@tomthiel, thanks for the additional info! I hope you enjoy your new Benchmark gear. I'll look forward to your more detailed comments on the extra load of the EQ for the CS3.5, especially with respect to what @unsound mentioned about dealing with the impedance "bump" in the low bass.
@unsound, thanks for the discussion of the comparison between Figure 1 and Figure 3 in the Stereophile article on the CS3.5. Does the impedance rise vs. the EQ boost in the low bass fully offset the extra demands for more power when the EQ is used? If an amp puts out only 100 w/channel into 8 ohms, wouldn't available power drop even lower when the impedance goes above 8 ohms?
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big_greg et al,
On the 3.6s I’ve replaced the mids with rebuilts by Rob at CSS and also changed out the ferrofluid on the tweeters. The updates resulted in a very extremely small softening on the highs, but only perceptible and barely so on a few tunes. This was all done prior to auditioning the previously mentioned DACs.
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Ha, must have been typing as @TomThiel was posting.
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@sdl4, If I may, yes, bridged stereo amps typically don't handle lower impedances well. They are better suited for insensitive, high impedance speakers, where the extra power can be better appreciated, with the added benefit of better stereo separation, though typically with higher distortion levels.
Yes, the CS 3.5's eq makes greater demands on the amp. But.... this is mitigated by cleverly using the impedance peak that typically naturally occurs due to box resonance.
Thiel CS3.5 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
Compare fig. 1 with fig 3. (you can ignore fig. 2 as those measurements would be specific to the testers individual room). Jim Thiel with his uncanny cleverness has the eq nearly identically overlap the impedance hump with the eq boost. This not only relieves the amp of power draw, but it also mitigates the draw from sucking power from the closely overlapping 1st order midrange. Converting a deviance from linearity into an advantage. All towards full range extended bass from a relatively small footprint, with superior time and phase coherence. Brilliant!
Full range Class D has not traditionally worked best with low impedance loads, Specialized Class D subwoofer amps are different. Though these Class D sub amps are reputed to be the most failure prone components in the field. Parts and repairs are not especially likely to be counted upon either. On the other hand there is a new generation of Class D amp modules just coming to market that hold special promise. I'm eagerly waiting for consumer reports on these new amplifiers.
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sdl4 - you are correct about bridged amps 'seeing' half the load impedance of a stereo amp. That said, the 2.2 is a fairly benign load, especially as Thiels go.
I recommend you compare your PS to the AHB if you can. I was gobsmacked by the difference between my S300 and the AHB. I'll soon have more to report, I'm expecting delivery today of a BM DAC3B and HPA4 front end. Better than Christmas.
I also have some thoughts about the 'extra' load imposed by the EQ - more on that later.
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@duegi I have used an Aqua La Voce DAC in my system with the 3.6s and it sounded great. They are too bright with my vinyl setup. I haven't used my TEAC NT-505 with the 3.6s, but it is also very warm. It uses the AK4497 DAC chips. It's been discontinued and the new model uses a D/S chip, due to the fire at the AKM factory and probably sounds different. If you can find a used one, it's very nice. It's also a streamer, so you could ditch the Bluesound. I would look at R2R DACs like MHDT Labs and others before Schiit. I had a Bifrost in a second system and it was very good for the money, but did have some glare. Things sounded much better and warmer after I moved the NT-505 into that system.
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@cascadesphil I have the first version of the tweeters in the 2.3s. My room has wood paneling, so not the greatest listening area, but I have numerous sound treatment panels in the room, and a thick rug in front of the system. I moved my Klipsch Quartets into my main system a few days ago just for fun and they are easier to listen to (less bright) than either my 2.3s or the 3.6s.
I hear (or read) repeatedly that Thiels are very revealing of the source and I have to agree. With my Aqua La Voce DAC, there's very little of that hard edge, only on a few recordings, while with my vinyl setup things sound too bright with close to half the records I play. Vinyl sounds great with my Quartets, my Harbeths, KEF Ref 1, and Stirlings. I think both speakers are great, they just don't seem to be a good match with my room and system.
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DAC parings with Thiel 3.6s...
