Thiel Owners

Thanks Fellas, I'll keep my eyes open for some 2.7, 3.7 . they sometimes show up on craigslist in Twin Cities.
I noticed a lot of you like maggies, As I sit here 5 miles from factory although I loved the 4 prs I had I just had to give up on them as dynamic range was not there for Symphonic . Loud ain't the same thing .

Prof,
How far apart do you have your 3.7's, and how close are you? I have my CS6's 8ft apart and I'm 12 feet back. I've tried other positions, but this seems to suit me. Speakers are about 56" out from rear wall.

jafant...

The real impression will be made when the 3.6's arrive. As for now with the 3.5's the Neo strikes me as being slightly warmer in overall tonality, perhaps slightly more emphatic in the bass region. Again, this being compared with the Pass X150.5/B. A. T. VK3i separates setup I had until recent. To say that I've barely broken the Neo in is an understatement - they suggest a more extended period than I've been able to muster thus far.  

The 3.5's require separates to be fully enjoyed with the bass eq employed.  I had a Primare A32 integrated that posed me with the same issue I have with the Neo - can't employ the bass eq due to lack of inputs. Nonetheless, once I raised the volume to a higher level than I normally listen at the Thiels were quite happy, 
immediately revealing how good the Neo is overall and, as I've said before, how Thiels reveal. 

The Pass attained the same sort of definition at a lower volume level methinks, but this is not for me an issue where I'll be moaning again about selling off a beloved amplifier. I have to believe that when the Neo is broken in I'll have less to think about comparatively and more to enjoy sonically/musically. Obviously, Thiel will take a lot of responsibility for this - they're just so damned good. 

I am so utterly familiar with Ginger Baker's "Cyril Davis" off of the album "Why?" that I use it as a reference point for evaluating my stuff. (There is also "Cyril Davies" off of "Falling Off The Roof" which is essentially the same tune performed differently.)  Being so attuned to either cut I believe is a fair method of reaching an opinion.  The Neo didn't miss a note - albeit at a slightly higher volume.  It was all present. 

Another point of pleasure is the size of the Neo. I no longer have to wrestle that 60 pound Pass when I tinker with cables, etc. I've increased the weight of the speakers however, from 70 pounds of the 3.5's to 107 pounds with the soon-to-arrive 3.6's. C'est la vie...I've actually purchased a hand-truck, covered it with insulation foam to position them!

Is that a "mod"?

Anyone else here with a lifestyle accommodation to keep Thiel rocking?

oblgny-

how about posting some listening thoughts/impressions on your new Simaudio Neo?

Happy Listening!

saffron...

Since I listen to a fairly wide assortment of music I've purchased loudspeakers that I assume will be able to faithfully reproduce any genre I toss at 'em.  Such is not necessarily a truism, and lately with very few bricks and mortar hifi shops remaining, almost impossible to audition. 

Within my sometimes constrained/free wheeling budget the only speakers that continue to keep my interest are Thiels, and Maggies - in that order.  I've heard a few different Wilsons, B&W,
Focal and a few others that are well above my budget, but when I consider their price find it difficult to justify the expense. One cannot find a superior value in a loudspeaker than Thiel. 

So so far as their ability to handle multiple genres of music well, I've yet to find another manufacturer that does everything so well that by comparison makes it so damn difficult/impossible to part with. A little Aaron Copland, some Son Volt, perhaps an hour with The Hold Steady, followed with an extended visit with Thelonious Monk, finishing up with Herbie Hancock's Joni recording...

Cool beans!

Happy Listening!

@schubert Well, I guess if you consider a Jim Thiel-designed speaker to be an extremely accurate transducer of an input signal, then they should be fine with any kind of music, with consideration given to a particular model's frequency limitation.

I chose Thiels decades ago, without knowing any of the technical aspects of the speakers, at the time.  They were the most convincing with recorded acoustic instruments.  e.g. guitars, violins, and piano.  They just sounded "right", where everything else was "not quite right".

Are real Thiels good on Symphonic Music ? I've played with about other usual suspect in the price range and am certain phase/ time is critical. 
That'a why I use either single-drivers or sloped 1 cap crossovers with transmission lines . Never heard a Thiel !

It is great to see so much activity here on this wonderful Spring Saturday!

Happy Listening!

Good to see you- robinbarbour-

Happy Listening!

oblgny-

Alon is no Thiel!  Happy Listening!

prof-

do not sell!  Happy Listening!

