vair68robert
Thank You for posting your findings as well. Keep us posted as you massage those Mills resistors into your speakers.
Happy Listening!
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Greetings Thiel fans, i have been using Thiel speakers since 1986 starting with a pair of 2.0's and am now enjoying a pair of 3.7's that I got from Rob about five years ago. In a very recent correspondence, he suggested that I add some resistors to the mid/tweeter driver. see his note below. Does anyone here have any experience with adding those resistors to their 3.7's which have the black bezel drivers? Thanks for any input. Hi Kent,
"Glad to hear from you. I have also found that placing a small 5 watt, 2.5 ohm resistor in series with the positive wire, makes them sound great, and more sonically balanced. It seems to me that the CS3.7 is a little bright. This will solve the issue. In the beginning the silver bezel coaxes had a tuning resistor added to the mid and tweeter, as needed. I do have the 5 watt, 3 ohm resistors in stock. The resistors should be added to both the midrange and the tweeter, in series with the positive wire to the coax mid and tweeter. 4 resistors are on their way via regular mail. The original resistors were .33 ohms to .75 ohms. Which were used on the silver bezel coaxes."
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@biannuzzi22 The original woofers and amplifier can be repaired. Are you sure the woofers are bad? Could the amp be feeding them a distorted signal? What's your budget for a new amp? What woofers will you be installing in your SS2 cabinet? |
Happy St. Patrick’s day! Anyone have advice on what external subwoofer amplifier I could use for my SS2 subwoofer? I am basically replacing all the internals of my SS2 and just wondering if anyone else has done this because my drivers are bad and the amplifier is also having some issues. Basically keeping the cabinet because it looks nice. But replacing everything else. |
velocityofhue
My pleasure. Oddly enough, the Pass Labs X150.8 is the only model that I have heard. I rather enjoyed the presentation and sound with an Aesthetix pre-amp, Aesthetix cd player, Thiel CS 2.4 loudspeakers and Synergistic Research cable loom (older series).
Sidebar: A few years back I heard the Pass Labs XP-10 and XP-20 pre-amps with Parasound HCA series power amps, TAD loudspeakers, Esoteric DV-60 universal player, Silent Source cables and Wireworld Silver Electra power cords.
Happy Listening! |
"The test mic will give the software roll off points I assume?" One uses the mic with pink noise (there are free downloads as well as test discs). I usually measure with the subs turned off. In a room bass frequencies sum. So one does not want to have the main speakers producing the same frequencies as the sub and causing a bass bump at certain frequencies. So note where the mains start to drop off and set the Rel accordingly (I currently have a pair of Rel S/812s in the main system) and then test again and get it as even as possible without peaks and dips in the lower frequencies. I also use room treatments.
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ok great! I do thank you for the advice and recommendation Cascadesphil. I didn't know if a certain frequency is best to have dialed in on crossover but it sounds like each setup differs depending on room acoustics. The test mic will give the software roll off points I assume? Sorry if that sounds like a numnut its just I'm all very new to this. I've never owned a subwoofer before
Jafant The X150.8 is incredible sounding. High end sound right from the start. Thank you for a compliment.
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" Hi Thiel speaker aficionado! I have a question regarding a low frequency powered subwoofer speaker addition to my stereo setup. In my case its the CS2.4 towers and Pass Labs X150.8 stereo amplifier along with one REL S/812 powered sub. Out of the gate I can tell it’s more than capable of producing more LF than will ever be needed so its in a good location. (front corner facing the listening position directly behind left channel speaker) Connected up via the high level speakon input connection directly from the Pass amplifier to integrate seamlessly with my CS2.4 mains. Does anyone have tips tricks to get optimal crossover adjustments dialed in perfectly? I’m going mostly by ear and its currently set to 12 o’clock at the level/gain knob and 2 o’clock at the Crossover knob. Phase switch is set to 180" Measure from the listening position (every room will not be identical). If you don't have an RTA, Studio Six Digital has an App (called Audio Tools) for IOS or Android and Parts Express sells the Dayton Audio IMM-6 mic (for just over $21) which has an individual calibration file (for the specific mic). Also, REW (Room EQ Wizard) is free, and Parts Express (Dayton Audio UMM-6) and others sell USB mics for use with REW. |
Hi Thiel speaker aficionado! I have a question regarding a low frequency powered subwoofer speaker addition to my stereo setup. In my case its the CS2.4 towers and Pass Labs X150.8 stereo amplifier along with one REL S/812 powered sub. Out of the gate I can tell it’s more than capable of producing more LF than will ever be needed so its in a good location. (front corner facing the listening position directly behind left channel speaker) Connected up via the high level speakon input connection directly from the Pass amplifier to integrate seamlessly with my CS2.4 mains. Does anyone have tips tricks to get optimal crossover adjustments dialed in perfectly? I’m going mostly by ear and its currently set to 12 o’clock at the level/gain knob and 2 o’clock at the Crossover knob. Phase switch is set to 180 Best regards,
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vair68robert - I susepect it's they guy who makes aftermarket 'fixes' for various speakers. when I spoke with him a few years ago he said his units 'fixed known abberations in the Thiel's upper midrange'. Rob Gillum bought one to measure and said he was reducing amplitude across the upper midrange and introducing phase-shift. Parts quality was significantly below Thiel's standards. These units are 'pre-crossovers', not replacements. They pre-shape the signal before it goes to the internal crossover. Again I'm speculating what's up, could be something else. |
dmanzi0219
Welcome! Good to see you here today. Feel free to read through this thread as we have a few Panel members with SS1, SS2 subwoofer(s) in their systems. Otherwise, stay tuned until one of our experts chimes in to address your query. I look forward in reading more about your Musical tastes. Happy Listening! |
@dmanzi0219 Remove the screws on the outer edge of the amplifier plate to remove from the rear. |
jafant - yes, we can read it. Thank you. It's always sobering when a friend, or associate of any kind, vanishes. I feel fortunate that you re-introduced me to Bill 5 or so years ago. Bill and I knew each other as co-exhibitors at audio shows, but otherwise had no involvement. When you recommended him to upgrade my classic Classé gear it was a great fit. That led to Bill becoming part of the nascent Thiel Renaissance dream. Bill worked on the CS3-3.5 equalizer upgrade, specifically conversion to two separate mono fully balanced units powered by a single outboard power supply. Bill's declining health put that project way on his back burner and I'll be picking up the pieces on my next trip to Virginia. Bill was a very special person on many fronts. Regarding audio, he would bring his accumulated big bag of special insight and experience to bear on whatever the project at hand. The results were always good. I am pleased to have his final Oppo 105 upgrade. It plays any/all disc formats in elegant form. Parkinson's and all degenerative diseases seem especially cruel. Bill faced his journey with characteristic upbeat good will and good work. We'll miss him. |
2nd Note; Over on Audio Asylum (AA) there is a very nice piece on Mr. Bill Thalmann submitted by Abe Collins. Read under Central link/tab. I have written previously that Mr. Abe Collins is directly responsible for my peaked interest in Thiel Audio loudspeakers. I enjoyed reading about his Audio journey leading up to my 1st audition with model CS 2.4. Abe still has those loudspeakers in his listening room. A few years back I purchase his Accuphase DP-65v Reference cd player. This spinner continues to hold up well in 2024.