Trials and tribulation about DACs in my system and searching for input from you all. To date I’ve tried DacMagic 200m, Ayer Codex, Benchmark DAC3-B, Chord Hugo TT2, and a Bryston BDA-2. All being fed by a Bluesound Node gen 3 or Rasberry Pi via Cardas Clear (USB & Coax). Comparing to vinyl, all the DACs come across as very bright on the highs for my listening tastes.
So far the best sounding DAC has been feeding through the unit built into the Yamaha CD-S2100 utilizing USB or coax. It doesn’t over drive the bass or create piercing highs like all the previously mentioned DACs.
I’m starting to look in the multibit or R2Rs from here out I think perhaps giving Schiit or Denafrips a try. Maybe even searching for an older ML No36 or the like. I do realizing clocking/jitter can be an issue with earlier DACs. I’m getting the idea that the Sigma/Delta dac isn’t the way to go with my set up.
Oh sorry, using Mc C22 tube pre and MC462 amp feeding into the 3.6s, as a repeat the set up sounds excellent with vinyl and regular CDs (Yamaha). And as a side note I'm keeping the Bryston for the upstairs system as it does work well with the Anthem pre, amp, and Polk LSiM 705s.
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@tomthiel
Thanks so much for the additional info about the Benchmark amp in your system and room. I think my room is a little smaller than yours, which could affect the amp-speaker match a bit. My current amps are the PSA M700 monoblocks, which have plenty of power and sound really good, too. Your S300 is a lower powered stereo sibling of the M700, and I wondered how the CS3.5 works with the S300 compared to the Benchmark amp.
I may not be remembering this correctly and it may not apply to the Benchmark amp anyway, but I thought that most stereo amps in bridge mode didn't handle lower impedance loads as well as the stereo version did (which could make it a less good match with the CS2.2). It also seems like the use of EQ down to 20 Hz with the CS3.5 could require quite a bit of juice from an amp, and the non-EQ'd CS2.2 wouldn't require as much power from any amp.
It would be fun to compare my M700s to the AHB-2 directly, but I remain more fascinated with how the new Atma-Sphere Class D amp might sound with my CS2.2s. The A-S amp uses GaN-FETs and is rated at 200 w/channel at 4 ohms. I won't be attending AXPONA next week, but I'll be looking for comments on the sound of the A-S amp at the show before I decide whether to try to demo any of these options.
Thanks again for all your input!
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bobscliff
I have not had a Peachtree audition. Consider an audition with your local dealer/retailer or contact Peachtree to inquire specs on the Nova 300 model.
Over the years, I used this method for internal information not discussed in Audio press reviews.
Happy Listening!
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@big_greg
Do you have the original tweeters in the 2.3s, or the later revisions (vented). When my friend worked at the store we updated a few pairs (and those were where someone had blown a tweeter). On my first visit to the store, when I moved to the area, they had a pair of 3.6s on the floor but I never heard them as by the time I got back to the store ithe 3.6s were gone and I was just looking for a CD player as I was renting a temporary townhouse with most things in boxes waiting for a new house to be built.
The later tweeters might help a hair with harshness at higher volumes. I had moved on to the 7.2s by the time the updated tweeters for the 2.3s came out. While I use my audio rooms for audio, I do treatments to tame the bad areas (without making it look like a studio). GIK Acoustics (and others) have art panels. They have lots of pictures to put on them or you can put your own (I actually have a couple of wildlife shots in my office - more the pictures vs. treatment)
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@sdl4 - circling back to your inquiry about driving 2.2s with a single stereo AHB-2. I answered yes you could. But that answer is close to dangerous advice. Granting that it all depends on room size and loudness levels, one amp could easily run out of steam. The 2.2 has a very flat impedance curve that only drops below 4 ohms from 100-200Hz. Its sensitivity is stated as 86dB/2.83volts. Thiel recommended 50-250 watts into 8 ohms capable of doubling to 4). I have often driven them with one AHB-2 without issue. But my room (which I have described) is quite difficult to assess due to its unconventional construction. I also rarely listen above 85dB (VU peaks).
