No one needs to say it because it’s so obvious. I have never made a carefully selected tonearm upgrade that wasn’t a huge improvement. This includes going from a Rega arm to a Jelco which was huge and a Jelco to an SME. And 5 more since then. A better arm. properly mated with an appropriate cartridge just sounds better. It’s not complicated. Better usually costs more. In almost everything.
Tonearms: Ripoff?
If you search for tonearm recommendations you'll find an overwhelming amount of praise for $1k and less products. Audiomods and Jelco are the two most mentioned.
The Audiomods is just some guy making Rega-based tonearms in a workshop. Just some guy is putting out tonearms that compete with tonearms that cost many times the price -- from the likes of SME, Clearaudio, VPI, Graham, etc.
So the question is -- are tonearms just a scam? How is it that everyone loves Audiomods and Jelco to death and never talks about / dismisses high end tonearms? Is it because there's no real difference between one of these low-cost tonearms and the high end ones? Is an Audiomods Series V ** really ** the equivalent of a SME V? Some guy in a workshop equals the famed precision of SME? Is that once you have the math and materials worked out all tonearms are essentially the same? Or is it that most owners of record players online are dumpster-diving for vintage gear and simply can't afford to listen to better?
So, what's going on?
The Audiomods is just some guy making Rega-based tonearms in a workshop. Just some guy is putting out tonearms that compete with tonearms that cost many times the price -- from the likes of SME, Clearaudio, VPI, Graham, etc.
So the question is -- are tonearms just a scam? How is it that everyone loves Audiomods and Jelco to death and never talks about / dismisses high end tonearms? Is it because there's no real difference between one of these low-cost tonearms and the high end ones? Is an Audiomods Series V ** really ** the equivalent of a SME V? Some guy in a workshop equals the famed precision of SME? Is that once you have the math and materials worked out all tonearms are essentially the same? Or is it that most owners of record players online are dumpster-diving for vintage gear and simply can't afford to listen to better?
So, what's going on?
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Before we continue to respond to Master Troll madavid0, I suggest we look at the subject lines of his previous posts. Gee, see a pattern here? Tonearms: Ripoff? Job amps: Suck? Schiit not that Good? Isolation stands: snakeoil?t Integrateds: Why do they all SUCK? Mapleshade Isolation: Does Nothing? Cartridges: Complete Scam? Basis Turntables: Worth it or Ripoff? Speakers: Isolation? CD players = dead? Skogrand Cables? Synergestic Research: SCAM Class D = Trash? |
Hi, you pay, you get, it has always been like that and always be. How better depends from the rest of the chain, and your ears. Please also consider reselling prices and there you have the complete picture. On the other hand no bad products exist nowdays, all have a good standard but some animals are created more equal than others. |
I have only used the SME with the Decca and what I've learned is the more weight you add, the better it sounds and tracks. I'm currently using a Fidelity Research FS/3 headshell which is 20gm and I line the sides of the inside of the headshell with the lead tape that is used to add weight to tennis racquets and golf clubs. That allows me to use the extra heavy balancing weight that comes with the SME. Hope this helps! |
@jollytinker I do love your post - just saw it today (yes - 9 months later) Perhaps the OP should pop down to his local plumbers - buy a copper pipe - go get some mains cord - cut out the cable - go to a toy shop and use some marbles for bearings - and hey presto - he can say that's better than: SME V; Breuer; Durand; Basis Vector and Kuzma 4 Point. |
I just went through this entire thread. Originally, my search began to find examples of cartridges that work well with the Reed 2A Cocobolo 12" that I have mounted on my Luxman PD-444. It currently has installed a Lyra Kleos. The primary tonearm is a Triplaner MK VII U2 with a Soundsmith Sussuro MK I. Originally, the Kleos was on the Triplaner and then I wanted to see what the Sussuro would be like on it. What I want to end up with is a mono cartridge on one tonearm and a stereo on the other. The search continues. I too bought the Reed here on AudioGon and I have both the Feikert and SmartTractor alignment tools. |
@jeraldej
I just went through this entire thread. Originally, my search began to find examples of cartridges that work well with the Reed 2A Cocobolo 12" that I have mounted on my Luxman PD-444. Very interesting, did you mount it on original Luxman armboard or on custom made armboard ? I have Reed 3p "12 Cocobolo, but it is not mounted on Luxman. I was thinking about thicker custom made armboard, i have many original LUX armboard too, but they are all have some holes. |
Alright. I'm resurrecting this topic because...I may have been RIPPED OFF. Not by anyone in specific but by being led down a false path re turntable systems and their upgrade paths. My old turntable system: MoFi StudioDeck AT-AC9ML/II Ifi Phono 2 I was really pleased with the dynamics and overall quality of good records. From this experience I went down an upgrade path which lead me to the following: Triangle Art Concerto + upgraded platter (about 3 times thicker). TA Zeus TA speed controller Reed 2A tonearm ($2k used from Audiogon) Hashimoto SUT (from builder on eBay) Chinese all-tube phono stage + common NOS tubes and Herbie tube rings Smartractor for best possible alignment. So, fast forward to several days ago. I noticed that the iPhono 3 Black had been released and was getting super positive reviews. There was a big jump in performance from the 2 matching the doubling of price. So I thought, why not try it out from Amazon I can always return it if needed. So I brought back out the StudioDeck. I was going to use this for phono break-in. This would also be a good opportunity to test my old deck and cart directly against the new and vastly more massive and expensive system. Now, I did set up the StudioDeck in another room and ran a pair of AudioQuest Forests across the room into my preamp (a cheap MBL 610 clone). The StudioDeck would have the advantage of not being in the listening room but I figured that in net the TA setup would still be better. So I listened. First thing I noticed is that dynamics were pretty much EXACTLY the same. The old setup with the iPhono 3 seemed darker and little less detailed, but the experience was more-or-less similar. So basically....did I get savagely RIPPED OFF? In reality if MC design is good and the tables are setup right / run at the right speed are these systems basically all the same? So what's the deal? NONE of you guys realized this, some of you apparently with many years of experience? Is it just the phonos? Is the cheap clone phono the bottleneck? I did put myself in the waiting list for a Don Sachs phono, will that be able to reveal a real upgrade? Will this iPhono 3 be able to show the upgrade after it burns in? Such a small upgrade for such a high cost seems like a flat out scam. Can any of you guys help me understand what's going on? |
First thing I noticed is that dynamics were pretty much EXACTLY the same. The old setup with the iPhono 3 seemed darker and little less detailed, but the experience was more-or-less similar. So basically....did I get savagely RIPPED OFF?I don't think so. Dynamics come from the recording, not the equipment. But its worthy of note that most audiophiles are referring to distortion when they use the word 'dynamics' since higher ordered harmonics are used by the ear to sense sound pressure. IME the mark of a good system is one that does not sound loud even when it is. It just sounds natural. |