Thiel Owners

oblgny,
Wow, your statement of THIELS are Maggies with more bass... that's a very sage comment. When I worked for him, we discussed design in depth many times... he would say, Electrostatic/Panel speakers were the best... that sound, (cabinetless) was his goal. Man, you really nailed it.

Larry

Guys any of you going to the Munich show next month ?
I'll be there friday and saturday.
If some of you are going and want to meet let me know.

Good to see you-  Ifssbn1

how do you like the CS 1.5 w/ Nordost/Anti-cable combo?

Happy Listening!

Thiel 1.5, Prima Luna tubes, OppoSE, Nordost & Anti Cables- paradise. Hope to have 3.6 (or 2.4) some day, while waiting for a donation of Quads.

Additionally,
I dig Jazz, especially, the Trio and Quartet setting!

Happy Listening!

Good to see you- pops, nkonor

Happy Listening!

Thanks! for the update- William.

Happy Listening!

Nokonor...  

Yeah. Even though the eq was relatively unobtrusive physically, just having one more cord to plug in kinda bugged me - but the sound was impressive nonetheless.  If I had the space to store them I would, you know, "just in case..."

Plus the 3.6's give me more latitude in finding a suitable integrated without the eq which often can't work with one - I like the setup   

Cabinet, Drivers, Crossover and NO EQUALIZER. Speaker position will reward you.
Monoblocks will do more than you hoped for.

Enjoy enjoy your new speaks!  My fav thiel, I also have CS6 and prefer the 3.6 for all the reasons you mention.   

I'll be discerning the date of manufacture the next time I look to swap cables or something, to move these 107 pound Easter Island totems right now is just too much to ask of my back at the moment!

By far and away the midrange on these vs the 3.5's is significantly different,  the treble is perhaps slightly less "etched" as well; mind you that neither opinion is anywhere close to being a negative.  Voices in particular are almost startlingly lifelike - just listened to some Simon and Garfunkel as though hearing some things all anew. Methinks the slightly larger cabinetry - 7 inches taller, 4 inches deeper at the base, might have something to do with the midrange emphasis over the 3.5's. Obviously, the drivers and crossover difference does as well. 

As did the 3.5's, the 3.6's absolutely excel with jazz.  I like trio and quartets for the most part. I've been digging deep into Monk as well.  

I'm thinking monoblocks already...

Kidding!  Enjoy the weekend!

Happy Friday! ALL -

Thanks! for sharing- jonandfamily

20 years is a long time for a pair of speakers. I certainly would like to hear your system anytime.

Happy Listening!

If you email Thiel through their website with your serial numbers, they will tell you the day they were produced. My 3.6s were completed on 5/22/1996. It's a testament to their quality that they are in such good physical and mechanical condition after 21 years.

jonandfamily...
 
$1200 seems to be the price around where the 3.6's hover - and usually in lesser condition than the ones I just got.  That figure was pretty much my budget, or at least what I was willing to spend. When these came up I simply said "what the hell, stop waiting around  for the perfect storm" and pay the $&?!:@ shipping!

It's comforting to know that my ears are somewhat in tune with a musician's, especially when my ability to play an instrument has been at best a futile pursuit. I could lose my left arm and not miss it. 

That being said, I have fancied myself something of an artist for all of my life, yet another pursuit that has found me earning a living doing something else. When my girlfriend hears music she dances, when I hear music I think. She starts singing along, I listen to the interaction between players, wondering where the tune is heading, often amazed at the difference between where I'd be going and where they went. Good stuff. 

My first pair of Thiels were the 2.2's, and I was spoiled henceforth since then. I started buying here in 2013 and, goodness gracious, haven't been a sane person since. I discovered Thiel here, Pass Labs..the list is still growing.  With each addition and the subsequent subtractions I've appreciated more and more the difficulty in manufacturing a vision. I don't know a mosfet from a misfit, but I know what I like. 

I've gotta shut this off now - early morning busy day tomorrow...

oblgny,

Your first impressions of the 3.6s sound just like my first and last impression. I'm a bass player (1977 Fender Jazz Bass) and I have never heard a speaker or speaker/sub combo that gave me such a "real" and uncolored bass sound while maintaining the precise mids and highs.

You say the sound is in front of the speakers. I have my 3.6s about 3 feet from the back wall faced straight forward without toe-in and I hear the sound either at or behind the speakers.

Great deal for that price. I got mine for $1200, but was lucky to have an Audiogon seller only 90 miles away so no shipping. It still amazes me that I spent less on my speakers than any other component in my setup.

I look forward to more impressions over the next days!

More kudos to the guys at Saturday Audio - the speakers were over-the-top well packed, almost to the point of overkill. 

Save for some very minor slackening of the grill cloth and some signs of being moved on the bases they are in perfect condition.  Not even a hair line scratch on the cabinets.  Can't find a flaw.  Amazing good condition. 

