I believe that a major factor in the popularly-held fallacy that phase and time information don't matter or can be misrepresented in test design is that such measurement techniques are given undue validity by most, leading to most manufacturers implementing designs that will test well against a fundamentally flawed standard . . . supporting a vicious cycle that justifies and validates the fallacy. This statement is philosophy-speak for don't eat everything you're fed.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,500 responses Add your response
Stereophile can't or won't measure Thiel's at the appropriate 3 meters.It makes sense that JA measures from the same distance (ie, standard) for everything but he has to be close (50") using his "quasi-anechoic" conditions to avoid early reflections. Definitively puts first order designs at big disadvantage. Soundstage has a real anechoic chamber and measures at 2 m. |
I heard the Ayre integrated with the 3.7s when I was auditioning them and I definitely wouldn't recommend that combination. It'd be fine at low volumes but lost definition when you cranked it up a little bit. I was surprised at the difference I heard when I went from a single 200 watt at 8 ohms power amp to 2 running bridged mono. There was a definite improvement in low end torque. |
Stereophile's measurements suggest that the AX-5 prefers to work above 4 Ohms.Hmm, must be all that Cardas wiring ;^) Looks to me that it behaves very well into a 4 Ohm load. These would be good measurements for an amp *with* negative feedback hiding its problems, never mind a naked zero feedback design. At 2 Ohms, it does start to become "stressed" mostly below 200 Hz. I would probably hesitate to pair an AX-5 with, say, Thiel CS5 or Magnepan 20. Lining the AX-5 measurements up with the impedance/phase traces for the CS2.4, it appears the most demanding frequencies for the Thiel are a bit higher up in the midrange. Nevertheless, one might wonder how these two might pair. As always in these matters, the proof is in the listening. My ears tell me they work together just fine, thanks. I detect no distortions or other unpleasantness at any frequency or SPL I've tried. YMMV. If I were to audition and purchase based only on Stereophile's measurements I would not even give Thiels a second look, never mind own them! That upper midrange/lower treble suckout looks fatal! And look at all the hash in the waterfall plot! I'd probably own Revels and Halcros . . . and wonder why I wasn't enjoying my favorite music. [OTOH, Soundstage's measurements of the CS2.4 taken from 28" further away are among the the very best in their database in terms of flat frequency response and low distortion.] Welp, I at least we can agree that Thiels are great sounding speakers . . . |
May I offer the advice that: one should not necessarily assume that because a marque gains a reputation for robust separates that the same badge on a smaller scale integrated will perform the same as those separates. And visa versa, the performance of an integrated does not necessarily reflect what the same manufacturers separates are capable of. It might, but more likely does not. |
Good to see you- oblgny you are my "go to" guy for all things integrated amp(s). Factually speaking, I was thinking about you during my STR audition. Agreed, the demo was excellent and did not have me wanting more outside of this amp's capability. Hopefully Anthem will provde us with an answer regarding current(A) ratings soon. Happy Listening! |
I have not heard the AX-5 but I use the Ayre VX-5 Twenty with my 2.4s with exceptional results. Cables are Audience AU24SE. Recently did a speaker repositioning using the instructions for the “master set” and the system has never sounded better. I highly recommend reading the instructions and give it a try. Strongly recommend Ayre and IMHO the measurements in Stereophile may be worth revisiting. |
Frankly, I’ve thrown a lot of different amp/preamp combinations at my Thiels over the past few years, none of which sounded bad through them. Class d amps mated as well as class a/b amps managed; every combo offered something different but to say I could tell class d from a/b would be something of a stretch. Through it all I always had a tubed preamp, just a holdover thing and my fondness for tubes in general. While I’m again currently pondering a return to separates, my integrated hasn’t had me missing anything I could readily detect. The BAT is pretty sweet. |
