oblgny,
Wow, your statement of THIELS are Maggies with more bass... that's a very sage comment. When I worked for him, we discussed design in depth many times... he would say, Electrostatic/Panel speakers were the best... that sound, (cabinetless) was his goal. Man, you really nailed it.
Larry
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How wonderful to see a dear friend Tom Thiel contributing to this site. I hope all is well for you and yours Tom. Write me some time on FB.
Larry Staples
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One more thing. It's important to note the depth and breadth of research and development that Tom and Jim worked on and succeeded in, in designing loudspeakers. They approached each issue three dimensionally. As Tom so accurately states, every solve has a side effect which may introduce more problems than it helps.
An admission of mine. When I Founded LSA Group a decade or so ago, I voiced my speakers only to 'sound' the way I thought seemed natural. And because I have a good sense of music, they were enormously pleasing. There was NO science involved, NOTHING akin to the task undertaken by THIEL AUDIO. Jim will be forever missed.
Tom accurately states that the new THIEL owners, rather than 'Tilt at Windmills', simply tried to exist with a 'me too' product.
It is a shame that Jim did not have a like minded young engineer that he could have passed a wonderful legacy of work on to.
Best to all,
Larry
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Typos the bane of my existence.
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jayfant, et al,
I owned one of the first pairs of the CS5 THIEL Loudspeakers. I've always wondered what Jim could have done, cost no object to the crossover of that wonderful speaker.
Massive air core pure air core inductors, maybe Mundorf caps. Wow, that makes me shiver just to imagine.
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Tom,
They were indeed Brazilian Rosewood... you picked the pair personally.
I requested a bold pair with great patterning. You chose this pair because I THINK (29 year old memory) that this pattern had 'great cathedral pattern? No, I sold them about the same time I was going through a divorce. They were not only stunning looking, but sounded other worldly.
I miss them to this day.
Larry
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jafant,
I currently own a pair of Magnepan 20.7's. My amp is an LSA Audio Statement ... from the LSA Group that I founded in '06. 150 watts per channel into 8ohms, doubling into 4ohms and almost doubling again into 2. Has a tube pre section and is highly updated with some of the best parts available. Cheap op amps were deleted. The design being done by through the Genius of John Tucker, currently owner of Exemplar.
My Audiophile odyssey began in the late '70's. By '81 I had become a full blown nut. I purchased THIEL 03a loudspeakers from a dealer and picked them up in Lexington, just down the road from Louisville, Ky. That's where I met Tom, Jim and Kathy. Their obvious passion and love for music coupled with their obvious intelligence made me think, 'One day I'm going to be in the Audio Business.' Two years later, I walked away from a job as Vice President of a Company and opened the doors of my very own High End Store. THIEL was the anchor for me. If I couldn't have them I probably wouldn't have done it.
The Iraq War and a simultaneous ruptured appendix conspired to help me close my doors after about 12 years.
Some years later, in fall of '97, I got a call on my answering machine from Jim Thiel. Those of us who knew him can appreciate this very succinct message. "Hey Larry, this is Jim Thiel.... long pause... I'm calling to find out if you'd like to be THIEL'S National Sales Manager... long pause... bye.'
I thought it over for about 2 milliseconds and called back. By 3:00 I was a THIEL employee.
For those of you who did not know Jim or Tom, and without pandering.... I have to say that they are BOTH two of the most intelligent and inventive people I've met... and I've now been around for 69 years.
That's pretty much it.
Thanks for asking and I hope this wasn't too boring!
Larry
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Tom,
Years ago, I owned the IMF Loudspeakers by Irving M. 'Bud' Fried.
When I opened my store in Louisville, in '83, he called me to discuss carrying his products. (By then it was 'Fried Loudspeakers'. One point he was adamant about ADAMENT!, was his stand on real wool stuffing in the cabinets of all his models. 'None of that cheap synthetic sh*t'! So, when I designed the LSA's one thing I did was A/B the speakers with the standard cheap, stuff, lol. It was truly an aha moment. NOT a placebo effect. I repeated this for several audiophiles, not explaining. They unanimously and overwhelmingly picked the tightly packed wool models. I can't remember what was used in all the THIEL speakers. (I'm old). I recommend this for any box speaker.
Have you experimented with this?
Larry
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Forgot this. The CS5 dropped to about 2.2ohms if I recall. The design philosophy for bass in the 3.7's was very similar.
Larry
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tmsrdg,
This is an old memory so forgive any misstatements.
I remember talking to Jim and Tom about their design work on the CS5 Loudspeakers. One issue, and a large one, how to pull the amount of current from the amplifier to adequately make the bass come alive.
The speaker had a stated bottom of about 22Hz as I recall. Jim said that they decided that if the impedance dropped enough, that that would pull the amount of current needed to adequately fund the bass. (just as the 3.7 drops in impedance in the lower bass) After the speakers were finished, he and I had dinner and Jim expressed his disappointment in the published specs of the big boy amps versus the reality of their capabilities in producing power into diminishing resistance. It seems that they were not nearly as powerful as claimed.
Back then, Gryphon, now a powerhouse amplifier, was woefully inadequate in playing program material on my CS5's at even moderate levels, with music having deep bass.
As Jim said, 'Every solve creates another challenge', or words to that effect.
So, tmsrdg, I'd check a review or two on your amp, I'm thinking you're right about the congestion issue. Possibly they don't rate their amp into 2 ohms is because it doesn't do well. Many don't.
Best,
Larry
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Oh to have a few million to resurrect THIEL to its Glory Days, now with Tom THIEL at the helm.
Sigh.....
Larry Staples
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Tom,
I went to Amazon and they have 'Dancing at the Gate' on CD. Which version is your remaster... they show two different covers and release dates.
Thanks
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