vair68robert........that adds a new twist. Good food for thought. Thanks.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,726 responses Add your response
offnon57 I have a CJ made McCormack DNA-250 powering Thiel CS2.7's and I couldn't be happier , unless I had DNA-750 mono blocks . While I'm not as amplifier experienced as many of the Thiel speaker owners I will say the the 400 watts per channel at 4 ohms lets the speakers show how good they are . Supposedly the DNA-250s have all the upgrades the Steve offers for his manufactured models . I have ( so far ) only replaced the IEC connector with a Furutech one, the 20 amp fuse holder with a military grade 30 amp holder , the 6 fuse holders on the board with solid copper silver plated ones and all the fuses with ceramic fuses ( the main being a Furutech and the rest are Bussman ). You might want to send it SMC for upgrades or buy another and have mono blocks but the McCormack amplifier to me is fantastic . Rob |
IMHO, and this indeed a very personal view; the McCormack sound checks off oh so many boxes, but....they’re just too forward. For me(!) there are some more appealing options. With Thiel’s and McCormack’s there is so much good stuff, but it ends up right in your lap. The McCormacks are truly excellent, but perhaps a better match with more laid back speakers; a truly outstanding match with Vandersteen’s. YMMV!!! The similar but voiced slightly different c-j ss amps can work very well with Thiel’s depending on the models. |
Hello......I've recently been checking out Thiel on threads here,and reading reviews but have no experience listening.I'm wondering if anyone drives their Thiels with McCormack....I have a DNA 1 . I haven't seen mention of McCormack in my reading but it seems they would be a good match. Thanks for any info. |
prof, you need to listen to just your sub without the speakers playing. Use the online tone generator to see if the sub is producing sound at midrange frequencies. If it is, something is probably wrong with it or the setup. In my opinion it's illogical to fuss around with sub setup and dissatisfaction with the sound without measuring the room. If you've got a big hump somewhere that could be your problem. I recently got my old Behringer ultracurve out, hooked it up to the sub and measured the room. The room had some big bumps in the deep bass that definitely made it sound thick and slow in certain spots. I cut the two bump frequencies by 3 and 4 db and it sounds great now. I didn't come anywhere near equalizing it completely flat but I cut enough to get rid of the overloaded room sound. In the past I eq'd my system completely flat using huge cuts and it doesn't sound right. A little bit of moderate eq can be a definite improvement, though. onlinetonegenerator.com/ |
jon_5912, As I think I detailed somewhere in this thread, I didn't have the luck I hoped using the speaker level inputs on JL Audio Subwoofers for my Thiel 2.7s. It seemed to such a bit of life out of the dynamics, transients, and also darkened the overall tone too much. I tried the RCA inputs (running from my CJ pre-amp) and that sounded a bit better dynamically, but still darkened the tone too much. My CJ preamp probably isn't the best for driving the long runs (30 to 40 ft) cables I had to use. So I have the JL Audio active crossover now which I'll be setting up soon (hopefully). That in theory should work better, and it will be the first time I'm actually splitting the signal to the Thiels, probably between 60 - 80 Hz - instead of running them full range. Fingers crossed. |
tmsrdg, I was going to buy either a Rel or Svs.A local dealer that I trust recommended a GoldenEar SuperSub xxl.After reading Absolute Sound’s review of SuperSub,I took one home.Msrp was 2 k,dealer sold it to me for 1600 out the door,new in box.I really liked the Svs Ultra,but think SuperSub Is a little better!Ive had it for about a year,with nothing but good things to say about it.Using pre outs of preamp,instead of sub output made the sub come to life!Blends seamlessly with my 3.7’s.Absolute Sound said it was very musical,and it is!Im using one sub,right inside of my left speaker.A bass crawl test gave me that location.I think one sub is enough for me!Adding a subwoofer to my 3.7’s made everything more fun to listen it.I couldn’t imagine not using a sub now!Good luck with your sub search!Finding the right piece is half the fun! |
I've wondered why I've found that using speaker level inputs on a sub frequently sound better to me than using the low level or sub inputs. In some cases, it's definitely been that the line-level source I was using couldn't run the two sets of interconnects well. When I used two pairs of interconnects on a benchmark dac1 or dac2, the quality of bass was definitely degraded. On the other hand, this problem isn't there when I have a bryston bp25 preamp between the benchmark and the power amps/subs. I recently bought a bryston bp26 so now I have two bryston preamps and two benchmark dacs in two systems. I hope to be able to do some meaningful comparisons at some point. Little kids keep me too busy for much audio hobby stuff. |
