any music and at any volume without even needing to sit in the sweet spot. This was back when I was doing like everyone says, using my little selection of reference tracks, being careful about volume, trying to make everything as static and uniform as possible. Because, how else you gonna do it? That’s what I couldn’t get, how Stewart could do that. And I definitely tested him on it! So a lot of that stuff, I quit doing years ago. We had a party here one time, only about half audiophiles, and Caelin Gabriel (Shunyata) was here and brought some power cords. So with a room full (at least a dozen) of people we did some demos. This would be boring to tears if done the "right" way. Instead I would play the first track or two of a record to give people some idea, then change the power cord and play the rest of the side. Never playing the same thing twice, never even stopping in the middle. Just one song to the next. Far as I could tell everyone heard clear differences, and knew which one they preferred. Everyone. Well, maybe not every audiophile. Today I would say these little rituals are not the big deal we think and are even a bit of a handicap. So no, I don’t have anything I use, not music genre, not instruments, not any of that. Instead I listen to everything. And I like to think I listen for everything as well. I don’t of course. No one does. Probably no one can. But that is the aim. |
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I have come to the conclusion that with any cable that alters, changes, or supposed matches or eliminates capacitance or whatever, is probably akin to applying a fix to correct an existing incompatibility between amps and speakers. Now that being said, I did test the F1s, and while they did sound good out of the box compared to my reference cables, they were not in the same league. By no means do I mean this in a disparaging way either. Additionally, I was concerned about how these cables would work with 16 ohm speakers with powered field coil magnets. Well, after my third test with the cables, one of my amps shut down. Hmmm, out went the Fratcal F1 and back my reference cable and all is good in the world again. I do need to test the F1 to see if there is a short from the several removal and installation testing I did. They do not look fragile so I am not sure. Bottom line, I believe cables like these are simply not just plug and play, especially the more sophisticated your system is or if you own 16 own speakers…hmm, then why would you need to change anything in that regard. This has been my experience based off experimentation thus far. |
I have only had my Fractals F1 Speaker cables in for 5 days but these are by far the best cable I have heard in my system. Next level up from my Previous Audience SX, Cerious Matrix and my former current Silversmith Fideliums. Townshend really makes system changing products The Fractals and podiums will elevate any system to new heights Although the retail prices are high if you engage John at Townshend I bet he can make something work for you .
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I do want to hear these, as the Fractals get a lot of praise. I would be really curious how the EWA LS-80 cables would compare. EWA is designed by Colin Wonfor who was behind Magnan and later Tellurium Q. I have read some of feedback from LS-80 users who replaced their fractals with these, however I imagine the Fractals are fantastic from all the guys on here who’s opinions I trust. |
Website: Each end of the cable, incorporates house-keeping electronics to ensure stable operation with ALL amplifiers and features radio frequency interference reduction circuitry. All contained within a machined solid aluminium capsule, that also works as a transition between the twin-strips and the wire tails. The F1 Fractal speaker cable is non directional and un-equal lengths may be used. It requires no burning-in and is available in lengths of up to 10 metres. House-keeping, I see... |
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