Thiel Owners

Esprit - have the 5s and 7.2s been tried in the same position in the same room with the same driving source?

Esprit4s
i am powering CS5’s with Bryston 7b monoblocks. Positively no lack of bass.
my room is not boomy.
start investigating, Tom goes right to driver testing. I would then go to placement, Tom might go to crossovers.
if you are near NJ and want a baseline to compare, come on over.

Esprit4s,
i am powering CS

Thank you Tom.  I will start there.

espirits4s - I cannot address more than the CSi, since I have no personal experience with the CS7.2 or your particular amp. But that amp doubles twice to 1400 wpc into 2 ohms, implying that it should do fine into the 1.2 ohm load at 10 hz. The 7.2 has the opposite characteristic, a rising impedance going low, so a long cable run would act differently between the 2 models. But, it seems far-fetched to me that an amp or cable interaction would be responsible for a significant bass difference. 

I have considerable experience (in the day) with the CS5 - and I wouldn't call it bass-shy with a good amp - which you have. So, I would look for a speaker problem. First-off you can test viability and polarity of all the drivers with a single 6-volt lantern battery rigged for intermittent contact to the input terminals. Plus to red should make all drivers push out - a second or two won't hurt the drivers.  A dead or reversed-polarity driver would make trouble. The lowest and upper 8" woofers are the subs which would reduce bass power without affecting tonal balance noticeably. Please report your driver test as a base-line.
Tom

good job MA.   keep us in the loop

Hey guys! I know a few of you have been wanting an update and I apologize for the delayed response. I appreciate your continued interest in this newbies journey. I apologize in advance for the long post.
The trip out to Denver was awesome. It was very rushed as I left my wife at home with 3 children the youngest of which is an 8 week old. I flew into Denver on a Sunday night with the plan being to pick up the speakers Monday morning and drive them all the way back to Alabama by Tuesday evening(I made it).

The dealer who sold me the speakers was very nice and very knowledgeable about Thiel, both their products and their story. He said he knew Jim and was very good friends with Kathy. He had some pretty cool Thiel stuff to show me including a cross section of a 2.4. I got a picture of it you can see here. http://imgur.com/hVzEC4J I don’t know how to post it in the forum. I have it as my profile picture now. I got a picture of the serial number off the cross cut 2.4 if someone is collecting 2.4 serial numbers. He also had a pair of 2.4s and 2.7s(not cross sectioned). I have those serial numbers as well.

The dealer was also a Cardas dealer and he was willing to let me take cables home to demo. What he says he typically does is he gives the customers cables to demo at home that are at a price point the customer is comfortable with, then he also adds cables that are a step above that in price so the customer can hear the difference and decide which one to get. Then the customer returns the cables he doesn’t want or returns them all. I passed on getting any cables to demo until after I have the system burned in.

The speakers made the journey across the country safely and in good condition. I am so pleased with the way they sound. Everyone told me to brace for how terrible they would sound out of the box but I thought they sounded great compared to what I’m coming from. My entire system is brand new so everything needs burning in. I have all PS Audio gear, the BHK 250 amp, BHK Signature preamp, and DSD Jr DAC. I also have a MoFi Ultradeck turntable but I am still shopping for a phono so I haven’t played with it yet. So far I have been streaming to the DSD Jr DAC using my iphone with an app called Mconnect and Qobuz. Mconnect is the interface, kind of like Roon, but it is a one time fee of $5 as opposed to Roon’s subscription service. I like Qobuz so far but Mconnect keeps crashing so it might not be a viable option.

So most importantly, how do they sound? I always get so intimidated trying to explain what I am hearing to a bunch of very experienced audiophiles and critical listeners such as yourselves so please pardon my inexperience and lack of reference. As far as the speakers, I think they sound amazing and I thought they did out of the box as well but just got better and better with each hour I put on them. I told RonKent it was like watching a flower slowly bloom. After the first 100 hours they really started to open up. The sound stage is amazing but not quite on par with what RonKent has achieved. It does seem like as more time passes the sound stage has gotten more depth and separation to it. I had more than one person tell me in a critical way that Thiel are very forward sounding and I am not getting that at all. The sound is coming from the back wall and depending on the recording the speakers do seem to almost disappear. Voices sound very natural and pleasing to me. I do feel like there is something off that I can’t put my finger on, I think it may be that the bass is a little muddy or just not right yet but I don’t know. Shortly after I got the speakers home I had surgery, because of this I have not been able to move the speakers or play with speaker placement at all but I plan to start playing around with them this week and see what differences I can hear. I have 350 hours on the system as of now.