What gives me pause is the assumptions of a normal room and levels. This week I am running trials on CS3.5 equalizer upgrades. My amps are the PSA Stellar 300 @ 150/channel and the Benchmark AHB-2 at 100, which has been discussed here.
The 3.5 with EQ goes flat to 20Hz; its sensitivity is 88dB with a flat impedance curve that drops to 5ohms between 100 and 1K. It should be an easier load than the 2.2. In a room I will describe below, I can run out of amp about 100dB (VU) peaks.
This room is an uninsulated (leaky) camp with openings that somewhat consolidate the place into one acoustic space measuring 19’x 30’x about 9’ average ceiling under a shallow gable roof - let’s call it 5000 cubic feet. To fill this space at satisfying levels without worrying about stressing drivers via distortion, I would want a pair of bridged AHB2s.
Underpowering is what kills drivers. I appreciate unsound’s push-back against my marginal recommendation that one would be ’just fine’ for you. Perhaps you can find an AHB-2 to borrow for trials. Let us know what you get.
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@cascadesphil
When someone poses a question, I try to put myself in their shoes within their budgets and what they want to accomplish. I often help people who are not audiophiles. I wouldn't want to impart any of my disease (😀) to them. We all have different tastes and goals and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's pretty much my approach also. I try to keep my comments limited to what I have experience with, avoid speculation on things I don't have experience with, and acknowledge that there's more than one way to achieve your system goals.
I might nudge someone towards waiting and saving up a little if their budget doesn't seem realistic compared to their stated goals, but I don't recommend that people spend more than they can afford.
I have a pair of 2.3s and 3.6s. I find them both to be a little strident. They do so many things right that I want to love them, but I haven't had much luck taming them with my gear and my room. I plan to try the 2.3s in my bedroom system with a 460 watt Wyred 4 Sound class D amp and see how that works. I never play at high volumes there, so it might be a good match.
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"
I owned a Nova 300 for a while and thought it was a decent and affordable unit. That was before I owned any Thiels, so I can't comment on how it paired with them, but depending on who you listen to, it might not be a great match sonically. In regards to Art's comments above, Peachtree responded that the Nova 300 was probably not a great match with Art's high sensitivity speakers.
It's been a while since I owned mine, but my memory is more of it being a little rolled off on the top, so it might actually be a good match with the Thiels."
Thanks for sharing from actual and that's the best we can do in a forum like this. I've owned Thiel 2.3s, 7.2s and 3.7s. I've had Proceed HPA, Bryston ST, Bryston SST, Modwright, a couple of Icepower AS (1200) amps, one in stereo and one modded dual mono and now a modded LSA Voyager GaN 350. In addition, my friend worked at a high end shop and many moons ago (15-20 years or so), I did virtually all his installs/set-ups with him over a 6 year period. Delivered and set up, 1.6s, 6s, 2.4s, 1.7s in addition to what I've owned. The store carried Levinson, Proceed, Bryston, VTL. Ayre, Linn and probably a couple of others for electronics.
I can also agree that the IcePower modules I've heard are a little more laid back at the top end than the modded Voyager I know own (and it too has more detail and body). The 3.7s are not as picky in my experience as some as the older Thiels with sounding bright with certain things. I once delivered a system with 2.3s and I wanted to shoot them. The guy had two high walls of glass (probably 12 feet high), a (5 ft.) coffee table at an angle between the walls to house the equipment and a glass and stone fireplace opposite the speakers.
When someone poses a question, I try to put myself in their shoes within their budgets and what they want to accomplish. I often help people who are not audiophiles. I wouldn't want to impart any of my disease (😀) to them. We all have different tastes and goals and there's nothing wrong with that.
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^As was posted earlier, one is unlikely to find specs for a very specific load. Standard specs are for 8 / 4/ 2 and sometimes 16 Ohms. "The nature of the audio industry is what it is." Working from a standard 2 Ohm spec will comfortably cover the needs for a 2.4 user. Other impedance specs could come up short. Does the IcePower spec sheet indicate power into load?
Real world trials are experienced by most everyone. Conclusions vary.