First impression?  Believe it or not I find them to be slightly more emphatic with the low mids and bass,  the highs are excellent. 

Heck, they're Thiels. 

My reference tunes were all there - I even listened at a slightly higher volume than I normally do and I felt the air move with the bass like I hadn't with the 3.5's. I also find the bass a little "tighter" than the 3.5's, but "real" and uncoloured,  as were the 3.5's. 

I have no doubts that the Neo will be capable of driving them without stressing since my listening level is very conservative. All in all thus far I would offer that these certainly have a more sonic presence than the 3.5's, the sound seems to find a space about 2-3 feet in front of them. 

 $1099 plus shipping of $350 - maybe my best purchase yet new or used. 

More to follow with extended play over the forthcoming holiday weekend!

oblgny 
We will wait in anticipation for your first impressions! I myself have not had the opportunity to hear he 3.6 and was always wondering of comparison to other Thiels since rated so highly by Stereophile mag. All different drivers and no eq, so not same as you have been listening to.
Maybe best of all - No break in period! Immediate enjoyment after positioning... : )

Way to go! William,

very good of you to give a shout out to (The) Saturday Audio Exchange.
This place has a niche' for obtaining and acquiring Thiel speakers as I see their ads on a frequent basis.

Happy Listening!

Very nice! oblgny-

after 22 years in the same space, you will know which configuration is best.
Happy Listening!

PS SIDENOTE...

Just to illustrate how very cool this site can be and how useful this particular thread continues to be,  I have to relate a short back story on my purchase of the 3.6's from Saturday Audio Exchange in Chicago.

Within a day of purchasing them I received a message from a fellow member who is fortunate enough to reside within an hour's drive from the store.  He spoke with the owner who related to him the pair's previous ownership,  further offering that they were in better condition than "as pictured" in the classified,  adding that I was getting a fine pair.

Unsolicited.  Out of the blue.  One Thiel owner to another.

Man,  this kool-aid is addictive.

Woohoo - my 3.6's are arriving between 9:00 and 5:00 pm today via UPS freight.

As much as has been said about placing loudspeakers in general,  I got out a tape measure just to see how mine have been placed since I moved into this house 22 years ago.  It's a difficult room with a ceiling that slopes from 9 feet to 17 feet at the apex,  radiators all along the exterior walls,  one wall three feet from the left speaker,  the other wall thirteen feet from the right.  The floor is laminate with an area rug tossed in the center.

I don't have another option to place the speakers.  The left wall also has an air conditioner stuck in it.  Not only is the room a pain in the ass to furnish,  its a pain in the ass to position the stereo in the best place possible.  Trust me,  I've tried.

Anyway,  my speakers will be roughly eight feet apart and about twenty four inches from the rear wall.  I can't bring them out any further because it looks stupid,  and these things simply beg not to be moved via protests from my spine.  I've always had the drivers positioned just in front of the equipment cabinet's depth.  It's pretty much all I can do considering the physical space.

Much to my surprise and amazingly poor sense of space I listen some fourteen feet away from the speakers.  I have yet to find toe-in a necessity since the Thiels throw an impressive sound stage to begin with;  a few others I've had,  especially Maggies that require a GPS and a periodic table of the elements to position,  definitely benefitted from toe-in.

I'm like a kid waiting for the ice cream truck...

Another +vote for Jon Soderberg.  Bill Thalmann comes into my mind as well.

Happy Listening!

Yes! zkga

Threshold, Coda and Pass Labs share a very similar blood-line.
I have not had an opportunity to audition Coda power amps?
Can you guys suggest a dealer/retailer?

I have been quite pleased w/ all of the banter on our fave speakers over the weekend.  Keep up the discussion!

Happy Listening!

That would be a nice score on a Threshold power amp- unsound.
Nice catch.  And yes, these amps can still be serviced and maintained by many Audio shops.

Happy Listening!

Right On! unsound-

Happy Listening!

Nice counter points- prof

I can only speak to the newer (not vintage models) in that they do require tons of current!  Otherwise, you are spot on.

Happy Listening!

Jon Soderberg of Vintage Amp Repair,  as well as the current owners of Threshold can service these older Thresholds.

That could be a smoking deal for someone on a high current amp!  

The guys at Coda Technologies may be able to help with service if needed. Not sure on this, but they were part of the Threshold team in the mid 80's 

I know nothing about this particular unit, or of the feedbackless seller, but if one could get an in house audition and pick up directly, this looks like a potential killer bargain, even if by chance it might need some maintenance, for some Thiel owner.:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-threshold-s500-a-ab-amplifier-2017-04-10-vintage-equipm...
FWIW, it has more Class A output than Nelson Pass's later similarly powered Pass Labs X250's. Will work with many ss and tube pres (Audio Research is often cited).