FWIW, I hope to have time Monday or Tuesday to post my listening impressions of some speakers that I've considered for replacing the Thiels.

robinbarbour,

Believe me, I know!  That's one big sticking point for me, the fact you can't seem to get these things anymore.  But if I really want to solve the problem I'm dealing with, I would have to sell the Thiels in order to afford anything that comes close to their sound (but smaller).

oblgny
That is a coincidence...My previous surround system had all Alon speakers. Very nice sounding. Smooth and open....but not Thiels as you said.I still have all of them and need to sell eventually. I have the Lotus Elite fronts (Saloon door looking) with LCR Grand center and Alon Petite rears. They were very enjoyable. 

prof - Don't sell!
They don't make them anymore and it will be rare to find again. You will surely regret the sale and try to find another pair. THERE AREN'T ANY MORE.

Whilst I am awaiting the arrival of my 3.6's and the fellow member to pick up my 3.5's I have been working a pair of Acarian Alon ll's just for the heck of it - got 'em purty cheap from a bricks and mortar retailer/occasional seller here on the site. 

Fortunately I had a pair of Transparent bi-wire cables in my inventory/snake pit of cables left over from some previous 'speriment, so I hooked them up ...

They'd been in the store for over a year and they were a little dusty, dull-looking, but only needed a little cleaning and TLC that included about 6 coats of tung oil.  They show their age but now look swell. 

The store owner related that the woofer was designed to emulate the old Advent woofer - a very cool piece of history. 

They're a suitable stop gap between the Thiels coming and going.  They're definitely not "bright" sonically, the bass is tighter than I had anticipated, the mids are very well defined if not
as well defined as a Thiel - but they ain't Thiel so...

They're fun. They're temporary.  I'll probably toss em up here on the site when my 3.6 get here - at the same price I paid for them. 

Listening to the Thiel 3.7s again last night...boy I don’t know if I can give these things up! It’s amazing the degree to which you can dial in a speaker (especially like the 3.7) to one’s taste - far field, near field, toed in, toed out.

As I’ve said the 3.7’s wide, even dispersion allows me to have them very wide apart, quite close to me, and faced almost straight ahead. The balance I get is lush and warm, with an utterly massive width and depth to the soundstage, yet with perfectly dense, focused imaging of all the voices and instruments across that span. Anyone who ever doubted that the Thiels could sound warm, lush and inviting hasn’t heard what they can do when set up that way. I listened to some live Everything But The Girl - they do lots of quiet, solemn music with one or two guitars being played, and the voices and acoustic/electric guitars were just astonishingly warm, human and clear.   I played some Joanna Newsome (talk about an acquired taste! Her voice! But that harp playing!) and her harp simply "appears" a out 4 feet behind the speakers, as if she has just beamed down into my room to play for me.  At least in my experience, certain instances like this are probably the most tactile sonic reproduction I've ever heard from an audio system. (I'm not saying other systems can't do it - of course they can - but simply in my own experience with many speaker systems, and hearing many show and store systems, it's among the best I've heard with certain recordings).

I have an audiophile pal - who writes for an online audio mag - who said the first time he heard the Thiel 3.7s at an audio show it sent him running from the room - too bright and aggressive! But when he comes over to listen to my 3.7s he is thoroughly pleased by completely smooth and gorgeous they sound. I’d told him that (due to ergonomic issues I’ve mentioned earlier) I may be looking to replace them with a smaller speaker, but after he heard a couple of cuts played on the 3.7s he turned to me incredulous "And you intend to get better sound than THIS...how???"

I told him, I don’t intend to get better sound. Not for anything remotely close to the price and I’ll probably never have better sound than I have with my current Thiel set up. That’s just a pill I’ll have to swallow (IF I sell them...)

jon_5912-

Good to see you again. I know shortly after JT died,  many long-term dealers/retailers quit placing orders on new speakers.  (2) such operations that I know about are Goldprint Audio in NC and Audio Alternative in Atlanta (now HiFi Buys of Atlanta).

I spoke w/ these guys a few years ago and there does not seem to be any interest in stocking the post-JT offerings. Hope this helps you.

Happy Listening!

Very nice! michaeljbrown-

Reach out and touch Rob at Thiel in Kentucky.  Hope he is able to assist you w/ the refinish.  $2K is an outstanding price!