Hello fellow Thiel owners & fans! Just wanted to update you on the repair of my 3.5's Electronic Bass EQ at Coherent Source Services. As you may remember, I began to get some intermittent "crackling" coming out of my system right around late January. I tracked it down to the Bass EQ. Contacted Rob at Coherent Source and he informed me about excess voltage accumulating in the output circuit of the unit, which causes the crackling. Sent it to him, he cleared the pots and repaired the output circuit to eliminate the excess voltage problem from ever happening again. Without it in my system, it was clear that my 3.5's just wouldn't go as low as I was used to. Putting it back into my system, the repaired unit was not only noticeably more quiet, but had more "impact" and "slam" than before! The bass is definitely fuller, but the speed and definition has improved markedly...couldn't be a better way to spend $165 to get this improvement in sound! Turnaround time was about 3 weeks, which I didn't mind since I travel for work during the week. I also looked at it as he was pretty busy, which is good because I'd love Rob to succeed. His communication with me, as with other Thiel owners, has been excellent! He even sent me a follow-up email with the following advice: "The EQ is especially attractive sonically when the switch is in the 20 Hz position. In order for there speakers to last a long time, be sure to switch to 40 Hz position on the EQ when listening loudly. Because the speakers are a first-order crossover, it is not advisable to play them loudly when in the 20 Hz position, as the midrange drivers are also wide bandwidth and this will shorten the life of the mids by sending the 20Hz signal through them while listening loudly. The CS3.5’s are truly great, and I hope you enjoy them for many years. Thank you for your business, and ownership of the CS3.5’s. Your EQ is shipping today via UPS ground. Tracking number is XXXXXXXXX. Happy listening!" Anyway, like I said, the improvement in sound with the repaired EQ unit is truly remarkable. If your EQ module has a serial number below 3770, consider having Rob service the unit as it does contain the output circuit where excess voltage builds up. You may be surprised at how much sound you've been missing! Hope you're enjoying the music... Arvin |
Folks, I plan to put my Thiel 3.7s up for sale soon, and as I'm just starting to research pricing I wondered if I could get some feedback. Mine are close to mint (had them refinished) in the Morado finish. Any suggestions on a list price? I plan to offer them on Canuck Audio Mart first, hoping for a local buyer. |
At that point the sound changes a bit from the reflections from the pillow around my ears, similar to when I introduce some more room reflection by moving my curtains off the side walls near the speakers.I am certain that my ears relative to the high couch back is a big part of the differences in sound I heard. In my case, I think that and listening height are more important than differences between, say, 8 and 9' distance. |
Lafuma - I have two of those, mesh versions, that I use in the yard during summer. Fantastic for taking a nap in the shade! Last night I was using a wooden low-rider style. I kept adding padding until my ears were in the range 32-36. I thought that ~35-36" sounded best-ish. I intend to dial that in more then return to speaker placement. |
Most speakers tend to sound a bit more rich and full, emphasizing the midrange over high frequencies, when you lower your listening position. That is true of the 3.7s though for some reason less so of the 2.7s which seem to maintain a very even tonality over a wider vertical area. The 2.7s might have the most consistent tone over a wide axis of any speaker I’ve owned excepting the MBL omis. I sit on a very large sofa that I had custom designed for deep seats and somewhat high backs to facilitate comfot and support for watching movies and long listening sessions. I specifically made sure the back supports my shoulders but ends before my neck/head so as not to interfere with direct sound from the speakers. However I can recline further, feet up on the ottoman, resting my head into the pillows. At that point the sound changes a bit from the reflections from the pillow around my ears, similar to when I introduce some more room reflection by moving my curtains off the side walls near the speakers. The sound brightens a bit, gets a bit more lively and present, a bit more expansive though less image focus. It can be enjoyable too. But tonality becomes a bit more whitened and homogenized so mostly I listen with me back supported, ears clear of the back cushions. |
i point my speakers almost straight with maybe 2 degrees toe in. they are about 9' apart as measured from the center of the coaxes. ears are about 7'8" to the coax and are below the coax about 6". please read what Pierre has to say about listening position. it is general for sure but some good info here. just avoid heavily padded chairs or couches right behind your ears (which is why i use the Lafuma cloth covered recliner). http://www.mapleshadestore.com/freeupgrades.php |
