I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Greetings I just purchased Bryston 28b SST2's to drive the 7.2's. Can anyone recommend speaker cables that are around $600/pair or less for 8 feet. I have Nordost Red Dawn but I think it is time for an upgrade, I have not gotten the amps yet as they will arrive next week. I also have some old XLO PRO 1200 that they were kind enough to turn into shotgun terminations and I will try them, they have a lot of copper. They are green and black for those that remember them. My on-line research had people recommending 6 THOUSAND DOLLAR CABLES. I have two kids in college _ I wonder if they would mind sitting out a semester so dad can buy some speaker cables. I love the xlo signature 3 interconnects I am using for the turntable and phono stage. I purchased the Bryston balanced interconnect for the amp to preamp (classe ssp-800) to replace my nordost RCA quatrophils.
Hi Everyone, Thiel can keep appointing CEOs, but until one of them finally gets to grips that the company's brand collateral is being decimated by a never ending stream of uninspiring, underwhelming "me too" speakers, the decline will continue.
It's beyond belief to me that the Coherent Source concept doesn't feature any longer. That said, it's going to make our old Thiels much more valuable, but I'd rather that Thiel was a going concern making good money, if only to keep Rob in a job.
Always good to see you- William. TMR does have an impressive inventory on a regular basis. Prices are competitive as well. Other audiophiles in various audio forums I frequent own or have owned the VK300 XSE at one time. Never a bad report given. Same goes for B.A.T. separates. I rarely read about the mixing and matching of B.A.T. gear though. Some brands are designed to match together w/o interference, I guess? Aesthetix is another company that enters my mind. Enjoy those oysters for me.
I saw a couple listed here and wound up somehow on TMR's site on a subsequent search for the VK300XSE. While I would love to have the time sufficient to visit dealers and audition stuff, plain fact of the matter is that I just don't. I buy virtually blind and deaf all the time. Making appointments for a hobby is something time doesn't afford me.
My previous appreciation for the BAT VK3i preamplifier I had when I had my Pass X150.5 amp was the primary reason for my purchase of the integrated; returning to separates at this time is something I simply do not desire. Thiels make us do crazy things since they hide nothing. I'm a good example.
The best news is the BAT is arriving on Saturday - just in time for my annual Labor Day Seafood Fest/family get together on Sunday. Much to do, smoked duck breast, smoked oysters, dumplings fried in the duck fat, raw oysters, various incarnations of shrimp and scallops, veggies up the ying/yang, wine, spirits, brewskis...
Precisely! At the low levels I listen at 90% of the time the 3.6's just don't provide what you described whereas, IMHO, the 3.5's did - thanks in part to the bass equalizer no doubt. This "little" REL has truly made the 3.6's sound better. Not too shabby considering that they're truly remarkably fine speakers to begin with.
The bass now has that sense of "feel", not heard that you remarked upon. Love it. Thanks for putting into words something I could not.
I am perplexed that a small REL T7 subwoofer with a low frequency extension to 30Hz +/- 6db would be enough "to make me keeop the 3.6" which has a low frequency extension to 27Hz +/- 3dB. Where do you crossover? Do you think that by removing those few low Hz from the Thiels cleans up the bass response? Or do you think that your ampification just didn't have the juice to drive those lower Hz? Being a bass guitar player, I love the weight of the bass with my 3.6s and the Audio Research Ref150, but I'm always looking to clean up the timbre/transients of the individual notes. Thanks, Jon
No problemo. My offer stands until you decide if you'll pick them up or not. If you don't I'll just part them out somehow. Have a great Labor Day weekend, all!
Oblgny, please accept my apologies for not responding to your generous offer sooner. I have been traveling quite a bit lately. Perhaps if the offer still stands when I return we could have further discussions. Regardless of what might or might not transpire, thank you!
I agree the Meadowlark speakers can be wonderful. I’d listened to most of their models (when they existed) and ended up with the Blue Heron speakers at my house for a while. IMO, The Meadowlark sound was characterized by a natural organic woody/warm tone, with an airy open sound, and huge soundstaging - a real disappearing act - and decent dynamics. As you went up the Meadowlark line, and as Pat M. started using more expensive tweeters, the sound became more smooth and refined. And the larger speakers like the Heron were notable for a lush, full midrange.
As much as I absolutely loved the warmth of the Meadowlarks, I did find their tone to be more obviously imposed on the sound vs the more neutral Thiels. (I had the CS6s near to when I had the Meadowlarks).
