@jafant all American 100% and no plans to move his operations to a different country EVER.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
14,028 responses Add your response
@thieliste, at some point it all becomes academic, no Thiel goes down to 1 Ohm and the there is only so much power coming from the wall. But, you do realize that Gryphon Antileon’s impressive 1 Ohm spec is the equivalent of 150 Watts into 8 Ohms. If one had a large room, they might be served powering their Thiel’s with a larger amp that could double down into 2 Ohms. Probably cost less too. Lovely sounding amps though! |
There are several posts on the PS Audio forum stating how well the M700 monoblocks work with Thiel speakers, including the 3.7. If the M700s work well, then the more powerful M1200s should work even better. Both models are spec'd as solid down to 4 ohms and stable at 2 ohms, which still leaves a few questions about driving a 2.4 ohm speaker like the 3.7. However, one poster commented on how replacing a ML 533h amp with the M700s restored the powerful bass performance that had been present earlier when the 3.7 speakers were demo'd with mono Krell amps. Just further food for thought. |
@tomthiel @tmsrdg A big thanks for the posts about John Siau’s analysis and the hands on experience with the AHB2 + CS3.7. You guys just saved me a whole bunch of hassle. I can just concentrate on the single stereo amp and it sounds like I have a good combo for the CS3.7. I think I will keep my eyes open for whatever Purifi comes out with. They are supposedly looking to delivery a new much more powerful Class D amplification module. I have not heard the first gen Purifi amps yet but they seem very similar to the AHB2. BTW - @tmsdrg I also tried the StarQuad XLR's on my sources but found that the Audience Au24 SE XLR was preferred. I happily use StarQuad for preamp-2-amp. |
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thieliste - what's the price tag?Anybody tried the new PS Audio 1200 watt monos? They state 2ohms as suitable for musical transients, so I donno." Not using the PS Audio 1200W monos. It uses the IcePower AS1200 modules with their own custom (12AU7) tube input buffer. I have an EVS 1200 which has two of the same mono input modules with a custom mods and buffer designed by Ric Schultz. No problems driving my Thiel 3.7s to insanely loud levels and they are between two and three ohms over much of the band (there were a couple of magazine tests that measured the minium impedance of 2.4 and 2.3 ohms). Before that, I had an unmodded (Mivera Audio) AS1200 stereo amp which easily drive the 3.7s better in all respects to a well know Class A/B amp (and I had another well know Class A/B amp before that). Those are no my opinions alone, as I had others over who heard the prior amps. The module spec sheet says 2.7s ohms minimum, but that is there for people in large concert venues piggybacking speakers, and, while I'm sure they have a limit (I'd be hesitant to try them with old Infinity Kappas which I believe went down to something like a minimum of 1.3 ohms). I'd imagine the PS Audio amps are really nice. I don't really have the space for monoblocks (have an integrated A/V system) so it is really not something on my wishlist but I'm sure they sound great. |
I have the 3.7 speakers. This past summer
I introduced two AHB2 amps to replace my Classe ca 300 which was having problems. They sounded so good I moved to an all Benchmark system soon thereafter: DAC 3B (replaced a Berkeley Alpha DAC Series 2, smoked it), LA4 pre and AHB2 with all Benchmark cabling. I ran the two AHB2s in bridged mode at first, then tried just one amp. I have to say, the single amp sounds better -- better harmonic purity, focus and all the volume I need for massive orchestral music in my 19 x 20 room. I've had it as loud as anyone would want, and no clipping. So that's my system: Thiel 3.7 and all Benchmark along with an Aurender N10 server. It sounds _fabulous_ . I've had a life as a professional classical musician with constant interaction with venues and ensembles large and small. The Benchmark AHB2 has an extraordinary purity and depth, no coloration, just the music, with instruments placed perfectly in the stage. No problem hearing into dense tone clusters in, say, Messiaen's orchestral music. Dynamics, transients, timbre is just as it should be, or rather, as it is. I feel at this point that that's it, no need to look further. |
