Karelfd,
Thanks for your comments. I will certainly listen to them, as long as they are available for audition, as this will be freee. Thailand is listed as a location where they have distribution, and I hope they have stock.
Tbg,
Not sure what planet you're on. Much more expensive speakers? Much more than, what, 40-80K a pair? I know they exist but it's almost scandalous to suggest these prices are reasonable just because some other speakers ask for more. No wonder there are no reviews or marketing for these speakers, since they will only appeal to an absolute tiny fraction of the audiophile market, let alone general population of music lovers. For 80K, I could almost buy my dream car Nissan GTR, or a couple of BMW convertibles.
Mike,
That is great endorsement. If you earn a million+ a year and have no kids to support that would make sense. Otherwise I hope you're not sacrificing beyond sanity for a hobby.
Sorry I'm obviously ticked off as this price is out of reach for now even if I do find them worth it. |
Kw13, sorry but I stick with my comments. Evidently you have not bought speakers recently. It is quite difficult to buy any decent speaker for below $30k and there are many above $100k.
Your being ticked off and $3 will buy a cup of coffee. I can understand both your reaction as well as why the price is high, but I can do nothing about either. |
|
It is quite difficult to buy any decent speaker for below $30k I'm pretty damn sure most folks could find a decent speaker for less than $30K,but what do I know. |
OK Tpreaves, Ask the speaker to appoint distributor why it is this expensive?
I have a friend in Russia distributor who told me that the benefits are enormous.
Done good choice.Enjoy |
Drove down to Tidal dealer today. A rather "outback" kind of place in Bangkok, well away from the recent political clashes in upper class shopping malls. For speakers that carry such a hefty price this dealer seems out of place. As we entered the building, we realized it's basically a townhouse with a couple of sound rooms one still under construction. The room housing Contriva Diacera was upstairs, and we had to walk past boxes and a kitchen and some more boxes before getting there. Inside, we saw a pair of rather unobtrusive pair of black shinny speakers. Sandwiched between them was a handsome Esoteric X-03 sitting on top of a McIntosh integrated amp. Pairing each speaker was a 1201 McIntosh monobloc. Linking all these items were massive cables, one of which was not too different in thickness to my own biceps (of which I'm rather proud of with regular workout). We brought 3 discs with us: Carpenters Reflections (a Blue Spec disc made in Japan), Dr Hook Greatest Hits (very ordinary disc with some tracks as flat as they come), and Dire Straits Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversay Edition SACD. Without as much as a conversation or even a quick marvel at the gears on display I passed Carpenters over to the polite dealer. He handed over the remote and off we went.
In summary:
I weep now that I'm back home trying to re-create any semblance of the sound we heard at the dealership with my Cremona M + Naim Electronics + Marantz SA7-S1.
Clearly every component (barring perhaps disc spinner) is outclassed. I suspect cables were not a small contribution to the dealer's sound. And the totality of the gains was impressive.
My wife (who clearly has superior hearing) immediately said after 1 track of Carpenters that this music was emotional. Kind of odd (not), since Tidal's slogan is "we build emotion", of which she had no idea as I dragged her along last minute. I was massively impressed too with this track (I Need To Be In Love). For me emotions are often lost and so a waste there of Contriva's talent. What stood out instead for me was the lucid vocal so natural and dominant yet without crowding out everything else that was there, which was a lot - particularly the gorgeous piano notes with each strike clearly audible and wonderful together with powerful but coarse drum beats far from polite and so close to what must be live sound. However what impressed me most was Dr Hook's Sylvia's Mother, as I was expecting next to nothing from this flattest of flat discs. My god, the layers of sound that I heard! The horn-like echos (akin to what you often hear in a Western movie during a gun fight) that went far left and so far right all across the room that I had barely noticed before became very meaningful 3-D special effects. I felt for some odd reason like I was sitting by a lake on another Dr Hook's track surrounded by forest trees. Maybe the emotion did get me. On Dire Straits, So Far Away, the beats were astounding on the metal discs. I could go on and on...
