..my new contriva diacera-ses continue to evolve with better detail..a smoother presentation and tighter bass....i added a 'flow' pc to my meitner player which also improved the presentation and soundstage...i can't believe that they will continue to improve..i currently only have about 16 hrs on them...now i'm listening 'to the music' instead of listening 'for the music'.totally enjoyable. |
After 100 hours you will feel like it is a different speaker |
..hard to believe it will get better...i now just listen to music..no ongoing thought process..just enjoyment..FINALLY..!! |
Colloway, congrats!
Would b interested to read your thoughts in a few weeks too. Often I marvel at the improvement after an upgrade and wonder whether this was it, only to upgrade again in a while. Is this euphoria or not? Suspect you will not know for sure for some time.
Still waiting to hear Piano in a few weeks.
Been reading about new speakers seem to be proliferating. |
....~ 50 hrs on the se's now...the soundstage has both widened and deepened and the music is more liquid sounding...the instrumental decay is amazing and the instrumental tonality is 'spot on'....the detail retrieval is also superb.....cannot believe how almost magical listening to music is now...i just thought it was great before...stay tune for the 100 hr report.. |
contriva diacera owners....how much toe-in do you have in the position of your speakers...?...where are they pointing in relation to your head in your listening position...?..just curious.. |
Previous generation Contriva with ceramic tweeter: something like 20°-25°. Distance between the speakers is 2.9m, whereas each of the triangle's sides to my listening position is 3.4m. In aviation terms that's a "near miss" with my ears, the beams crossing just behind my head. |
I haven't seen my Contrivas in 3 months, but mine are just over 10' apart. I do this to avoid having them too close to my side walls. I sit at the same distance from both. They are toed in to intersect just behind my my ears which sounds just like Karelfd's solution.
The distance the Contrivas are from the side walls and from the back wall, I have found are critical to the bass response. I measure the distance from a point between the woofers and the floor and multiply it by 1.65 which can be the distance from the back wall to the face of the woofers or from the center of the woofers and the side walls. Whichever you use, the other distance is then 1.65 times that distance. |
I ordered a pair of the contriva. To arrive in a few months. Hopefully it won't disappoint me. |
...THEY WON'T...they are that good...mine continue to get better every week..now ~ 150 hrs... |
Calloway, Friday or Saturday I should have mine up and running again. I got the Sander Magtech amp now. I have always been concerned that the H-Cat with a 100watts was just not enough power. I think 800 watts into 4 ohms per side should be enough. |
i think you will see a big difference..let us know.. |
Calloway, there are a multitude of reasons why what I am hearing with my Tidals now that I didn't hear earlier. One is that I forgot how outstanding these speakers are. Two, my Weiss Dac202 is now fully broken in. Three, the Sanders Magtech amp is now fully broken in and its 900 watts per channel into 4 ohms gives it great authority (this is what I am sure you were implying). Four, Pure Music 1.61 played in Memory and HOG mode far surpasses PM 1.40 as used last June. Five, although the Contrivas had no signal for three months, their lacquer may have hardened. Six, a combination of all of the above.
At any rate the top end is etherial and sweet. The ambience of the recording venue, whether open air or in a studio, are quite evident. The dynamics are startling. And the precision of placement within the sound stage is strikingly vivid. |
Tbg,
having extensive experience with computer based audio, I strongly suggest you should prefer Amarra instead of the Pure Music. I believe that Pure Music tonality is wrong. My Weiss Medea/Vesta setup is quite neutral and similar to yours so I believe you will easily hear the difference when you are listening to piano (Pure music sound is thinner than it should be)... I also saw some serious improvement when I used a firewire cable made by the professional division of Oyaide. Check AsiaWeiss for more info... |
Geopolitis, I will try Amarra again, but it was no contest when last I compared the two when it was Pure Music 1.40 not the new 1.63. |
Geopolitis, I installed Amarra 2 and listened to two cds. I don't know whether it plays from the hard drive or from memory or ram. It is louder than Pure Music and has more pronounced bass. It doesn't have the top end of Pure Music and thus lacks the ambience retrieval and sense of sound stage.
I will listen more this evening and then do some fast as I can comparisons, but right now I prefer Pure Music as it has greater realism of the recording event. |
In my opinion that trick of lowering the midbass region by few db in order to give the impression that there is more resolution and more details in the rest of the audible spectrum is totally unacceptable. I have seen the same trick used on and on by cable or DAC manufacturers and it pisses me off.
In order to understand where is the real difference between the Amarra and Pure Music try a comparison between your DAC and a Benchmark. You will hear exactly the same effect. Same with cables (I have personally compared my Argento Flow with a Stealth Indra RCA interconnect and heard exactly the same).