Happy Listening! |
Tom, thank you for your feedback, I’m disabled so I have some trouble getting the wires hooked to the bottom. Though once done, it won’t be a problem. We are still unpacking, and my music room is the last to get setup, so I’ll report back on banana plug connections. I have large spades now, and bananas on both ends will make hooking up, or changing wire easier, and per your report, sonically superior.
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biannuzzi22 - I'm not a 2.3 expert, but I might shed some historic light around it. The CS2.3 was the first-generation Thiel-designed coax. The 1990 SCS used a stock ScanSpeak 6.5" coax which solved Thiel's fundamental problem of working properly only for a seated listener 8' or more away. The coax upper driver was then applied to higher priced Thiels. By 1996 enough experience had been gained to produce a cost-effective coax. The model 2 was the chosen platform because its use in rooms smaller than for the model 3 and up made the model 2 a good candidate. Note, the model 1 never got a coax for cost reasons. The brainstorm was to create a mechanical crossover between the voice coil and midrange cone based on resilience/ viscosity to decouple the midrange cone from the directly driven tweeter dome - in just the right way. The product could only be created because we were prototyping all our drivers in-house by that time. It took more than a year of iteration to get it right. It worked, but with shortcomings that Jim addressed in the subsequent 2003 CS2.4. The 2.4 is considered the sweet spot of that design. The bucking magnet was added in 2001, #4567 to manage the home theater use near televisions. The 2.3 coax was less expensive to produce than the 2.4, so it continued its career in the PCS and MCS models. Jim continued work on the wrinkles of the mechanical coupling and had hoped to use an improved version in the CS7.3. A major element of that driver is the obviation of any electronic crossover between the midrange and tweeter. The joint crossover is devised to drive one electrical motor with compound mechanical elements covering the combined range. Note: both the woofer and coax crossover sections are quite different between the models implying significant differences between the drivers. They are not interchangeable between the models. Your 2.3s are what they are. Any differences from the 2.4 would be speculation on my part. I have 2.4s and can't believe the wonderful sound quality for the price. That niche was in the DNA of the model 2 from the start. |
In case anyone is interested. TMR has listed a pair of Black CS 2.4 speakers - serial# 1523, 1524. Asking $1199 + $399 for shipping within continental US tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/thiel-cs2-4-floorstanding-speakers-black-pair/ TMR lists the age as 11 years. This I would take with a grain of salt. When I purchased My own pair of Thiel CS 2.4 serial# 2951, 2952 in 2011 they had 5 years left on their 10 year warranty. Therefore, based on the serial#s, I’d say that the date of manufacture for the pair just listed by TMR dates to somewhere between 2003 (the year of introduction) and 2006 (the year of manufacture for my pair). |
FWIW, I personaly really like the bottom mounted cable posts. IMHO, they are an elegant solution to what otherwise would be a daily eye sore. Furthermore, it mitigates connectivity issues from curious children and pets, and the lessening of slack helps keep adults from tripping over speaker cables too. |
kheine - Yes. There's a long story about the bottom inputs, but we can summarize that my design goal of furniture elegance without electronic clutter, has been less than popular. Here are some considerations for your move that include the fruit of my recent redevelopment work. I believe that the 'wire as waveguide' construct is more functional than 'wire as electron conductor'. Sound quality will be improved more by managing propagation fields than by making lower resistance connections. I now land firmly on banana plugs rather than spades or bare wire. I also remove any excess conductive mass in the signal propagation path to reduce eddy currents. Therefore I judge your 3.6 plastic capped binding posts as sonically superior to the later large metal lugs and knobs. But greater improvement can be made by streamlining the signal path further by repositioning the inputs away from the electrically conductive input panel and using a straight-line, a low mass terminal system directly through the cabinet (bottom or) back. There is something to be said for positioning them at the back edge of the bottom, facing down. (I suspect you would rather not.) I highly recommend the Electra connectors from GR Research. In fact, as a stand-alone improvement I suspect their ise will bring the largest SQ improvement / cost of anything you can do to your speakers. You would mount the pair at the bottom / back of the cabinet, right through the MDF panel (bottom or back). You can gain sufficient access through the woofer and the existing input panel. Let us hear about your outcome. |