Overall conclusion:
We also listened to Carpenters and Dire Straits on Scala. Perhaps I'm artificial, as I like analytical sound and I adore scale, of which Scala created a larger musical landscape. My wife however had no doubt Contriva was her pick. On Dire Straits, I would have to give it to Contriva, particularly track 9 Brothers In Arms. The thunder at the start of the track that I test almost on all systems I audition was truly thunderous and there was no equal that I could remember. As amazing as these speakers were, I would most likely opt for Scala but am wary of the different electronics used - and I believe the Chord gears that partnered Scala were more expensive. The more realistic price of Scala certainly plays a part. But if not anything, I think this audition reminds me that perhaps I could up my electronics before getting in line for my final pair of speakers. My gears at home no matter how hard I crank up does not produce what I heard and shows up significant fidelity weaknesses. I will also head back to listen to Piano in a couple of months when it arrives. At a more sensible price, you never know... |
kw13----
the tidal speakers are indeed quite amazing!. glad you had the chance to listen to them with familiar material.price and perceptions are one thing and bang for the buck is totally another. i'll be the last one to advise you or others how to spent their hard- earned money, but what you exprienced at your bangkok tidal dealer, is the real thing....
undoubtedly, you'll be able to find some excellent , well made speakers under $30k, but you'll always question and compare them to the tidals....and that , to me, is the bottom line....just my $0.02.... |
Kw13, I own the Piano Classic. Do you know if the dealer has the Piano Cera coming or the Classic? From what I understand, at least from Jorn from Tidal, The Piano Classic may be a better fit for pop/rock. Based on the cd's you brought, it seems like that is you music preferences anyway. I will admit, I wasn't enamored with mine at first. I thought to myself, I paid that much money for speakers and at the time, my WLM La Scala system was the better system in my house. The Piano's forced my to deal with the rest of my chain including speaker positioning. After a few changes, or should I say a lot of changes(and Money) the Piano's now are draw dropping good. Just amazing really. Such balance, warmth, detail, air, extension, ect.. it's all there. I can put on some crappy Romones recording, and although it will never morph into sounding as good as the good recordings in my collection, it will sound better than I have ever heard the Romones sound before. Good luck. |
Ozy,
Yes fair comment as the sound I heard last night is now a benchmark and etched permanently. However so was the Focal Scala sound.
Kclone,
Unfortunately it's the Piano Diacera. I'm glad you made these comments, although I wonder how the classic (cheapest in the range) could outperform others for such wide music genre as pop/rock.
I am glad though that I came across this post and gained some insight into fine speakers. However not often have I listened to speakers as expensive as Contriva - maybe never. So that it redefines a few boundaries is not unexpected. What is has to stand up to now are further listening against peer speakers (in price terms). |
Kclone,
Could you elborate how you moved from our prior system (which included Scala?) to Piano? I believe Scala and Piano Classic prices are similar? |
kw13--
i heard the new jmlab focal scala at the last ces show in las vegas,with boulder electronics-- fantastic sound!
a few years ago i owned the nova utopia be,(and progressed to the grand utopia be later on), so i'm familiar with jmlab's sound and appraoch. they have certainly pushed the envelope with their latest offerings.... but than there's tidal, which , in my expereince, has gone further then most speakers out there in reproducing sound ever so accurately, both in timber and texture.again ,just my prospective..... |
Kw13. I sorry I should have clarified. My speakers are from WLM, not Focal. They are the WLM La Scala's. The WLM La Scalas are 5,000 new, quite bit cheaper than the Piano's.
In regards to the performance on genres like pop/rock. I have not done any comparisons with the other Tidal speakers. All I can tell you at this point is Jorn, the designer at Tidal listens to this genre, and he is keeping the Piano Classic in his system. He can have anything in the Tidal lineup he wants, but as he told me and the dealer via email, the Piano Classic is the right fit for him in his room and the type of music he listens too. I wanted the Piano Cera, it was newer and better overall. I mean it is the better speaker, Jorn admitted that, but he thought for me, it was not the best recommendation base on the info I gave him. I took the recommendation from the designer seriously and went with the Classic. He basically said it does a better job of making music out the not so good recordings in the pop/rock genre whereas the other models will show the sins. Like I said, I did not hear the others models in the lineup so for all I know they do a wonderful job if not better. Maybe others can comment, but I would not be surprise me if most Tidal users listen to the other genres that typically have better sounding recordings. |
I made a mistake of reading this tread in the first plance and committed a sin by following from the start till now. I was initally thinking about upgrading from Focal Diablo to Scala or MBL 116F which I ruled it out yesterday due to room size (13' x 20'). Now, I have to seriously think about auditioning the Piano Cera so that I won't have to regret later on.