Prof, you raise an interesting point about listener's height and seating distance; one that I raised to Jim Thiel many years ago (back when the CS 5's were released). Jim told me that at distances of 8' or greater that the sonic waves were so large that critical distance became realistically less important. He also said (surprisingly enough, to me at least) that studies demonstrated that most listeners regardless of height had their ears measured to within relatively similar distances to the floor (I seem to remember approximately 3"(?) variance and typically 37-39"(?) ear to floor distance, but I'm really not certain of either).
 In that the vast majority of Jim Thiel's work (and amongst those of perhaps a very, very small number of other speaker designers) appears to have been towards mastering time, it seems quite rational to me, to do as much as possible to allow those efforts to flourish. I seem to recall that Stereophile apologized in almost every Thiel review  for not being able to test them at appropriate distances, and at appropriate distances they expected the measurements to demonstrate superior performance. John Dunlavy was so irked (he told me so himself) with Stereophile's measurements that even he invited Stereophile to independently test his time aligned designs at his facilities. With the proper distances, measurements were much improved, with Stereophile offering the blame of small glitches perhaps to reflections from the fork lift that was used to move those large cabinets.  That is not to say that without such considerations, one couldn't enjoy Thiels (heck, most people enjoy their speakers regardless of the fact that their speakers are never in time alignment).
  Thiels will make music even if underpowered, but again they won't be able to provide the strain free dynamics, linear frequency response and bass integration that appropriate power can. One can enjoy Thiels without proper driver integration, or even power, but they won't be enjoying the full potential of those Thiels. 
 

unsound,

Your comments are excellent regarding the sound of the Thiels. (Though, again, associated amplification/position/acoustics can come into play, of course).

But I hope you don’t mind if I take some issue with a statement like this:

---"All Thiels need to be at least 8’ from speaker directly to listener for proper driver integration, and the time coherence that is such an integral part of the Thiel designs." ----

That is clearly advice given with helpful intent, and no doubt some theoretical rational behind it. However, if I had taken such admonitions for keeping 8 feet from the Thiels I may very well not have bought my 3.7s.

I’m as fanatical about coherence as any other audiophile you’ll meet (starting off with the Quad ESL 63s will do that to you). So coherency is vital for my listening.

I’d seen this "you need to keep a good distance for driver integration in the Thiels" stated before, so I worried somewhat about the Thiels being right for me as my room forces a closer seating distance, which is my preference anyway.

The first thing is it didn’t really jive with my previous experience of the Thiel CS6’s. I can’t remember the distance exactly, but it was closer than 8 feet and they sounded terrific. And before buying the 3.7s, I contacted another audiogon member who said the 3.7s at 7ft from his listening position sounded perfect.

Wes Philip who raved about the 3.7s in Stereophile’s sat only 7 1/2 feet from the Thiels. Further, if you read JA’s measurements, you’ll see that getting waveform coherence is more about situating at the right height relative to the tweeter/mid, rather than distance. At a height of 34" and only 50" away, the output of all the drive units arrive at the same time, for a proper step response.

In terms of presenting a seamlessly integrated sound, this meshes with my experience in dialing in the 3.7s. I’m now averaging 6 1/2 feet from the 3.7s and they are only getting more coherent. If I lean in some more - say another 6 inches or more - they remain coherent (and in fact sound even more seamless and natural IMO).

So it would be a shame if someone who had a smaller room, or who liked closer listening, wrote Thiels off their list thinking they won’t work
closer.

On a similar note, there is the oft-repeated claim "Thiels NEED tons of power" in terms of amps. Well...yes...and no. Depends on the sound one is interested in getting from their Thiels. No speaker is perfect and different people have their own things they are trying to achieve for the sound they like, which is why synergy (per someone’s own tastes) is so important. If you want to hear the upper limit dynamics a Thiel is capable of, then...like most speakers...a powerful amplifier will do that for you. But, with lower powered tube amps Thiels still retain most of the character that attract people to Thiel - that clarity, honesty, neutrality, specificity of imaging, density, tone, aliveness, etc. With my CJ tube amps, the bass remains phenomenally controlled and tight, as well.

As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve even driven the Thiels with an Eico HF-81
14w/side tube amp. Will that allow the Thiels to play as loudly and dynamically as they are capable of? Heck no. But you will rarely hear the Thiels sound as gorgeously rich and lush and HUGE, yet clear, detailed and lively, as with that little amp. In some ways I even prefer it to my much bigger CJ amps. As long as you don’t need earth shaking volume, and in a room like mine, and since I don’t tend to listen really loud, it’s a rewarding amp/speaker pairing.