YYZ - what a system! Thanks for chiming in. I landed on Benchmark for my use and love it. thielrules is correct that low impedance loads are harder to drive when bridged. John Siau, the designer. evaluated all Thiel performance curves and chose only the early models plus the 7.2 as suitable for mono. But so much depends on particulars. My (odd) room is effectively fairly large; I listen in the 85dB range max (except for short bursts of stress testing.) The AHB-2 has excellent protection and excellent LED monitoring. I overdrive far more in stereo mode than mono on the PowerPoint, SCS4, CS2.2, 3.5 and 3.6 (all I have.) Additionally, the internal protection is so good and so fast that there is little if any danger of a distorted signal passing through. They are a different type of amp entirely. I land on bridged mono to stay out of clipping almost entirely. Awhile back some of us on this forum (perhaps behind the curtain, I don't remember) compared AHB-2s in mono vs stereo and agreed that stereo sounds somehow purer/more delicate - subtle difference. John Siau is convinced that we are hearing the halving of damping factor in mono and that halving the cable length would make them 'sonically identical'. I'm skeptical of identical, but he has a valid point. Today's tri-amping experiment hasn't lifted off, but I hope to be ready for Natasha's visit tomorrow afternoon. We'll be comparing different amp setups through the outboard crossover. I'll report after I've gathered some experience. |
Regarding the cracked concrete baffle. The chicken's way out (easy and little danger) is to smear concrete caulk on the inside to stop the airflow. Then dribble thin epoxy or cyanoacrylate into the crack from the front and either finish the show face or not to cosmetic taste. Like ultra-low impedance, I judge the concrete baffle to be an inadequate solution. It was changed to a stone x polyester substitute, which required considerable ventilation of fumes - the joys of manufacturing. I've mentioned my preference for the Hydrostone solution that ended up in Hales counterparts. |
Unsound - I agree that the proper rating for the 3.7 would be 2.5 ohms. Nominal impedance is by convention stated at or near the minimus after the bass anomalies. If that trough is deep and steep the rating can be upped a little, but the 3.7 does not bounce back and indeed stays below 3 ohms to 500 herz, where lots of power is required for mid-bass output. I find Jim's adherence to low impedances misguided and limiting. Not many amps perform well into such a low impedance. |
@unsound I saw your prior post on this and do have some concern that the amp may not work. Not a big deal if it does not, the CS3.7 is not going anywhere nor is the Benchmark stack. I plan on setting up 2 rooms once things get back to normal. The Magico A3 speaker I demoed at a store with my old AHB2 sounded closed in with a single AHB2. I actually sold it after that demo since I was thinking I was going to get the Luxman. Though that changed when I bought the HPA4 and then re-purchased the AHB2. I will find out soon enough. Unfortunately I do not have funds available to buy a second AHB2 in the short term. BTW - Did you read the Benchmark designers comments on the links I posted above? https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/running-benchmark-ahb2-in-bridged-mode-and-4-ohm-speaker/post... This is his profile on A’gon. https://forum.audiogon.com/users/gearbuilder |
@xyzsantabarbara, Though Thiel Audio is usually better than most at posting their specs, I think you'll find the following interesting: https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker- specifications https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements Whether it's due to different measuring techniques or rounding to standard numerations, I think the 4 Ohm nominal rating is a bit off. The Stereophile measurements suggest a low of 2.4 Ohms and the graph looks more like a nominal 3 Ohm rating to me. And with a difficult phase angle to boot. I'd suggest working from that 2.4 Ohm minimum impedance when gauging for appropriate amplification. |
"Running Benchmark AHB2 in bridged mode and 4 Ohm Speaker " https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/running-benchmark-ahb2-in-bridged-mode-and-4-ohm-speaker?high... Here is the designer of the AHB2 addressing the posts on the thread linked above. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/running-benchmark-ahb2-in-bridged-mode-and-4-ohm-speaker/post... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/running-benchmark-ahb2-in-bridged-mode-and-4-ohm-speaker/post... BTW - I think the Purifi amps from guys like March Audio in Australia could be similar to the AHB2. |