Also of importance, my wife approves which was really the big test for me. She told me she was happy to have music in the house again, which was her way of saying it was worth the trouble. She really likes them and we have fun switching seats and taking turns in the sweet spot. My family was busting my chops about the speakers recently and the fact that I would drive that far for them and my wife’s response was "I would totally be rolling my eyes too if they didn’t sound as good as they do". So I guess I win? ;)

Lastly, I know this is a Thiel thread but I wanted to put a quick plug out for MoFi as I feel they went above and beyond in providing me with customer service in a situation where most companies would simply have shrugged and done nothing. Long story short I found that my brand new MoFi Ultradeck was damaged in shipping, but I did not fully unbox and find the damage for a good 3-4 months after I received it. In spite of the long amount of time that passed, MoFi replaced the turntable question/hassle free. For them to do that after so much time had passed speaks volumes to me about how they treat their customers. I am impressed and relieved they were willing and able to replace my turntable. Now I just need a phono!

Thanks for reading, sorry for the long post. I tried to keep it as short as possible.

Hi Everyone,  Very much enjoying that this thread is so active. I've mentioned before that I own a pair of CS5's and CS7.2's.  The CS5's are close to mint, and the CS7.2's unfortunately have seen better days cosmetically. 
  When I originally started researching Thiel speakers, the CS5's were on my dream list.  Once I finally found a pair locally, it was a packaged deal with a pair of CS7.2's that needed work.  After sending the damaged CS7.2 woofers to Rob Gillum for complete rebuilds, the speakers sound great despite being cosmetically challenged.  At some point, I need to decide between the two speaker pairs on which to keep.  I've started A/B'ing them, and one thing that stands out is that the CS5's seem to be bass shy compared to the CS7.2's.  I am using the same amp on both (Levinson 436 monoblocks), they should have plenty of power. 
  So, my question is should this be expected, or should I be looking into the CS5's for issues?

R. I. P. Dr. John. 

My system consists of pretty old stuff. I quit upgrading when I couldn’t hear much difference anymore. Initially, I could learn to hear better so I could eventually hear improvements that I did not perceive before. But eventually, I reached the limit of what I am able to learn, so I stopped upgrading.

The music room system has a turntable, a sacd player, a tuner, and a cassette player. The TT has a Koetsu Rosewood Signature mated with a Graham Phantom (original) custom mounted on a VPI TNT HRX (the older HRX which normally came with a JMW arm). The disc player is a Sony SCD 1. The tuner is a Mac MR 78. The tape player is a Nakamichi Dragon. The preamp is a Pass X1. Interconnects are all AudioQuest AudioTruth Amazon, and speaker wires are AudioQuest AudioTruth Dragon. (I bought these when silver was still affordable.)

Everything is standard stock, unmodded, except the TT rig. I mentioned it in a post https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vpi-tnt-hrx-table-what-tonearms/post?highlight=vpi%2Btnt%2Bhr...

I described the Pass amps driving a difficult load in another post https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/anybody-using-wilsons-or-soundlabs-with-pass-labs/post?highli....

I can imagine.

Bought my 3.6s new in the mid '90s.  They still sound great.

They were my main speakers till 2001, then they were rotated to another room.  In 2015, I moved and stored them in their boxes.  I hope the low usage contributes to longer life.  I recently moved again, and they are now set up in a music room separate from my AV room.

They are fed by a pair of Pass X600s which seem to handle the 3.6s' impedance and phase challenges well.  This rig is particularly revealing for live jazz recordings -- puts me right in there.

Happy Friday! All

Second Note;I would not rule out the CS 1.6 nor CS 1.7 loudspeaker should a pair become available.  Happy Listening!

cabinlife
Right On! I read that article as well. The CS 1.5 does show up often here as well as eBay and U.S. AudioMart.  Happy Listening!

Jafant, thanks for your help. I found a article in soundstage August 1999 about Thiel 1.5 running on a  Jolida sj202a. A older version of my amp. Said it did a fine job. I will just keep my eye out for some 1.5 some will pop up. If anyone has that amp and have different speakers please let me know. Thanks 

cabinlife
My pleasure assisting you. JM Labs/Focal are fine speakers indeed.
If you enjoy the house sound, seek out a pair of 928 or 936 models.Those are classic loudspeakers.

Can you audition the Jolida and CS 1.5 prior to purchase?Happy Listening!

Cabinlife, the 1.5 has good mid and high but the lower range would benefit from a pair of subwoofers. Well suited for smaller spaces.