Glad to hear that Prof; I'm happily listening to the soundtrack album of "I'm Not There" a 2007 movie of Dylans' life as seen through different characters eyes.. 2 disks of some great interpretations of Dylan's songs..
I've settled in at 8 ft apart and 10.5 feet from the speakers. The soundstage is spot on behind the CS6's...
My work is done!

Shubert,
Thiel's don't really favor any genre of music, but as Thiel's are less colored and closer to laboratory grade instruments than most other speakers, they will reveal the truths (more on this later) before them. Thiel's aren't  necessarily better than other speakers in any specific audiophile ways, but completive with all of those audiophile speakers in all the various characteristics (with proper equipment and set up) without the downsides of those speakers that are one and two trick ponies. They are extremely balanced in everything they do.  The only limiting factors are room and what precedes them. IME, classical music tends to be better recorded than most popular music. With proper room size and dimensions, and ancillary equipment (especially amplification) the larger Thiels they can excel at symphonic music.  If the recordings had microphones  placed deep within pianos or immediately above the violins, the lack of time for the sound to bloom can lead to perceived hardness. Sometimes to truth isn't so pretty. But I for one prefer that over the syrupy, rose colored glasses perception that other speakers seem to gloss over everything that comes through them, whether they need the it or not.  
All Thiels  need to be at least 8' from speaker directly to listener for proper driver integration, and the time coherence that is such an integral part of the Thiel designs.

michaeljbrown,

Fortunately for me the 3.7s are significantly lighter than the CS6s, especially as I have to move the 3.7s around.  The CS6s, which I had in my room years ago, remain my second favorite Thiel speakers behind the 3.7s.  They are incredible.

jafant,

-- "prof and michaeljbrown
sit those speakers 7-9 feet apart for best effect. Toe-in may be required as well. Otherwise, kick back and enjoy the music!" ---

Check out my post just above yours. I already have mine just under 8 feet apart. No toe in required (or desired).

After a couple years dialing the 3.7s I have a pretty good idea of how to get them singing in my room ;-)

Cheers!

schubert,

I would go and listen to those 2.3 speakers for a point of reference.
Also, you maybe surprised based on the physical condition.

Happy Listening!

Keep us posted -Schubert

Happy Listening!

prof and michaeljbrown

sit those speakers 7-9 feet apart for best effect. Toe-in may be required as well. Otherwise, kick back and enjoy the music!

Happy Listening!

Much Thanks! William,

I can hardly await for your proper review when the time is right.
I really must look into that Ginger Baker disc!

Happy Listening!

Prof, I'm running out of cable when I move these CS6's to me: I guess I need to move to them. Also, moving these 140 lb beasts is not an easy task! I do like them further from the back wall: now I have them 63" from the back walls & 8ft apart. My room is 27' x 18 with two big skylights and a fireplace! How's that for room dynamics? I really like these 6's.  I see no need to spring for 3.7's; I have noticed my bass improving with the move. The more room behind the speakers, the more bass I'm getting.

Hey fellas ,
How much of the magic would I lose with 2.3'? I see there is a pr locally .

michaeljbrown,

My 3.7's are:

7.10 inches apart.  Face mostly straight ahead.

6 1/2 feet from speakers to my head.

And they sound even better if I lean in a bit more.  I keep wanting to go more nearfield :-)

BTW, as to setting up: With the Thiels, as with just about every other speaker I've owned, I prefer not to have them toed in toward me.
Of course the more toed in they are, the more focused the image and the more brilliant the high frequencies become.   But what I perceive is a brightening sort of across the whole sound - sort of like there is a whitening applied to everything.  It's exciting to the ear, but to me individual timbral qualities start to actually homogenize somewhat with this bright scrim sprayed over everything.  As I toe out that "whiteness" starts to dissolve, the deeper tones of, say, an acoustic guitar, come more into view, the sound gets a bit fuller, the imaging more rich and spacious. 

But I don't like a "dark" rolled off sound - I like a believably extended airy top end.

So I play with toe in and my distance from the speaker to maintain a believable sparkle (e.g. acoustic guitar, drum cymbals etc) but also get that richness of higher midrange info.   This is also where moving closer to the speakers comes in to play.  From a greater distance, you get more "detail" by toing the speaker in, getting that high frequency energy.  But, again, to me it sounds more "hi-fi."  As I move closer to nearfield, yet toeing the speakers outward, I'm not getting "hyped" type of detail of bright frequencies, but rather I'm reducing room induced influence and hash, getting closer to the recording, and therefore hearing that super low level detail in the recording.  So for instance, a recording of acoustic guitar will be more relaxed, fuller, with a more natural sense of detail where I just hear the sound of fleshy fingers plucking strings as I would real life, not "hi-fi."

But, it's not for everyone.  I think you get the greatest dynamics, "punch" and bass depth when further away from the speakers.  Fortunately the Thiels are by nature pretty dynamic, and keep a lot of that character even when moved close.