Very interesting treads.
Thanks, |
....lucky boy...don't do it!!!..you'll never go back!!!! happened to me...now i'm waiting for a pair of contriva diacera-ses after hearing the piano ceras...best line of speakers i have heard in > 20 years...they get music right... |
Calloway, I can best you. In my over 45 years as an audiophile and trying everything from Klipshhorns, Lowthers, Infinity ServoStatics, Apogees, SoundLabs, Dayton Wrights, Avantegardes, Acapellas, JPLs, and Altecs and concluding that all were compromises, I have found the most real speaker. |
wow...beautiful system...i give...can't wait to get mine..should be ~ 4 weeks... |
Calloway, you are about the only person who has not said something about the 18kV isolators (cracked) that I use to keep wire off the floor.
It takes a while for the speakers to break in. I now have about 400 hours of use on them. I am told that I am not there as yet. The real crying shame is that I am going to abandon them for 3.5 months going to my NM mountain retreat from Texas heat. I will be using LSA1 Statements, most of my digital electronics, and Syn. Res. cabling. |
Tbg I wouldn't be able to bare with that! :) |
Argyro, you would if you spent many summers in Texas summer heat and humidity and tried Grado headphones last year. All they did was to put me to sleep. |
Tbg, How wide is the sweet spot on your speakers and what is the lead time to get a pair of Contriva Diacerra Se like yours and what is the retail price? |
Husk01, I am getting a very wide sweet spot, but toe in and room treatments can greatly influence this. You may be alluding to my posting on using Murata supertweeters and getting a wider sound stage. I did notice later that the top end using them was harsh and that on removing them, I could get an equally wide sound stage both with further breakin of the speakers and with less toe in.
On your further questions, I learned today that Tidal is going to set up a Tidal US and distribute them here directly. This may influence both questions. Probably, however, the demand for these speakers may still be such that a month or two may pass before you get delivery after buying them. |
Tbg, Thanks, is Aaudio the only current importer? |
Kclone,
Thanks for that useful comment. I listen to jazz too. These days not much different to soft pop. If Piano Classic indeed outshines on pop/rock I would certain have them on short list. Could I ask whether you have done any direct comparison between the different Tidal speakers:
Piano Classic
Piano Cera or Diacera
Contriva Diacera SE (this is one I heard)
Ozy,
Thanks again - I see you have Sunray. Did you do much comparison between the different speakers in deciding for Sunary?
Luck Boy,
I would be very interested in your thoughts how Focal Scala compares with Tidal. Would you be doing a comparison? For your info, I was very impressed with Diablo. I instead got Cremona M for fuller sound. But Diablo's high was the best I had heard. When I listened to Scala I was surprised it outperformed Diablo in almost all aspects (if not all), and in total a much better pair of speakers than any other I heard at the time. Unfortunately I did not get Scala as my room art the time was very small.
I will carry amp to dealer to check out Tidal in the next couple of months. Will report back. |
kw13---
i have not had a chance to hear any of the tidal speakers prior to getting my sunrays. i bought them ""blindly", on faith, if you will.
i later learned that out of the 23-25 sunrays out there , most owners bought them without ever listening to them. no one has ever returned them back........:~))).
i also considerd at the time the lansche 8.1, the jmlab gu em,eggleston savoy,and the rockport arrakis.(not necessarly in this order of priority).
to me, the sunrays offer all of the above's attributes and much more. |
husk01...doug white of 'thevoicethatis.com' is where i bought my contriva diacera-ses from..he is a great guy.....they are scheduled for delivery the week of july 12th ..can't wait.. |
Kw13,
Interesting you asked. I was planning to ask you about the differences between the Scala and the Piano in about two months after you get a chance to listen to the Piano.