@tomthiel I will have the following audio system on Saturday with an almost pure Benchmark setup. Thiel CS3.7 | DAC3B | HPA4 preamp | single AHB2 amp | 2 tuners | SACD | 15 foot StarQuad XLR peamp-2-amp | Audience AU24 SE XLR and RCA | Benchmark speaker cable. I went with the all Benchmark setup because I thought the HPA4 was the best piece of audio gear I ever heard and wanted to hear this gear in what Benchmark considers the optimal setup. They recommend professional StarQuad XLR. A lot of documentation on their web site. The system today sounds very clear and neutral with my KEF LS50’s. No fatigue or harshness whatsoever. It definitely does not have that warm detailed glow of the Luxman m900u amp I heard and would not mind buying. It is more like a peek into the recording studio with this gear as compared to something like the Luxman. I think the neutral Benchmark stack sounds even better than the most neutral system I have demoed in the past, a SimAudio stack with $15K-$20K pieces. I also like it much better than my old Bryston 4B-SST and 7B-SST gear I owned with Thiel SCS4 and KEF LS50. There is less harshness and fatigue compared to these 2 others. My SACD player is a 20 year old modified Sony SCD-1 that sounds much warmer than my Benchmark DAC3B. I have started to play the SCD-1 again with increasing regularity since it sounds so incredible through the noiseless Benchmark stack. You can really flavor the sound with different types of sources since the Benchmark does not add anything to it. Some may not like this character but for me it is a revelation and the fact that is cheaper than the other options I was considering is icing on the cake. I am not sure if the 4 Ohm CS3.7 will work with the single AHB2, pretty sure 2 AHB2’s will work. My room is small and i do not play that loud in my office. However, if the AHB2 is not a good match, the CS3.7 goes to another room and the AHB2 stays. |
papasmove The Panel has posted some information within this thead about cracked baffle(s) and corresponding concrete applications. I will review back and attempt to recover an answer or general consesus regarding this important matter. Rob and Tom are our resdient experts. Read over their opinions as well. Happy Listening! |
tomthiel Yes- the 70's Phase linear did have a reputation for catching fire, as well as, those early editons of Counterpoint gear. After Counterpoint folded as a company, Mike Elliott did continue to offer repair/upgrades to his products.He is now retired. There is another Audiophile that took over that operation although it has been a few years back. A Google search might find the latest repair/upgrade tech currently. Happy Listening! |
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I googled expansive grout and all the top results were for non-explosive demolition grout. That can’t be right." https://www.targetproducts.com/portfolio-item/portland-expanding-grout-quikrete/ |
@jhouse55 despite they heavy electrical abuse they went through with the last owners, the finish on mine were damn near flawless. Obviously minor scuff here and there but other than that, almost perfect finish. I wish I could help but I’ve never tried to get rid of fading or stains on the finish of speakers. |
Well rob said if the speakers aren’t sounding or doing anything weird they’re probably fine just that they sit at 3 ohms. Only issues that exist is related to the power amplifier. I’m betting that because my thiels are 3 ohms they hang in the lower 2 ohms which my adcom gfa 5800 isn’t officially rated for. |
Has anyone ever had any problems with the lighter veneer on their Thiels? Mainly referring to a cup stain or something else and then tried to get it out by light sanding etc. @thoft did you do anything with your 3.5 on the outsides or was it just driver replacement. I really don’t want to have to reveneer speakers if it’s a light stain, but I’m thinking a little sanding will be needed, carefully. |
Expansive grout is a waterproof cement product with adhesives, designed to expand in a crack to seal it. It may be called foundation crack sealer, wet-stop or similar. Those original CS7 baffles were portland cement concrete, which continues to shrink over time. (Its first cure cycle is 7 years, when its shrinkage is nearly over.) Grouts add gypsum and/or other expansive masonry ingredients to achieve various controlled expansions. I don't know what exact product Thiel (or the nearby repair shop) used. But a millwright or masonry contractor should point you in the right direction. Disclaimer: After my time at Thiel |
@thoft, I once heard B&W 802’s through a Counterpoint hybrid amp playing the most glorious chorale music at one of StereoExchange’s older locations in NYC. A huge space. It was the one and only time I remembered enjoying B&W’s. I had become somewhat friendly with a few of the staff. After about 20 minutes the salesman waived his hand over the Counterpoint and said it was getting hot and he proceeded to shut it down. He then whispered in my ear that these things have a tendency to burst into flames. Something that I’ve heard oft heard repeated over the years since then, |
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