I will take a look at the other sites. Thank you! I’m currently using JM labs/Focal chorus 706s, schitt modi multi bit, audioquest type 4 speaker cable, audioquest cinnamon usb cable, Kimber pbj interconnects, all running with MacBook Pro. I’m also looking at focal cobalt 816s. 

ronkent
Good to see you as always. Thank You for the follow up as well.Happy Listening!

prof
Thank You for the blogspot link.  Happy Listening!

cabinlife
Welcome!  it has been a few years ago, I do recall owners of Thiel Audio speakers mating with Jolida gear. As your time allows search here and over on Audio Asylum/AVS Forum.

What other gear including cabling is in your system?Happy Listening!

Thanks for that, ronkent.

Ugh.  Earbuds....

Hello, I’m looking for some advice and this looks like the place. I have a jolida jd 202 brc. I’m looking at thiel 1.5 speakers. What do you think? 

I asked my friend Parke Pauterbaugh who used to be a writer at Rolling Stone if he knew anything about the experiment with Thiel and Bryston.  here is our conversation: 

PP: No, I never heard. Last time I visited the mag they were all listening to music on earbuds. The place was quiet as a church. Not like when I worked there and music was blaring from many offices.
Me: thanks. sounds like it has become a really boring place. who would listen to rock and roll on earbuds? what a waste of good music
PP: It was a boring place. I was dismayed at what a character-less place it had become.

Somewhere in the bowels of this thread I believe I posted this link before:

http://thielaudio.blogspot.com/2009/09/please-share-your-memories-of-jim-thiel.html#comment-form

With Thiel being gone, I'm curious how that blog is still up and who if anyone has kept it up?

I found the following link that provides a bit of info from Bryston about the Rolling Stone "test":

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91778.0

I've tried searching before for any mention of what happened with the Thiel/Rolling Stone scenario, but never found any info.

jafant,

Have you heard from bighempin about his trip to Denver last month to pick up his 3.7s? (his last post here was 4/27). I know you were helping him locate a pair.

Jon

Prof - at that time I was not tuned into Thiel Audio nor Rolling Stone, so I heard nothing of that "test". It would be interesting to know of any follow up or results.

What a bummer that we never heard any more about this experiment featuring Thiel speakers and writers at Rolling Stone:

https://www.cnet.com/news/rolling-stone-magazine-discovers-high-end-audio/

tomthiel, did you ever hear about the results of that "test?"

Beetle - I have not yet made a direct comparison of single vs bi-wire.My working assumption from multiple inputs is that there will be an improvement; the degree and cost-effectiveness is my concern. Additional to your experiences and those of others, my personal experience is from the development of the CS3 in 1982, which was bi-wirable. Those development experiments were conclusive and cost-effective.
Thiel's reversal to single-inputs was one of those cases of market consideration, and control. Bi-wirable speakers are viewed, especially in the day, as "requiring" double cable runs and/or dual amplifiers to meet their design goals, which significantly increases consumer cost. The other rub was that some users chose radically different cable runs which degraded system performance. Jim could not tolerate that system degradation and Kathy felt that adequate consumer education was not achievable. 
All of my cable runs are bi-amp in the same jacket, which costs very little more than the same wire with single terminations. I'm getting close to building some crossovers to test.

The speaker terminal plate opening is 2" w X 2.75" h on CS 2.4, no problem to install two set of binding posts.

@tomthiel does that mean that you’ve had a chance to evaluate bi-wire?

Beetle -  I suspect our Renaissance Series will have their own oversized backplates for the double-post upper levels.

Those SEs are from the same seller mine were from, similar price. They appear to be in slightly better condition but hard to know from the pics. Mine were rougher than described by TMR and the pics didn’t show all the cabinet flaws.

The vermillion maple and stainless hardware is stunning. Other than the finish, I can think of only one reason to get the SEs if you intend a Tom Thiel crossover upgrade: the oversized back panel will easily accommodate double binding posts whereas the standard version will fit only one. Of course, you could always drill through the cabinet for the second posts but that’s a less satisfying solution, IMO (see pics on my system page).

Sweet pair of CS2.4SE in Vermillion Maple.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ehgd-thiel-cs2-4se-floorstanding-speakers-vermillion-maple-pair-30th-anniversary-14948-full-range

In case anyone with a Thiel smartsub wants spare drivers, they are being auctioned off in the current Thiel liquidation:

https://www.mclemoreauction.com/auction/complete-liquidation-of-thiel-audio-products-co-llc-includin...

Unsound - thanks for the recap. You might remember that I use PowerPoint 1.2s with an unusual 45° wall launch pattern, which I have placed on adjacent walls of a corner.  There definitely are merits to the engineerable predictability of boundary propagation.

Tom