I have not listened to them side by side. As a matter of fact, I have not listened to the Tidal speakers at all. The first time I heard of Tidal speakers was about a year ago from Linkster, I believed. He spoke very highly of the Amea speakers when I was in the process of changing my SF Memento speakers to Diablo. So, a couple of months ago, I saw this thread and decided to find out what they are all about and have been hooked since. There are about 10 participants in the thread and all of them think very higly of them. Now, I can't go back. I have to listen to them to find out for myself if they are indeed that great.
Thanks to all who contribute to this thread.
Regards, |
There is so much gushing over this brand that I am hugely interested in hearing them. However their presence in and around NYC is nill, providing little access. Because of this I can't help but be leery that this is a "speaker of the month" type of praise, mainly contributed to by the small number of owners who spent a lot of money on them.
I know I'm no being fair until I can hear them myself, but at this pice it is amazing that so many bought them unheard. Hopefully their presence will expand here in the US so we can make our own informed decisions.
In the meantime, I envy every current owners satisfaction with their sound. It is a truly nice thing to just sit back and say "this is amazing and as good as it's gonna get".
Congrats! |
I agree Ptmconsulting, it is always so refreshing seeing people 100% satisifed with what they have! ;)
Happy Listening,
Mike |
Ptmconsulting, the first production pair of Tidal's newest speaker (Piano Cera) lives with me in Rhode Island. You may want to pursue the owner network as opposed to the dealer network. |
ptmconsulting...i live in southern va and will be getting my contriva diacera-ses next month..if you are ever in this area you are more than welcome to come by and hear what all the fuss is about... |
Yesterday I had the chance of auditioning a Tidal Piano Cera, the only Tidal speaker I hadnt listen from their line! In one word AMAZING, it indeed sounds like a Sunray for a small room!! Cant wait, I hope I will have mine in a month!
Mike |
Argyro. What was feeding the Cera's? Just curious. |
Mike,
How does it compare with Contriva D SE?
Thanks |
Kclone as a power amp we used an Electrocompaniet 2 x 250, do not remember the model.
As a preamp, an Aaton Cineast and a Sovereign Director. The difference between the two was huuugeeeeee! The Tidal managed to display all attributes that made the Director a better preamp. It was absolutely SHOCKING how easily you could spot the differences. I have never heard differences between two preamps so easily.
The source was a Resolution Opus 21 and then my Orpheus DAC1!
Cables from epoch and then the famous Organic from Argento.
Kw13 the great thing about Tidal is that all their models differ only the size of the rooms that can fill. If you had ask me about the normal Contriva I would say that the only difference is bass output. But with the Contriva diacera SE I would add the naturalness of the diamond tweeter!
Just pick the speaker that fits your room and then add the Diacera option if you can go for it!
Happy Listening everyone!
Mike |
I was in the audition of Piano Cera together with Argyro. The sound was truly exceptional and this system even without all its component being in the top league could easily compete for the Best Sound of the Munich High End show if it had been demonstrated in this year's show.
The preamplifier was the Sovereign Director, the power amplifier was the Electrocompaniet AW-250 and the digital source was the Resolution Opus and/or Orpheus Dac One. Cables were the Organic by Argento... |
Bear in mind that the speakers had played only 40-50 hours so they were not properly broken yet... |
hmm. Mine did not have the amazing wow factor after only 40-50 hours. Sounded kind of mediocre to tell you the truth. At the time I was using an Audio Research REF 5 pre and a Sim Audio W-7. I was very disappointed with the sound. The thing is, Jorn said I didn't need to pay crazy attention to the chain to make the Classic sound good. I as mentioned before, paying attention to the chain and changing everything is exactly what I had to do to tap into their potential. Maybe the Cera is just that much better than the Classic. I wonder if I should have ignored his advice gone with the Cera in the first place? |
Kclone,
I guess you heard a big improvement when you replaced your Audio Research preamp? Both preamplifiers that we heard are superior to the Audio Research ref... |
Kclone unfortunately I cannot tell you something more than what Jorn told you. I have heard that it depends on the type of music you are listening the quality of the recordings. For example if you listen to Rock, Metal etc where the recordings are not so good you should go for the normal Piano, if you listen to other genres where quality of recordings is better then the Cera would be a better choice!
But dont try to compare auditions, what sounds awesome to me maybe be mediocre to you, you know words cannot really express what we listen to we dont have a common ground in describing sound except if we listen to the same thing the same time!