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I would be more concerned about the sound quality characteristics of the Peachtree Nova 300 than its power ratings. Here's a quote from Art Dudley from the review mentioned previously:
"By the end of my time with Peachtree Audio's nova300, I was impressed with its superb overall musicality but remained somewhat ambivalent about its sound, at least one aspect of which—grainy trebles—is associated in the minds of some with class-D amplification in general."
I owned a Nova 300 for a while and thought it was a decent and affordable unit. That was before I owned any Thiels, so I can't comment on how it paired with them, but depending on who you listen to, it might not be a great match sonically. In regards to Art's comments above, Peachtree responded that the Nova 300 was probably not a great match with Art's high sensitivity speakers.
It's been a while since I owned mine, but my memory is more of it being a little rolled off on the top, so it might actually be a good match with the Thiels. Other integrateds that I've owned from ARC, Simaudio, and Vincent to name a few, all seemed to have a little more detail and a little more "grunt" and body than the Peachtree.
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Why all the concern with continuos power into 2 ohms? I believe the modules I read somewhere are made by IcePower (and their spec sheets talks about 2.5 ohms as does Peachtree's). The person asking the question, the most important thing in suggesting something, uses Thiel 2.4s. They don't have an impedance as low as 2 ohms at any frequency and they don't even have something as low as 2.5 ohms. It (the 2.4s) dips a drop below 3 ohms at 600Hz and is pretty consisentently around 3 ohms the rest of the audio band. The nature of the audio industry is what it is. That's why I try things in the real world.
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^As is often the case, unless a manufacturer offers a 2 Ohm spec Stereophile doesn't do a complete test at that load. Even then they will often just test one channel of a stereo amp, even knowing that the amp shares its power supply between both channels. The skeptic might presume that Stereophile is more concerned with avoiding embarrassment to a potential advertiser than offering useful information to its subscribers. Furthermore, there seems to be a pattern from manufacturers specs sheets that suggests that manufactures have figured out how to avoid Stereophile's 2 Ohm testing. That this manufacturer suggests suitability of the unit under test for 2 Ohm applications, Stereophile offers incomplete testing into 2 Ohms for distortion. While the results of the 2 Ohm distortion testing suggest significantly higher distortion into 2 Ohms than is the case into 4 or 8 Ohms it is still within reason for the end user. Importantly there is no measure of power output into 2 Ohms.
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^Without any regard to power output or at what levels of distortion? Not saying much. Why don’t they provide actual usable specs?
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As indicated above "The amplifier in the nova300 is capable of driving an extremely wide range of speakers with impedances as low as 2.5Ω and as high as 16Ω"
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@jafant
Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm very grateful to have these speakers, such an upgrade from my well-loved but comparatively dinky PSB Alpha B1s. I only feel a little burdened by having to get such a specific and powerful amp.
Do you agree that the Peachtree Nova 300s would be able to power the 2.4s below 4 ohms well? They seem to check the boxes and I'm fine stretching my budget since it has a DAC and preamp.
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Ah, we were talking about different things. Internet conversations can be challenging.
Believe me, I’ll never accuse you of under powering your Thiels. And I am certain I’m not under powering mine regardless of any measurements you share. I get the proof everyday :)
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@beetlemania , The "random peaks" I was referring to was in regard to your comment regarding my listening levels. I don’t listen at sustained loud listening levels. Almost never at levels that would occur during live concerts. I scale down to room size. I do have a fairly generous sized room, and power accordingly.
I drive Thiel CS 3.5’s which don’t drop below 4 Ohms. The suggested minimum power levels I previously posted are not something I made up. Those are the minimum power levels Jim Thiel would recommend. For my CS 3.5’s the minimum would be, depending on vintage, between 80 and 100 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms.
The high Wattage numbers posted are a consequence of impedance. I don't think many would think that the comparable minimum 100 Watts per channel into 8 an Ohm load would be excessive. And, often times it's not so much the power output but the low impedance that many amps find difficult.
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bobscliff
Welcome! Good to see you here today. Take the time to read through this thread and you will discover a plethora of Information. The CS 2.4 is a Honey of a loudspeaker. Nice inheritance gift!