my ears are about 7'10" from the coaxesMy ears were just a hair closer than 8' when I was on the lower chair. Previously I tried the couch closer, also with my ears about 8' away from the coaxes, but this was the first time I really experimented with a *lower* position. Next, I will try removing the couch cushion and try various pillows to lower my ears. This would have my ears about 9' away. That might not be the answer tho' as I *did* try a couple of songs with risers under the front spikes to tilt them up (this is how Vandersteen does it for differing listening distances albeit with changing screw settings rather than adding risers). Interesting to me as I've mostly experimented with speaker position rather than listening position. I know Jim Smith recommends starting with listening position before starting on speaker positioning. |
I agree with Prof. i too like more near field listening with my 2.7's. i started doing this after reading some info on the Mapleshade site about listening position. Pierre thinks most people sit too high and too far away. i use a really nice and comfy Lafuma zero gravity chair to recline back so my ears are definitely below the coax. i think sitting on a heavily padded couch might not be a good idea as i used to do that . my ears are about 7'10" from the coaxes and i get a very enveloping (depending on the recording) sound stage. |
Beetlemaina, Sounds like you are edging toward how I listen. I’ve always preferred closer listening, away from room boundaries, which inevitably makes for smother more immersive sound, and better apprehension of subtle detail. Those more subtle details go missing from further away, and get lost in room bounce “hash.” I hear more of the individual tonality of instruments captured in the recording as well as more details of the acoustics/reverb of the recording. The only thing that starts to fall away a bit more with closer listening is the sense of liveliness so I always look to maintain a balance. Fortunately I have a really good room that is well damped (not too damped) and low in such factors so I can still use a further listening distance and still hear great detail in the recording. But for soundstaing immersion I still like a fairly close seat. |
Had the house to myself tonight and not only played the SEs loudly but played with listening position. Soundstage's measurements were at a manufacturer's recommended 30": https://www.soundstage.com/measurements/thiel_cs24/ With the spikes and outriggers this lifts the speaker another 2". So, I tried a lower chair and was able to get my ears 32-36" off the floor using different combinations of pillows (my ears are probably more like 38-40" off the floor in my usual seat). But I also sat closer, so I was changing vertical *and* horizontal off-axis angles. Additionally, it put my ears further from the back wall and couch I usually sit on. So, I was changing at least 3 variables at once. Anyhow, I was able to get the best sound yet. Image density remains less good than the best I've heard but the sound seemed to open up a bit with a notably more immersive soundstage. I'm slowly getting the position dialed in - can't wait to hear what the XO upgrade does! |
Ya, I told Rob about the driver issue and he also was scratching his head. One of the drivers actually separated where it is cemented to the magnet. The other one started making a distinctive cracking noise on any high-frequency recording. Well if it was the amp or anything else upstream I am starting out with different gear so it shouldn’t happen again. I am anxious to get the V-5xe in black. I remember when I bought mine but at the time could not afford a new one so Agon to the rescue. This one is a one-owner unit and I had Ayre look up the Serial number. The unit was made in early 2008 and has never been to Ayre for any type of repairs or work. I sure am tempted as there is a K-5x pre-amp on Ebay right now for only $1.600. If I send it to Ayre for $1,200 they would upgrade it to the full K-5xeMP current model. I am looking forward to getting the caps from Rob along with some high quality silver solder. He told me with the new caps that I will definitely notice the change in sound. The only problem I am having now is trying to find good IC’s but at a price that does not get close to the cost of the actual components. |
@f1wheels That should be a really nice sounding system, unless the Ayre kills another coax :o Please let us know how changing the caps goes for you. I will be making a more comprehensive change to my XOs, maybe next month. I imagine Rob Gillum has supplied good instructions for you to follow but we can all learn from your experience. |
I spoke with Rob at coherent source and he is sending me the upgrade components for my original 2.4's to make them 2.4SE's. Also I am going to send in my grill covers to have him put on some fresh ones. After 12 years of sitting in the house they do show a little age. I purchased the speakers brand new and have always loved them. He told me that they will sound even better with the changes I will make. I also just picked up my old amp that I loved as well, the Ayre V-5XE. This one is a rare one as it is black and at the time Ayre charged an extra $250 for the black chassis. Right now I just have a Marantz AV-7701 Pre-Pro that I use with my HT set-up, but it does have balanced pre-outs. I will eventually buy the Ayre K-5x, there is one on Ebay right now for $1,600 and I am very tempted. I would send it into Ayre and for $1,200 they would upgrade it to the K-5xeMP. As for my source I just bought an Oppo UDP-205 player. |