To tell you the truth I am not a big fun of Audio Research preamps It could contribute to the not so good sound you describe!
Happy Listening,
Mike |
For clarification, now mine sounds absolutely awesome. But, I had to change everything. The Herron preamp was a major improvement over the REF 5 for sure. Yes, I do listen to rock, but I hate most heavy metal. All I was saying is my experience seems different from everyone else. It seems everyone else had an amazing experience from the the time they plopped them down. I didn't, I had to put some work into to it. In the end, it was well worth it, a lot of fun and I am very happy now. I don't see myself worrying about speakers for years. |
Kclone, when I first heard Tidals at the '09 RMAF, they were absolutely green and were not impressive. On day 2 they were much better but still not something I would spend that much money on. But Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! Wow!
My personal experiences also largely reflect this. They grew better and better on a daily basis for at least the first two weeks. I had to play with how far they were from the speaker wall and with toe-in. Until I had they crossing just behind me, I did not have the optimal sound stage.
I am now approaching 500 hours and still hear improvements, typically in the bass.
I have yet to play much with the electronics. It now looks like I will have to await the RMAF to hear them with Tidal electronics, which I cannot afford. |
Well, I'm also a proud and extremely happy new owner of a Tidal speaker, the Sunray. It was definitely worth the wait. I was lucky to have the finances and decided to buy a "last ever speaker". Yes, they are not cheap, but for me its a matter of priorities. Some like fast cars or a boat. I love listening to music and the Sunray makes me fulfill the wish to reproduce live music with hifi. No more searching for me and looking for anything better. I'm just completely relaxed after owning the Sunray. Still have to break them in, but already the sound is amazing. And boy, the finish is nice. Ive got the black Piano finish, build quality is absolutely superb.
The sound is so transparent and right. With some other speakers I've heard I preferred some artificial sweetness that made it sound better. With my Sunray I dont require that. I love the sound, the big sweet spot. They just disappear in my room even though it are big speakers ☺. The sound is becoming smoother once they are breaking in more and more, no ceramic harshness.
Unfortunately I wasnt able to listen to the full Tidal suit at the Munich show but was lucky enough to get a flavor of the Tidal Impact when the Sunray was delivered. Off course the listening session was way to short, not broken in speakers etc etc, but the Sunray sound indeed very very nice with the Tidal Impact monoblocks. Very fast, light and effortless, string instruments sounded amazing. Ill definitely try to audition the Impact stereo or monoblocks when the Sunray is properly broken in.
I dont need to stress people to listen to the Tidal speakers and electronics if they have the opportunity since its already published many times in this thread. But its definitely worth it ☺. |
Great for you Maxx1973. Congrats. |
Maxx - which speakers did you compare them to when you were doing auditions? I'm sure you had to have compared a lot before spending so much money. I would love to hear your comments.
Thanks! |
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Calloway, I think that Tidal just did not anticipate it success. I had to wait nearly six months to get mine even though I was an early adopter. I expect that production could be greatly increased but what were demand to sharply decline? This is always the challenge of a small and successful company.
In MHO, there is no speaker even close to my Contriva Diacera SEs. I suspect that Tidal lesser speakers may get close, but I am very happy to have mine. I think, Linkster captured the essence of those Tidal speakers I have heard.
Calloway, I wish I could lend you mine as I am now in New Mexico and out of Texas heat, but my Tidals are not. Here I am listening to LSA1 Statements in a 10 x 13 x 8 foot room, but the skies are blue, it was 45º this morning, we are surrounded by pine trees and at 8750 feet with pure clean air. What a tradeoff. |
Maxx1973, my first opportunity to hear Tidal speakers driven by Tidal electronics will be the coming Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. I am fearful that they may be a must.
I must say that you are in for a largely daily improvement for about the next two months. |
tbg...my 'se'contrivas are due to be delivered the week of the 12th of july...so, all-in-all not too long to wait.thanks for the offer...i can't wait.. |
Calloway,
I understand the excitement of waiting for new gear. But it can't be that bad if you are waiting while enjoying Piega c-40s;-) |
...it would be great if i still had them but alas, they were sold.won't be long.. |