My 1st 2.4 audition featured a Creek integrated amp (the older black/green scheme) NAD BEE cd player and Audioquest all around. This particular combo was very Musical. The Creek really held its own. I listened as loud as I wanted without degradation in presentation/sound.
Living in a small NYC apartment you will not require Rock concert decibel levels.
There has never been a better time to seek out an Integrated amp. Not only do I endorse one, I own one. And I was a separates die-hard for decades. The advancements and technology are incredible. More and more Audio manufacturers are producing these guys year after year.
Keep me posted on your buying decision. Have fun!
Happy Listening!
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The “dynamic power” tests are sine-waves (or square-waves), not random. These are much closer to, you know, actual music than steady state signals. I wish Stereophile had kept that in their bag.
>>>doesn't drop below 4 Ohm
Excuse me?
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@beetlemania , those are random peaks into a load that doesn't drop below 4 Ohms. My amp is capable of 500 Watts per channel continuous into 4 Ohms and double that for up to a couple of minutes. All within Thiel's recommendation.
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@casecadesphil, As you may well know as a loudspeakers impedance drops so respectively does it's sensitivity. The 400 Watts into 2 Ohms previously suggested is similar to 100 Watts into 8 Ohms. 100 Watts is the minimum Thiel recommended for the CS 2.4's. But that's at an amps standard 8 Ohm rating with the assumption that the amp is of such quality that it can double down with impedance to compensate for the actual impedance load. Amps are typically rated from 8 Ohms/ 4 Ohms / 2 Ohms and in some cases 16 Ohms, so that's what we have to work with. So with that in mind the as used minimum recommendation would be 400 Watts into 2 Ohms. If an amp can't double down from the minimum 100 Watts into 8 Ohms recommendation then the speaker is losing potential useable power. Many amps can not keep up with the power to sensitivity ratio -3dB for each halving of impedance. In which case one would need to start with more power. In the case of these Thiels at least the impedance is fairly consistent, so the loss of frequency linearity doesn't suffer that much.
Being "stable" into a given load only means that the amp won't go into oscillation when presented with such a load. It is not a measure or power delivery, distortion or the quality of sound when presented with such a load.
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Keep in mind @unsound listens very loudly, peaks at 105 dB. Most Thiels are certainly going to need a boatload of power 2-4 ohms to reach that level. If I had that listening preference, I would pick different speakers.
If you listen to Thiels at more typical levels, it opens up many options. IMO, test results of steady state signals are , at best, a guide. It’s fair, I think, to look at the measurements and conclude a 10 W SET is a poor match for the CS5. But there is a wide middle-ground where you might let your ear be your guide. Here are the measurements for my amp which @unsound has informed me is a poor match for the CS2.4 despite, apparently, never having listened to the combo:
https://www.hifinews.com/content/ayre-ax-5-twenty-integrated-amplifier-lab-report
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To my knowledge, I don't know of an independent lab testing the full specs. There's a review (without measurements) by a member of the SF Audiophile Society and he notes about its 2 ohm rating "“2 ohms stable” (not sure exactly what that means?)"
I'm also not aware of an independent lab test of my old Modwright KWA 150SE. There's a review I saw that indicates a 4 ohm minimum impedance but there are no accompanying measurements. My old (before the Modwright), Bryston 14BSST has some (but not much) actual measurements 2 ohm (Stereophile) but not with lots of watts and the Bryston was rated 600W into 8 ohms and 900 into 4. I had Thiel 7.2s before the 3.7s. The 7.2s were a harder load. I had to build a custom amp stand with fans for the Bryston and the Modwright still got very hot but did not shut down into protection mode like the Bryston. The Modwright got a drop less hot with the 3.7s,
So all I can tell you from real world experiences (and the room in my old house had 19 ft. ceilings and opened into other spaces) about problems or lack of driving my Thiel speakers. When I sent inquires before and after getting the 14BSST lightly used they danced around my questions. They also made a 20 amp version of the 14BSST (for low impedance speakers but I just had a separate (on its own breaker and receptacle) 15 amp circuit for the Bryston. So that's should be a clue that in my situation with a huge room (probably over 7,000 cu ft) the 14BSST 15 amp version was not capable of handling the impedance.