Also, the Meadowlarks exhibited a well known characteristic with time aligned/first order crossover speakers when used in a typical tweeter/mid layout: a weird interference pattern depending on where you sat. Especially if I would rise higher or stand up, the sound would do this slightly odd change, to a suck-out in the upper mids. It reminded me of the aural equivalent of those images that use ’Lenticular Printing’ where the image shifts or changes as you change your viewing angle. Not a big thing given we tend to sit in one spot listening, but it somehow nagged a bit at me. The coaxial design of the Thiels mitigates this (one of the reasons Jim went in that direction) so not only do I not hear that problem with the Thiels, they are actually one of the better speakers in providing a uniform sound off axis.
Anyway, I agree the Meadowlarks are quite a bargain used.
Good to see you- oblgny I am interested in reading about your thoughts/impressions on the B.A.T. VK300XSE. Is your local shop a dealer/retailer for B.A.T. ? If not, where did you find this integrated? Agreed, nothing wrong with extra current on tap.
Leaving Thiel is a frustrating task, albeit one that I've personally managed to do a few times simply out of curiousity if nothing else.
Obviously for sonics I definitely recommend Maggies - they still command an attraction for me that is as hard to fathom/explain as is my appreciation for Thiel. They do so much right that the "shortcomings" many people express about them are negligible. The only aspect to kvetch about is, of course, Maggie's "Easter Island" physicality - they can dominate a space with their imposing dimensions. I've had .7's, and the 1.7's and loved 'em both - both times returning to Thiel, 3.5's referenced here, twice. Thiels are indeed Maggies with mo' bass. And that's a compliment.
I can also recommend Von Shweikert, another brand that I've found to be relatively close to Thiel, but with a lesser degree of the midrange punch that Thiel delivers. I've had VR2 and 4's, with the 4's being a closer match.
Meadowlarks. Like Jim Thiel, Pat McGinty also had a penchant for coherency and time alignment and his speakers absolutely deliver superior sonics. Used, they're just an incredible bargain. I gave my gf a pair of Kestrels a few years ago which we listen to paired with a Pioneer SX850 receiver - the little two-driver imp really impresses to this day.
Obviously all of my Thiel purchases have been from the used market, 2.2, 2.3, three pairs of 3.5, and now, FINALLY the 3.6. The Maggies I've mentioned I purchased new. It's impossible to argue the return-on-investment that used Thiels offer. Can't be beat. Nope. Can't.
I just swapped my Simaudio Neo 340i for a B. A. T. Integrated because I think my 3.6's would appreciate the extra current/wattage that the 340i couldn't deliver. (Neo 200 into 4 ohms, the B. A. T. 300 into 4 ohms.) With the 3.6's I found it necessary to add a small sub - the 3.6's were so "Maggie-like" with regard to bass reproduction that I grew frustrated. The bass from the 3.5's was indelible at all listening levels whereas to my humble ears, the 3.6 seemed to abandon it. This small REL T7 managed to make me keep the 3.6.
jafant When I talked to Rob ( last year ) at Thiel he had informed me that the veneer on the SE cost $1,000 a sheet ! Thank you for sending the e-mail because I have a feeling the Thiel will not want to get involved.
Prof Great finishes , I guess that my memory is getting old, when I was looking at the prices of 3.7s there was a pair of special finish by Gibson guitar ! The only ebony speakers that were on e-bay when I bought mine was 1.7s , I almost bought a pair but because of the bargain price , but then another 3 pairs of 2.7s became available Since I had a pair of black 2 way speakers that were given to me by a a friend and former Thiel 3.5 owner nkonor ( Norb ) about 25 years ago and a few upgrades later , I wanted 3 way speakers that weren't black . As you can see I keep things for a long time I think that the 2.7s will be my last pair , unless I win the lotto. Just finished my Sunday Classical music day. Now for a little jazz to end the evening . Rob
As above- vair68robert The Thiel CS 2.4SE is stained in a Maple Red Vermillion finish. I believe Mr. Thiel coined it as a hand-rubbed lacquer. Very durable and beautiful. I am stoked that I found a pair owned by a true audiophile. Happy Listening!
a follow up on your initial query about modern Thiel cross-over(s). I did send dgarretson an email a few days ago. As soon as I read a reply I will inform you. He has posted in this particular thread from the beginning. He has also posted in other threads related to Clarity Caps, SA Film Resistors and ESA parts. He is the expert on this subject, IMO.
it would be on interest to me regarding the number of pairs of both CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 were built? Glad you are enjoying both models. Very fine speakers indeed. Happy Listening!