Except the midbass gap, there is also a phase shift in some upper frequencies that gives you the effect of the deeper soundstage. But then, was this depth really what the mastering engineer had in his mind or is it created by the software using those phase shift tricks? |
Geopolitis, sorry that is not my experience. I do hear the difference with my SR and Exemplar cables and with my H-Cat, Weiss Minerva, and Weiss Dac202, but that only proves the superiority of Pure Music. I will soon have my Exemplar/Oppo 83 back and will see which it is closer to the PM or Amarra. |
no worries my friend. Better keep the one you like....
It would be easier to check which of the two programs is closer to a top vinyl system if you have one around.
Bear in mind that the conclusions about Pure Vinyl are not just mine. There are at least 3 people with top systems that have the same opinion... Including people using Tidal speakers.... |
Geopolitis, who are they? I know two who totally agree with me for whatever that is worth. What version of PM are you working with? PM 1.60 was a big jump in quality as was Memory playback and HOG. |
Geopolitis, I should say that I discovered that my Syn. Res. Universal Cells were not charged. I realized that this morning and connected them. This made a very large improvement of both the sound using Amarra and Pure Music, but changed my preferences not at all. |
Tbg,
I am using the Pure Vinyl not the Pure music but I assume that it has the same music engine.
Argyro is of the guys, the others don't write in Audiogon... |
Geopolitis, I think Pure Vinyl includes Pure Music, but you might need to check how current your PM is. There have been many upgrades in the last several months. Going from 1.46 to 1.6 was a major improvement. |
Ι will check but I think I have the latest version.... |
Kw13 re your second audition,
06-27-10:
"Went back for second audition. This time Contriva not as impressive. The stand out vacal in first audition a few weeks ago was gone. Still very enjoyable but not much more special than any other high end pair. Dealer said he had optimized speaker position. More suited to classical music."
Just a thought - Seems to me here that the dealer might have moved the speakers a tad too far apart in hoping to achieve more 'grandness' (to capture better/larger orchestral presentation/scale). However, at the cost of sacrificing some center image fill, hence, loosing that sense of vocal immediacy and illuminated palpability you experienced during your first. |
Bvdiman,
Perhaps you're right which would make speakers very sensitive to positioning. Music was still very good but not memorable. First audition tho was and lingers.
Went back to listen to Piano this time. Finally had arrived. Burned in with I believe over 400hrs. Hooked up with an assortment of gears: pass lab massive monoblocks, top moon pre amp and escoteric cdp with digital out into a 1500usd dac. Sound was anything but memorable. Held back. Not engaging. Lots of low and high details but one dimensional. Was packing up my cds after an hour or so. Then dealer suggested I listened via his server (macbook + DAC via usb). System came alive. Piano managed to do something similar but not quite what contriva had done on hi res tracks. We then burned Dr Hook and streamed it. But it did not approach what I heard on contriva with esoteric. Leaves me to conclude either get contriva or something else. Likely go back for final audition between scala and piano (dealer believes he needs to optimize as he agreed a few thngs were not right about the sound) as I would dread to spend 60k on speakers to make contriva regardless of performance a real option. Visually piano a stunner. Preferred them to contriva easily. Looks probably better than my cremona m. Exudes authority and class. A bit taller and wider than cremona m. |
Kw13,
Just want to confirm that you listened to the Piano Dicera. Also, if you have to get a pair today, which ones would you get, the Scala or the Piano? Speaking of Scala, did you compare them to Revel Salon2?
Thanks, |
My Tidal Piano Cera finally arrived! I am still in awe from the sound quality, stay tuned for listening impressions! Super clean and accurate, super fast and musical at the same time!
Mike |
I have removed the StillPoints Component stands from my Contrivas and replace them with four new StillPoints Ultimate feet in stainless steel. There was a major improvement in the soundstage and bass. I have never installed the stands that came with the Contrivas.
These StillPoints Ultimate SSs are amazing but I only have 12 with 8 going under the Contrivas and three under my Oppo 83 moded by Exemplar. |
Tbg, if you have never installed the factory original feet, how would you then know that the StillPoints are superior? |
A trusted friend with Contrivas told me his experiences when he went to the StillPoints Component Stands. I did the comparison between the Ultimate feet and the Component Stand. |
Glad to hear you have the Piano Cera Argyro. It is great your setup sounds outstanding from the outset. My Piano classic sounded good when I first got it, but not draw dropping good like you would expect from an expensive speaker line. I thought getting a great speaker would hide the other sins. I Addressed other areas in my system, and now I am in awe every time I listen. I still get sense of excitement to fire the system up every single time. |
One week with the Piano Cera has passed. It is amazing how this speaker manages to pass the emotion of the music but sounding just RIGHT.
I will be honest with you, after 10 years I had kind of lost hope on all speakers out there. They all had distinctive sounds that when spotted I was ready for my next upgrade. I was ready to drop out from the hobby until i heard the Tidal line for the first time 3 years ago.