So in the real world in my system (Modwright LS 36.5 DM preamp) all I can tell you is what sounds better (and not my opinion as I've had several other people over who agree) and drives my speakers better. The Modwright amp would get hot enough that it would hurt touching it even though the heatsinks were inside the case. If one goes to hifishark, there's a used Modwright listed for an asking price of $3,150 including PayPal fees and the amp is a current model that now lists for $11k. I've noted before that audophiles, manufacturers and retailers tend to stick to conclusions about new technology (and it's not unique to audio) well past the actual performance of this newer technology. The guy I sold my modded dual mono IcePower amp was buying it to power woofers and had also previously owned the Modwright amp and would probably have substantially similar conclusions about its sound vs. what I have (and it's in a different system in a different room).
So all I would advice anyone is to take advantage of any trial period (and break in the amp), assuming it has one and give it a try. You might be surprised. I was shocked with my first Class D stereo IcePower amp. A friend asked about Class D and last I heard (a few years prior) them they had gotten better but I wasn't sure if they had come of age. I told him I'd get one and use it in a secondary system. I broke it in using a secondary system of Ohm Microwalsh Tall speakers (augmentated by a Rel Strata III sub, a Meitner MA-1 DAC and an Odyssey Candela preamp. I had a Bryston 3BST amp in the system. I was in shock out of the box what a huge difference there was vs. the 3BST and even more amazed when I put it in the main system.
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@cascadesphil, but how much power are these amps delivering into 2 Ohms and at what levels of distortion?
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"If the amp is not specifically spec'd into 2 Ohms, it 's not very likely that it's capable at that load." That's not true 100% of the time (and I realize you indicated 'not very likely'). For example, the IcePower AS series (1200AS) indicates minimum inpedance of 2.7 ohms. That derives from the pro market where someone may be piggy backing three 8 ohm speakers. I had both an IcePower 1200AS stereo and dual mono amps and they drove (and sounded better too) my Thiel 3.7s than my Modwright KWA150SE in my system. There are two magazine reviews. One measured the minimum impedance at 2.4 ohms (at 125Hz) and the other at 2.3 ohms (at 120Hz) and both measurements indicated the impedance remains between 2 and 3 ohms throughout most of the audio band (the Stereophile plout shows something around 75Hz all the way up to around 20,000 below 4 ohms). I now have a modded LSA Voyager amp and it was no issues either. I also for a bit (since my system is an integrated A/V system) had a Class D Audio mini GaN amp driving the 3.7s for HT.
Peachtree Audio has a 4 ohm rating and indicates "The amplifier in the nova300 is capable of driving an extremely wide range of speakers with impedances as low as 2.5Ω and as high as 16Ω" So that should be fine with the 2.4s (as long as there is not something else crazy in the chain such as speaker wire causing an issue with that minium impedance - many moons ago I had an issue with a particular brand of speaker wire driving Mirage SM-3s which were not a hard load). The Yamaha noted by the OP, like many receivers, has an impedance switch for lower impedance speakers. I converted my front bedroom system to strictly a UHD HT (vs. an integrated A/V system) and the Onkyo receiver has a setting for lower impedance speakers (the only thing rated less than 8 ohms I use in the 9 channels is the Ohm Microwalsh Talls I have for front Atmos speakers and the room isn't big so I just left the settings as normal).
My 3.7s are in a large room that opens into other spaces and I can play it loud enough with no distortion and no issues. Sometimes, when my friend comes over during the week he asks me to lower the volume a drop.
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@bobscliff, the CS 2.4's impedance drops to below 3 Ohms. You're not likely to find many amps spec'd to the 2.4's specific minimum impedance. One might find some amps spec'd to 2 Ohms. If you want to get what that the 2.4's are capable of you'll want an amp spec'd to a minimum of 400 Watts into 2 Ohms. If the amp is not specifically spec'd into 2 Ohms, it 's not very likely that it's capable at that load. Being "stable" into a load only means that the amp won't go into oscillation into that load. It is not a guarantee of performance.