Keep me posted and Happy Listening!

The 2.4's were on Audiogon under "new today" and I snapped them up for 2k. They are a one owner pair, cherry, in very nice condition. The speaker caps are not even dented. It'll be fun to compare them to the CS6's. 
Does anyone know if Rob is still refinishing thiels? At this price, I could even consider getting them refinished..

One week in and loving the 1.5's   Looking for 2.4's, 2.7's or 3.7's. If anyone has any leads.

Thanks,
Greg

michaeljbrown-

nice score! how did you find the CS 2.4 speakers?  Did you buy from a dealer/retailer?  If these are your final pair of speakers, you are going out on a very high note!

Happy Listening!

I'm curious if anyone has bought or knows anyone who has bought a pair of post Jim Thiel speakers from Thiel.  There is a 4 store chain here in Chicago that was a Thiel dealer for decades but they aren't any more.  Does anybody know if the new speakers are selling at all?  Thiel has quite a few dealers listed on their website.

Well I just picked up a pair of very nice cherry 2.4's for my HT setup! I had sold my previous pair after wrongfully decding they were too much speaker for the LR mains. I was left with powerplanes to go with an MCR1 center and two PowerPoint rears. The powerplanes were outmatched and overshadowed by the big MCR1, and I was getting too much center. I"m looking forward to enjoying soundtracks again.
My 2 channel setup has CS6's matched with a pair of Krell FPB 250 monoblocks. My stereo room is large, but complicated by a fireplace on the right wall. I like to sit about 12' back, with the 6's about 7 1/2 feet apart. The back walls about 58" and sidewalls more than that. I'm fooling with various sources, including a Thorens long base modded by Vinyl Nirvana, and an old Classe DAC 1 & PS Audio Lambda transport; I'm starting to stream Tidal via Sonos Connect through the DAC 1, as well. Tidal has Hi Fi streaming, and its real convenient.
I got the 2.4's instead of a new DAC, so I guess I'll continue to upscale the HT by tinkering with the SS1. No, I don't have any speakers but Thiel; except for the year I spent recently with the big Onken Altecs, Thiels are all I've ever owned.
As I begin to downsize, the sweet spot Thiel 2.4's may end up as my last and final pair..

Happy Friday! All -

Agreed oblgny-

tonally correct and timbre are very well demonstrated w/ this brand of Speakers. Jim Thiel had a phenomenal gift. He gave us music lovers his talented gift.

Happy Listening!

For the record, Dave represents Clarity Cap OEM.

Good to see you- audioman58

like member dgarretson (Dave) here, do you represent another "cap" manufacturer?  Modder? Either way it s good to learn that there are (2) cross-over experts on the 'Gon.

Happy Listening!

prof...

THAT'S IT!!!

Your statement on Thiel's bass being tonally correct is a descriptive that has eluded me from day one, felt, heard, but never able to put the words together. 

I've been in the wine business for 36 years. About 30 years ago we were tasting some 1986 Burgundies, everyone tasting, writing notes, slurping down oysters, discussing each in an open forum. I was something of a newbie then, perhaps six years in the biz. We were on a particularly aggressive label when one of the people put forth a comment regarding its bouquet, stating that it had notes of "sauerkraut".  THAT'S IT!!!

For years before that there was that SOMETHING my schnozola was communicating to my brain but my brain couldn't process into words. While I couldn't find the words to describe that, I looked for it in all the white Burgundies I would sample. It wasn't hot-dog sauerkraut, but a wisp note of something elemental in the mix.  That too became a reference point for me when tasting/buying white burgundies. I look for it any time I taste Chardonnay, even California ones. 

This is waaaaaay beside the point of what this thread/forum has had to offer, but holy shite!  That statement of being "tonally" correct was a pleasant revelation for me, as well as one that accurately describes the overall sonics that make Thiel so desirable,  and perhaps, offer to those thinking about a pair of legacy models just how damn fine they are. 

Sauerkraut for everyone!

The biggest short coming of the Thiele has always been the Xover parts used .
I have assisted in parts upgrade which takes the sometimes thin sounding 
Speaker with Excellent potential to Transformed such as One of my favorites
Mundorf Silver oil capacitors on the tweeter. Path audio my far the best most accurate resistors under 1% distortion. Without breaking the bank 
Mids Many top brands Duelund ,Mundorf, Audyn,Clarity, and and quality inductors 
Such as  Jantzen.  Very much overlooked and the Majority of companies under $10k uses Solen ,sub standard in my mind. Go to 
Humble homemade hifi - capacitor test,a great cookbook for caps.

prof

I enjoyed re-reading and visiting your thread on Thiel speakers.
The CS 3.7 certainly benefits from mono block power amps.