Frankly, I’ve thrown a lot of different amp/preamp combinations at my Thiels over the past few years, none of which sounded bad through them. Class d amps mated as well as class a/b amps managed; every combo offered something different but to say I could tell class d from a/b would be something of a stretch. Through it all I always had a tubed preamp, just a holdover thing and my fondness for tubes in general. While I’m again currently pondering a return to separates, my integrated hasn’t had me missing anything I could readily detect. The BAT is pretty sweet. |
IME there are very few integrated amps that are really ideal for most Thiel’s. I'm getting superb results with my Ayre AX-5. On one hand, it is the only amp I've heard with the CS2.4SE. But on the other, I'm getting most of the SQ of the very best systems I've heard, eg, ARC Ref 250 driving Vandersteen Seven and Ayre R-series driving TAD Ref Ones. There are only a few systems I've heard that I would swap for mine straight across and all of them are considerably more $$$. |
J, the hidden problem that arises with an amp that doesn't double-down to 2 ohm loads is that the distortion increases dramatically when driven into overload. That dirty signal is what toasts drivers, especially the delicate tweeter voice coil which is still in the circuit below 200 hz in a first-order XO. Unless you have a small room and quiet listening habits, I suggest holding out for more beef. |
Thanks! for the specs- unsound. those thoughts did cross my mind of course. I am working on a connection with the Anthem rep for my area/district whom uses this integrated in his system featuring CS 3.7 loudspeakers. I will take the 138w doubling down into 2 ohms, so long as, the current is engaging. Happy Listening! |
Jafant, I do hope you get to hear the STR with your Thiel’s before committing to it. I wouldn’t exactly agree that it’s “very powerful”, not with your Thiel’s at least. Look at the specs below 4 Ohms, both the integrated and the SRT power amp seem to drop current output fairly dramatically (for ss) below 4 Ohms, which is where your 2.4’s reside from 100 Hz straight through past 20 KHz. Below 100 Hz the 2.4’s impedance curve is a bit of a roller coaster ride with some challenging phase angles too. It’s power output below 4 Ohms is comparable to a less than 138 Watts per channel amp that could truly double down to 2 Ohms. Of course, depending on room, source material and desired listening volumes, either could be satisfactory. Personally I would be concerned about depreciation purchasing one of these new. |
unsound now, the fun really begins as I start pondering a CD/SACD spinner and cabling that ties it all together. I have only heard Anthem gear w/ Audioquest cabling (older models). Other than Audioquest, I have spent the most time with Transparent Audio cabling (I do not know if this brand is a sonic match?). Happy Listening! |
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Good catch- unsound and marqmike. The CS 2.4 does not have a powered woofer section. It does not need one, in my opinion. All listening was conducted w/o any subwoofer. This was my first introduction to Goldenear speakers. The Ribbon tweeter really shines and images well. The soundstage had plenty of depth and width in appropiate manner. All instruments exhibited proper texture with excellent separation, space and air. Still, Thiel captures a more naturally rich timbre. Happy Listening! |
Thank You- nutty yes, this amp is very powerful. The music just flowed without any effort to my ears. I started at level 30.0 on the volume. Then increased to 20.0, certainly loud at this point. By the time I reached 15.0, the sound was as loud as I wanted. The Anthem 225 is no slouch as we all know. The STR represents the next evolution of integrated amp. A killer DAC is on-board for those who want to go computer audio/streaming route. In 2018, the Integrated amp has certainly come-of-age. And this is simply one company for example. Think about those other offerings at the $10k level and up to the $20k level. Happy Listening! |
jafant, Thanks for taking time to audition the STR and for the well written report. It appears that Anthem has once again produced a high quality, high powered and reasonably priced Integrated amp. I would like to hear more feedback when you receive your unit. I am interested in hearing your impressions of the STR driving speakers without a powered woofer section, such as your Thiels. Good luck on your purchase! N |
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2nd Note; CDs used during audition- Jamie Cullum- Twentysomething (2004) Verve Pearl Jam - Ten (1991) Epic Nirvana - Unplugged Live in New York (1993) DGC SACDs used during audition; The Rolling Stones -Hot Rocks 1 - (2002) Abkco Pink Floyd - DSOTM - 30th anniversary edition (2003) Capitol Pink Floyd - WYWH - (2012) APO Journey - Greatest Hits - (2001) Columbia Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio - Autumn in Seattle - (2001) FIM Happy Listening! |