My 3.7 Thiels are in the Morado (red finish with deep wood grain). They are gorgeous, though my room is done in a deliberate brown, cream and black accent, so speakers with those tones tend to sit beautifully in the room. (I've considered having the 3.7s refinished in a room matching color if I keep them).
As for the 2.7s, a couple years ago when I was looking to buy Thiels I was deciding between used 3.7s or 2.7s. I'd originally had a line on the 2.7s in the most expensive ebony finish. The pictures showed just about the most beautiful speakers I've seen, and were a perfect match for my room. But I hesitated too long and they were sold, so I moved on to purchasing the 3.7s.
When a pair of 2.7s miraculously appeared in ebony on audiogon recently I had to grab them. And they are indeed gorgeous! They match my room so well.
Thank You Jafant Since Prof brought up finish , what finish are your 2.4SE's ?
Prof , I had seen them on E-bay just before fathers day 2016, finish was not my main concern , finding New Original Thiel speakers at less than 40% of their list price was a dream come true for me. I bought my own a fathers day present. I had the choice of Maple ( to light/blonde for me ) , Walnut ( it was a beautiful veneer but to brown ) , I chose the light Cherry ( safe pick ? ) nice red tone to them. What were you looking/waiting for ? If memory serves me ( reading many pages on the thread ) are your 3.7s the Gibson specials ?
As I am trying to find out if " upgrading " the 2.7s like the 2.4s were upgraded is possible , I was wondering if anybody has heard both the 2.4s and the 2.4se's ?
My personal opinion is that Thiel missed a marketing opportunity , they should have come out with a 2.4se without the extra cost veneer and the expensive outriggers , and come out with a 2.4 mkII , a little more costly but it would have been all about the sound . That is why when I see the pictures of the crossovers of the 2.7 and 3.7 ( which look like they used the same components ) verse the 2.4se that if it is possible to " SE " the 2.7s then it would be possible to " SE " the 3.7s ! Something good for us and Thiel IF they wanted to offer the service !
Call me Crazy Rob
something to a little different listen to the Temptations Psychedelic Shack
I'm taken aback by your reporting of all those 2.7s for sale, as I had (and have) been following that market for quite a while and the 2.7s were even more rare than the 3.7s. (In fact, it took two years to find 2.7s in the finish I preferred).
Was the situation you described recent, or are you talking about seeing those Thiels further in the past?
Good to see you- audiojan it is very tough to beat (no pun) the CS 2.4 speaker. Very sweet and priced right, recently a saw a pair on eBay for $1700, as the dealer offered a deep discount. A steal! Should an opportunity present itself to buy the CS 2.4SE do not hesitate to buy. Models 2.7 and 3.7 are excellent as well. Happy Listening!
vair68robert I was hoping that dgarretson would chime-in on the cross-over discussion. He is well versed in the oem parts used by Mr. Thiel on models CS2.4SE, CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 speakers. I will attempt to reach him via email and direct him your way. More to follow. Happy Listening!
Thanks! for sharing- shubert that whole bail -out non-sense was a backdoor deal via politics to be sure. I concur in that no public debt for private losses. Good to see you. Happy Listening!
I heard a pair of TT1 the other days I'm really underwhelmed... Even compared to my CS2.4's, they're falling flat. Just lifeless and boring, not "the window into the recording" I'm spoiled with from the traditional Thiel's. If I can find a pair of CS3.7's, those might by my next upgrade, but otherwise, I'm forced to leave Thiel. Any suggestion what I should be looking at if not for Thiel?
While await hearing from Rob at Thiel service I started thinking and researching , HiFi Shock has some great hi def pictures of the crossovers, you can see the difference in the 2.4se and the 2.7.
I also looked at the 3.7s , I thought that with them being the cost is no object that would look like the 2.4se but they look like they used the same caps as in the 2.7s .
Anyway if they can't be done by Rob at Thiel then I will try to find the capacitor manufacture that they used on the 2.4se and do it myself,
though this my have to wait until next year when I retire.
A few posts back you mentioned that you might be interested in the pair of 3.5's I picked up for a pittance?
After repeated trials I discovered that both midranges were failed, no sound. (Although I almost hate to admit it they still sounded good.) Senior citizens ears...
Anyway, the cabinets were pretty rough - the roughest pair of the 3 pairs I've had, the tweeters are dimpled - not the single sort but more of an imperfect roundness all around. They work. The woofers are without flaw.