Happy Listening!

Much Thanks! prof

Happy Listening!

jafant,

Understandable.  We all have our own criteria. I personally like a near field, or close to near field listening set up because I love being enveloped in the sound, I get the most realistic sound staging, and to my ears usually the most natural, relaxed and realistic timbral qualities to voices and instruments (since near field reduces the influence of the room).
But more distant set ups do tend to sound more dynamic and lifelike in that way, so I can see the appeal in how you prefer to listen.

jonandfamily,

It's been a long time since I heard the 3.6s - or the CS6 for that matter - but what I remember is the 3.6s having just a bit more "shine" to the upper frequencies that could be a bit detached to piercing, whereas the CS6 had a smoother, more sophisticated sound.  No doubt the coaxial design had something to do with it.   But I also remember some mild issues with the CS6, a bit of hollowness that could creep in in the high midrange/low tweeter frequencies, especially dependant upon seating height/position.  It could add a sort of thinning, cardboard/papery sound to instruments when they travelled in to that range (e.g. high register woodwinds).  But it wasn't frequent or bad enough to be a bummer.  The 3.7s have none of that, I was happy to find. 

Thanks for your input prof. I'm not sure why I thought you had the CS3.6s. I'm curious why you preferred the CS6 over the 3.6s...do you think it was the coaxial design? I have always wondered what the CS7.2 would sound like with my setup. Jafant, check my virtual system. I use older Synergistic Research cables and I'm satisfied with them. I love tubes with the Thiels. I can listen for hours with zero fatigue. 

Happy Listening! All

Interesting prof,

I would need a room, at least, 20x20 to even begin to enjoy a pair of CS 3.7 loudspeakers.  Take into consideration the type of power amp required to drive them to proper effect.  My only demo was w/ an Anthem 225 integrated. To my surprise, that amp did drive those speakers as loud as I wanted. I tend to listen on the loud side of things. 

Happy Listening!

Good to see you again- jonandfamily

are you in Alabama as well? I can report that the ARC Ref5 SE (at its price-point) is the very best tubed pre-amp currently.  What other gear, including cabling, is in your system?

Happy Listening!

Always good to see you- oblgny
my pleasure helping you w/ Transparent cabling. It is a very fine company backed w/ very fine customer service. Cannot go wrong.

Happy Listening!

Very nice! prof

I will re-fresh my memory on your link. Happy Listening!

jonandfamily,

I never had the 3.6s, though I heard them many times "back in the day."
I preferred the CS6's over the 3.6, and had the CS6's for quite a while.
(They worked well in my small room; the 3.7s work even better).

Nothing I miss about any previous Thiel's over the 3.7s.  Jim's final designs somehow managed to keep all the great things we love about Thiel speakers - the aliveness, believability of transients, instrumental timbre, etc, but increasing coherency and smoothness in the upper mid/treble, for an even more organic sound.  It's seems ironic to me that Thiel over the years has had the reputation for ruthlessly revealing and being bright.  I have very sensitive ears - including Tinnitus - so if a speaker is bright or hashy sounding at all, I have real problems.  The 3.7s (especially combined with my CJ amps) have been about the smoothest, most fatigue free sound I've ever had in my room.  I can listen for hours without my ears getting too tired or sensitive.

BTW, as I mentioned, despite my adoration for my 3.7s I may have to sell them for ergonomic reasons.  Not that they don't work perfectly in my smallish room (13 x 15), but rather because I have other speakers in there
taking up room for home theater, I have to place the 3.7s right at the room opening, which makes it awkward getting in and out, among other things.
I really need a smaller speaker only in that regard.   Sonically, they are as close to perfectly balanced as I've heard in my room or anywhere else.

I have really enjoyed following this discussion over the last year. I have been more passive with opinions because I recognize that all of our senses are clearly subjective.

oblgny...

I'm reflecting back on our exchange on this discussion 8/31/16. Since I have owned 3.6s for over 6 years and have never heard the 3.5s, I will be waiting in anticipation about your opinions regarding the comparison. The only change that I have made the last couple of years is selling my Audio Research Ref 5 and buying a preowned 5SE in December here on Audiogon. I'm still very content with my current setup.

prof...