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That's definitely food for thought, thank you. It looks like that Nova 300 can power anything. Those are great deals on the refurbs, thanks!
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If you can stretch the budget a drop, there's a lightly used Peachtree Audio nova300 integrated on Audiogon that is listed as 2 months old in mint condition for $1,250. If you can get a few bucks off, it is rated at 300W into 8 ohms and 450W into 4. The built in DAC can do double DSD and 2384kHz PCM. There's reviews out there such as:
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btw - accessories4less.com sells authorized refurbs and it is $300 cheaper than Amazon. It apparently has an impedance switch for speakers between 4 and 6 ohms which hints at the fact that it is not considered ideal for lower impedance speakers.Stereophile measured the minimum inpedance at 2.73 ohms at 600Hz and "stays significantly below 4 ohms from 100Hz to 50kHz, and there is a difficult combination of 4.5 ohms magnitude and –45° electrical phase angle at 80Hz. Thiel CS2.4 owners should make sure they have a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier to drive this speaker."
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They don't give any specs into 4 ohms -
and it doesn't look like a high current amp. So I would guess unless you don't listen to dynamic music in a small room, I'm not sure you would be happy with it -
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Hey! So I inherited a pair of CS 2.4s that I love, along with a NAD C275BEE amp that I think is dying. The right channel keeps cutting out and only comes back after power cycling.
Short of looking into repairing that amp, I was thinking of getting a new integrated amp, hopefully with a DAC. I know the Thiels are picky in terms of ohms, but I'm trying to keep the cost under $1000, and the Yamaha A-S701BL looked good to me. Open to Ebaying a good amp too, but prefer new.
Will this amp be able to power the CS 2.4s adequately? They stay in a small NYC apartment room so they're not maxing out their volume. Thanks for any input!
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Thosb
i wanted to circle back around on the ModWright query.
I believe that the Integrated amp would be a contender at 200 wpc.
Nice current delivery as well.
Happy Listening!
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CS5 electrolytic crossover caps. Whoever spotted them was correct, despite the promo stating 'all film caps'. There a few, always shunts to common and always bypassed by the yellow 1uF styrene/ tin foil cap. There is also an iron core inductor in the subwoofer feed. I recall that layout space was the determining factor for that huge board. Outboarding that board would probably be required to allow upgrade of those electrolytics with film caps. Those speakers are 30 years old, nearing their hypothetical service life. None are in sensitive / dangerous positions.
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ydjames
Good to see you again. Thank You for the Benchmark LA4 confirmation with Thiel CS 2.7 loudspeakers.
Happy Listening!
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tomthiel
Thank You for the follow up on Hot Rod garage II and Studio space.
Happy Listening!
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Am a very satisfied and happy owner of Benchmark's LA4 Preamp and two AHB2 in bridged mono mode, driving the Thiel CS2.7 !
This matching gave me the cleanliness, quietness, transparency, musical detail, and 'right speed' of the music I listen to.
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@tomthiel, I was suggesting that if the Benchmark’s are capable of delivering power into lower impedances that they rate their amplifiers into such impedances with what ever distortion level they choose so long as it doesn’t exceed 1%.. If the distortions levels are lower; kudos.
While flickering is better than shutting down, such flickering suggesting pending overload doesn’t exactly lend itself to a relaxed listening session.
In the mean time, for those that are enjoying their Benchmark’s on their Thiels, carry on, enjoy! For those on the fence about such a pairing, please consider the limitations and options.
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Regarding protection: I learned that the flickering lights are merely warnings, not actual activation. That’s why ’it’ sounds so transparent - it’s not actually going into protection.
If protection is activated, a restart is required. That's happened twice, once by intentionally pushing it hard and the other time due to a cable short-circuit, where I was glad to have it.
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@unsound - thank you again. I hear you and am eager to hear about other options. I came to Benchmark via recommendations from high-end recording folks, tried it and like it. I can't explain how or why it outperforms its expectations.
I did connect a dot or two around the power spec idiosyncrasy. Due to its feed-forward error correction topology, the amp simply can't function beyond the limits of that brick wall. It can't be rated at 1% distortion because it can't produce power with 1% distortion.
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