unsound- ask and you shall receive my audiophile friend. Last week I had the distinct listening pleasure of auditioning Anthem's new STR Integrated amp. My dealer/retailer is Cohen's Electronics. These guys have been in business for 5 decades and back in the 1990's were a real audio/hifi force. Times change and so do the customers. Since the early 2000's they bought into the home theater scene. Last year we had talked about bringing back the Audio side full on. Associated gear was a Yamaha universal BD-A1040 spinner, Goldenear Triton Three loudspeakers and Monster interconnects and speaker cabling (house brand cabling since the 1990's). Surprisingly, this combination of gear and cabling proved to be an excellent match. The amp weighs 40 pounds, very solid in build and construction. Sleek styling and Silver in color was my review sample that came from my area Anthem sales rep/manager whom had around 150 -200 hours play time. This gentleman owns a pair of Thiel CS 3.7 loudspeakers in his system as it turns out. I am in the process of finding out the rest of his system and musical tastes. Also, there is another gentleman whom lives in my area that bought his STR last month and uses a turntable set-up (hopefully I can connect with him for a follow-up soon). Auditioning took place in a dedicated room that is very well damped, dead quiet. I would say it is 15x15x12 maybe larger and still under 20x20x12 in size. I sat 8-10 feet away from the system. The Yamaha player is impressive using its coaxial output into the STR DAC input. The sound and presentation was excellent. Powerful, energetic, robust, dynamic (micro/macro) a touch warm of neutral is my description. For those who have heard the Anthem 225 integrated, the STR, represents the next level of musical enjoyment. These (2) amps are not lean, dry, thin nor anemic, for the record. I was easily able to hear deeper into the music on my reference CD titles than I can recall from previous demos. The same is reported for SACD playback via the analog output from player into the analog input of amp (no HDMI on the Anthem), PRaT was in effect big time. Again, this system was very musical from top to bottom. I can only imagine the synergy of my speakers and the STR. MSRP is $4499, even at full retail, this amp is a steal. One is going to spend much more for separates or a different brand's integrated of equal quality and power ratings. Later this week I will make an offer on the review sample. Highest marks across the board. Happy Listening! |
Hello all! Wondering if anyone has ever re-covered their grills & if so, where did they buy the cloth, how much to buy & how much it cost? I’ve been researching "speaker grill cloth" & have been quite surprised at how much some sites are asking per yard of the stuff...in basic black, no less. The grills on my 3.5’s are in great shape structurally, but the cloth was trimmed & reglued by the previous owner, leaving me nothing "extra" now that the edges have begun to peel away. Thanks for any help or suggestions! Arvin |
@tomthiel, Whatever happened to the MCS1.2 center channel announced in 2012? https://www.soundandvision.com/content/long-awaited-thiel-center That got a lot of Thiel owners very excited, but of course it never came out to market. What exactly happened with that speaker? Were any actually produced beyond a prototype? And...what lucky bugger ended up with the one shown in the picture? (If I'm allowed to ask) :-) |
strat-a-gee article here: https://www.strata-gee.com/king-thiel-dead-coherent-source-service/ Coherent Source website here: https://www.coherentsourceservice.com/ My "100 MBps" Comcast had a hard time downloading the pic of the CS3.7s! Woo-hooo! Can't wait to learn more about "hot-rod kits". Crazy that he will honor warranties for legacy models. I hope he doesn't regret that decision. |
Not planning any experiments . . . I hope to upgrade the crossovers exactly one time! Or piecemeal, given that I already have the Clarity SAs in the coax feed. ie, start with the woofer feed, maybe put newer Clarity (or Mundorf) in the coax feed as budget and nervosa dictate :) From Tom's posts, the best bang-for-the-buck could be to "simply" put top-shelf bypass caps in. I might look at options from Cornell Dubilier in addition to Clarity and Mundorf. I will continue to check this thread for more info from Tom Thiel and, hopefully, Rob Gillum. In the meantime, there is no doubt that the music in my living room is more clear, immediate, and involving than ever. And I want even more of that! |