I also followed your discussion with the change from 3.6s to 3.7s, since we have a lot in common. I also have a fairly small listening room and sit about 7-8 feet from my 3.6s. I have been contemplating moving to the 3.7s myself if I can find a pair close-by and affordable. Prof, are there any attributes of the 3.6s you miss that you're not getting with the 3.7s?

Thanks, Jon

p.s By the way, there is a pair of 3.6s for sale locally here on Craigslist in Birmingham allegedly from an original owner, but without the boxes. https://bham.craigslist.org/ele/6053373347.html

oblgny,

I thoroughly agree about Thiel's and bass.  I've enthused about this often.  It is the most tonally controlled bass I've ever experienced.
When a stand up bass plays there is none of that added bit of blur/bloom at the bottom that you hear with most speakers.  You hear that vibrating string and soundboard resonating - and only that - all the way to the floor as it were.  And all the bass energy remains focused right where the instrument is coming from, making even low bass just as holographically placed as any other part of the spectrum.  They are such an achievement!

golferboy...

I'm awaiting delivery on a pair of 3.6's after having two pairs,  at different junctures,  of 3.5's which as some folks here already know,  became my reference point for loudspeakers in general.  (I gifted my first pair to my nephew.)  I've just sold my 3.5's to make room for the 3.6's.  I'm literally watching the calendar daily waiting for the truck to arrive.  Hell,  I've even purchased a hand truck/dolly to get them into the house.  

And to think I have said that moving my 3.5's around once in a while is a pain in the ass...

SInce many of us suffer the same fate of having so few bricks and mortar high fidelity retailers around now,  I have purchased all of my Thiels used,  without audition.  The first time I hooked up my 2.3's I was so impressed that I literally stopped in my tracks.  Then the first pair of 3.5's became available - involving a 400 mile round trip to fetch them - and I was doubly impressed.  I sold those to get a pair of Maggies - which I also happen to hold in very high regard - eventually deciding that Thiels,  in general,  are Maggies with bass.  And not just any old bass, PROPER bass.  Musical bass,  with all the mids and high definition that Thiel and Magnepan excel in.  I am a zealot,  a Thielist,  I've drunk the kool-aid and can't help myself.

Recently I came to the conclusion that all of my purchasing/selling of associated equipment was detracting from my enjoyment of music,  or at least the simple act of tossing something on and enjoying it without nitpicking my system.  (Until a week or so ago it was a Pass Labs X150.5 SS amplifier,  a Balanced Audio Technology VK3i tubed preamplifier,  a Primare phono stage...and a few things I had lying about,  a CJ amp,  a Threshold amp...)  IMHO Pass Labs is a sweet match for Thiels.   Even though I doubt I ever came even remotely close to flexing the amp's 300 watt into 4 ohm capability,  the sound was incredible.  Clean,  articulate,  just like the Thiels.

I am expecting much of the same from the 3.6's.  I'll be driving them with a Simaudio Neo 340i integrated,  capable of 200 watts per channel into 4 ohms which,  methinks,  will be sufficient for appreciating the 3.6's.  I listen at VERY conservative levels.  The meter on the Pass rarely,  if ever,  even budged a smidgen.  Thus far the Neo has proven to be a pretty damn good amp with the 3.5's, perhaps not as "analytical" as the Pass but still within the parameters that I've come to gauge my equipment by.  

For the record,  and thanks to Jafant and unsound for their input on everything Thiel,  I went to all Transparent cabling a while back and have found that to be a great match.  ("Synergy", as jafant likes to term it.)  Hopefully I will settle down for a while and let the 3.6's earn their keep with the Neo - although,  as the past has taught me,  THAT's pretty unlikely.  The one thing I AM certain of is that the 3.6's will become my new reference for loudspeakers.  Whether or not I embark on an integrated amplfier shoot-out in the coming months is perhaps another post's story.

Besides,  that could be fun in this thread.

Any comments to care to share with your 3.6's is very welcome.

Happy listening  -  Thiels Reveal!

jafant,

I went into lots of detail about the Thiels and (my) tube amps in this thread a while back:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/thiel-with-quot-warmest-quot-midrange-2-7-vs-3-7-vs-older?hig...

My speaker cables are still 10 awg Belden cable ;-)

Happy Listening!