I extricated the drivers and the crossovers from the cabinets, serial numbers consecutive 707 & 708, and the bass eq is functioning. All the screws, the badges I've bagged.
If you or anyone else is willing to pick them up they're FREE. The mids look fine, they just don't work - no holes etc. If you have a pair that you might want "back up" for, they're here, and they're FREE.
I'm looking at a B. A. T. VK300XSE Integrated with recertified factory warranty right now for around $3k; the extra 100 watts this will lend to my 3.6's seems a wise option IMHO. While the REL T7 sub I've added has made a palpable improvement to these great speakers, methinks a little mo' better amp wouldn't hoit, either. Previously I had a B. A. T. pre and loved it.
Prof When i decided that I wanted Thiel speakers I was looking at a pair of 3.6s up in Portland but by the time I ready to rent a van and go and buy them the were gone , so I started to look for used 3.7s but the prices were still to high for me ( $6,800 plus shipping ! ) so when I saw 3 pairs 2.7s going on E-Bay for $3,000 I didn't exactly jump on them right away , I placed a bid and lost :( then another 3 pairs went up for bid , I lost again :( , So I called the seller Thiel audio and they had 3 more pairs and I bought a pair for $3,000 with first choice of finishes :) , on the same morning they listed 1 pair of 3.7s for $7,000 ! I thought about calling them back and buying them but still to rich for me. These were all new , Thiel didn't even know they had them until they went into the storage room were they thought the file cabinets had been placed after the move to Tennessee . the last new genuine Thiels available . I feel very , very Lucky. and now very very Happy :)
I haven't heard back from Rob at Thiel about the crossover capacitors yet .
jafant, Unlike us ,"socialist" Sweden refused to bail out anyone in the 2008 melt-down, not Saab, not Volvo not the biggest bank in Sweden. No public debt for private losses .
Jafant, I re-did everything again.My 3.7's are with my xpa 1 monos just for 2 channel now. My 805's I'm using for home theater .I had to find a use for the 1.6's so surround rears they are.My rear channel never sounded this good!I feel like I got my 2.4's back,only smaller which is good!Every squirrel finds a nut sometimes!
Yeah, there will likely always be old Thiel speakers available on the second hand market. But Jim’s last great Thiels, the 3.7 and 2.7,* are damned rare on the market now. I’ve been keeping track. When I look at my 3.7/2.7s I think "whoa I’m lucky to have these."
And that was reiterated once again as I was out speaker shopping this week. I heard more contemporary speakers from $4,000 up to about $30,000 and none of them sounded to me as good as the Thiels. What a crazy bargain the 3.7 was in particular.
(*I know the 2.7 was partially designed after Jim's death, but it obviously carried on his work).
Agreed William, a damn shame about Saab. I owned one back in the 80's. A fun car to drive and could weather any road conditions.
The new iteration of Thiel has probably reached a point of no return. As luck has it, there are a plethora of original JT designs in the secondary market. Happy Listening!
Just got a pair of 1.6 for 500$ today to play with!Cant believe how good they sound!They had a few dings in the woofers I pulled out and now look presentable!Best 500 I ever spent!I think I'm going to use them for rears in my surround system.Man,Jim Thiel could build a speaker!
The person responsible for designing the "New" Thiels was Mark Mason formerly at PSB he left over a year ago. Could the new wireless speakers be made and designed by an outside company that allowed Thiel to badge the product w/their logo??
Not at all odd that the article neglected/omitted mention of any personage responsible for building/designing the products. Such is the failure of attempting to perpetuate the history and legacy of a brand simply by badging the name onto products that have little or no connection to those that established it originally.
BMW has been "marketing" a hatchback for a while now and, having long been a SAAB kinda guy in the past, I had to take one for a spin. When I remarked that it was in no small way nothing more than a more expensive Saab, the sales rep looked at me funny and asked, "What's a Saab?"
This new woman is destined to fail sooner or later simply because just marketing the Thiel brand is like bringing back an Oldsmobile - yeah I remember when but ...didn't they become pieces of sh*t?
I'm losing count I think this is CEO Number 4. Anyone have the over/under on how long She'll last?? Wireless speakers sounds exciting. The exact direction Jim Thiel would have taken the company.
Still pondering. I've been listening to the 2.7s for quite a while and just last night switched in the 3.7s again. It's still a tough decision because they do different things "better" but I'm not in a big rush as I own both.
I don't know if Miss McKenna can help turn the fortunes of the new Thiel around...but they should at least have waited until she was off the toilet before taking her picture ;-)
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