I still remember a tear in my eye from the first tune "Soldier of Fortune" from Whitesnake, a live from Japan. From that moment there was no way back for me.
Since then I listened to all Tidal line in several occasions and systems. At first you cannot understand what is really going on but after some minutes you are shocked from the spot on tonality, phase, resolution! The crossover points are just untraceable living just the music!
This is my last speaker for many years to come, thats for sure.
A big thanks to TIDAL for bringing back music in my life. The indeed build emotions!
Happy listening everyone and thanks for the big support!
Mike |
Well I got my first chance to hear the Tidals with Tidal electronics at the RMAF. On Sunday, the sound was extraordinarily good on the Piano Diaceras. These thrilling realism of the diamond tweeter was there and the bottom end was quite good.
By Sunday, this was one of the top three rooms at the RMAF. |
I should perhaps preface my remarks by saying that I am not a Tidal speaker owner but was very impressed with the Sunrays at CES and with their smaller speakers driven in the past with Ypsilon electronics. Having said that, I was not particularly impressed with what I heard at RMAF this year. It certainly was not in the top five or so rooms that I heard. |
Fcrowder, I would have said that until Sunday as I would have said about Tidal at the last CES and RMAF. At this RMAF in MHO it was among the top three. |
I agree with Fcrowder's assessment, having heard the system on Sunday, and found them uninvolving. Although I am a dealer, I do not sell competing products in the same price range. |
I was at RMAF on Friday and Saturday and thought that the Tidal room was one of the most musical rooms there. Many of the other exhibitors seemed to overpower their rooms or their speakers were, as one commentator has stated, "too aggressive" on the top end. Not the Tidals, they played music and I could have spent hours in that room. |
I should make it clear that I am not diminishing the Ypsilon electronics in saying that the Tidals with their electronics were one of the best sounding rooms. I bought my speakers largely on the basis of what they sounded like with the excellent Ypsilon amps. I can afford neither of these fine products but would love to have either. |
Luckyboy,
Yes I listened to Piano Diacera. If I had to decide today, I would rank my listening experience equally between Scala and Contriva Diacera with Piano Diacera as some way behind. I have heard Scala on 3 separate occasions. First was the best and absolutely awe inspiring. They were partnered with top Chord gears so some credit would have to be given to electronics. Second was awful - speakers not burnt in and I believe some mismatch with Accuphase electronics. Third was once again excellent but not as good as first, with BAT tube amps (same shop as second audition). My conclusion is, if I have the right amps I could live with Scala and would adore music from these speakers. I heard Contriva twice. First was truly memorable. They were as impressive as Scala but in different ways. They hit hard with thunderous bass laced with details so fine to create contrast and dynanmic at a level hard to believe. Best of all, vocal was surreal and spooky in the best possible way imaginable. Second audition was mediocre but still not shameful given their almost shameless price. Piano approached Contriva in some way and even that was almost magic but just didn't have the muscle and meat of Contriva and unconvincing in that way. So I am torn between Scala and Contriva and wished I had enough money for both. Lucky for me my budget caps off at around Scala so I should not have a difficult time deciding when I eventually have to decide. I will bring my own amps to Scala for final run before maybe pulling the trigger around bonus time (wife and family permitting as even that is a major financial undertaking). Taught me tho why there are diverging comments about same gears - because they can sound very different depending on circumstances. |
Kw13, I assume you mean the Klipsch Scalas. I had their corner horns in the late '60s, but my room left a hole in the center. I thought about the La Scalas, but they didn't have the bass. I loved the Klipsch speed and efficiency. I could use SETs on them. |
I think it was Focal Scala that Kw13 was comparing to. |
Bvdiman, I suspect you are right. Are they still about $30k? If so, the Piano DiaCeras are more expensive at $37,690 but certainly have a better top end. |
Tbg,
Yes Focal Scala. Tweeters on these are to behold too. |
I received my contriva diacera today. Here comes another round of speaker burn-in unfortunately. |
kw13--
the jm lab scalas were one of the best sounds of 2010 ces. paired with boulder amps and pre, they sounded glorious, only second, though to the tidal contrivas......at least to my ears.
either way, you can't go wrong with either one, budget permmittng ,of course. |
Sorry, but you speak of the focal scale? |
Same thing Ciro71, JMLab used to be the initial name (JM, stand for founder Jacques Mahul), in those times Focal stood for a range of drivers they sold. Some way down the line the brand Focal was used for all products.
Alec, congrats and welcome to the inner circle!
Karel |
Ozy, if my memory serves me well there was Stella EM on CES 2010 demo. |
elviukai----
the room that i attended and refered to had the boulder amps preamp , emm's new cd player and the jm lab/ focal maestro speakers. it was on the 36 or 37th floor of the venetian, if my memory serves me correctly. |
