I would be interested in comparing the Benchmark ABH2 to the Bel Canto Ref600M's. Checking around to see if someone has one in the area. |
@catalysis, The Benchmark ABH2 doesn’t have RCA inputs to accommodate the RCA only outputs of the Thiel CS 3.5 ELECTRONIC BASS EQUALIZER. |
@catalysis The reason the AHB2 is a keeper is because it is an outstanding amp. In the top 3 of amps I have heard, I like silence. The fact that it works for me so well with the KEF LS50 is reason alone to keep it since I am not getting rid of the LS50.
My office is small, so some subs are physically not possible. I have heard the CS3.7 sound great with a different amp so I will do some investigation and get it right for me.
I forgot to mention that there maybe a new Purifi Class D amp (hear me out) with much bigger specs than the first iteration could be coming out soon. Now a few folks are raving about the Purifi modules like that review on SoundStageGlobal.com, comparing it with $40K amps. These Purifi amps are in the AHB2 price range and are also almost as silent. They however, have more power where the Thiel CS3.7 could use.
I just read a post by someone from Brazil with a CS3.7 that is expecting a future Purifi amp with 1200 watts at 2 Ohms. He was saying that would be great for his speaker. I think I really need to investigate these new Purifi modules before I go down the road of a Class A or AB amp.
There was some info by TomThiel a few days ago mentioning the AHB2's designers analysis of the various Thiel models and the suitability to the AHB2 or 2 AHB2 in mono. You maybe able to figure out the suitability of the CS3.5 from that post.
BTW - I had the DAC2 HGC into the AHB2 long ago and sold both. When I bought the HPA4 (or LA4) the DAC went up in quality a lot as compared to direct to amp. The Benchmark preamp is incredible, my favourite component from them. I have the DAC3B now but the DAC2 is just as good. |
@solobone22 Well i'm thinking of getting 3.7s for the second time and therefore this time i will purchase a used Diablo 300 with Gryphon cabling.Right now i'm looking at different options regarding DACs and streaming gear.Will keep you guys posted, this is going to be one heck of a rig.
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@thieliste The Gryphon Diablo 300 looks amazing. Have you heard it in your setup? I imagine used they still are expensive. I'd love to do a comparison between the Gryphon and the Krell. Will check around my area to see if anyone has one. The FBI at 104lbs is a pain to move though. |
2 questions for the group.
1. Where can I purchase proper speaker grill cloth for my CS1.2s? Is it the same for my CS3.6s?
2. One of my CS1.2s cabinet (Amberwood) is slightly faded from the previous owner positioning with sun exposure. Is there an easy solution such as rubbing on a stain to darken it?
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Hello guys,
to friends here with cracked concrete baffle issue I would suggest to use a professional sealant called MS polymer, some different producers around, for my professional needs I prefer Sikaflex brand but also other should be ok, just be sure about its composition not silicone but MS polymer. it does exist in black too, large flexibility and also has awesome bonding properties and long lasting against UV ray.
In my opinion this product can be a definitive solution for this kind of repair.
Enjoy music and keep safe. |
One of the midrange drivers on my CS2's has quit working. I removed it and measured an open across the terminals. Any suggestions on where to have this properly repaired?
Thanks.
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@yyzsantabarbara I'm following your AHB2 experience with great interest as I'm considering trialing this amp in my own system, which includes CS 3.5s and a Benchmark DAC2 HGC.
I've read comments about the lean bass of the AHB2, so I wasn't surprised to read of your similar thoughts.
I also, however, note that you consider the amp to be a keeper, so one imagines it has some other very redeeming features.
Appreciate you've just purchased the 3.7s, but I wonder if you've thought about adding musical dual subs to your system?
With a bit of careful setup, this would unquestionably address any perceived bass deficiencies and enable you to enjoy the plus points of the AHB2.
A couple of years ago, I stopped using the 3.5 bass equalizer and invested in a couple of decent dual subs. I've never looked back.
Anyway just a thought for you to consider.
Do keep us posted.
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If anyone is interested. The CS3.7 I got had some scratches on the top black shell. So I contacted Rob Gillum and he told my to use a semi flat black #1613. So last night I taped the speakers up with some great 3M plastic wrap and spray painted it with the following.
Krylon 1613 Semi flat black spray paint 12oz - $7.40
The shell looks brand new.
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yyzsantababara
Take your time dialing- in and massaging these loudspeakers into the space. Read back over this thread for Hot tips regarding CS 3.7 models.I spent considerable time with this incredible speaker. Appropriate room size is critical. Experiment and keep us posted on your progress.Van Halen - s/t is an excellent disc for testing any system. Have Fun!
Happy Listening!
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solobone22
Nice! score on the Krell FBI. Keep us posted as you massage this amp into your room/system.
Happy Listening!
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@yyzsantabarbara I had the same problem when i owned the 3.7s, drove them with a Classe CAP-151 couldn't afford a better amp at the time.The result was pretty disappointing, after 5 years i sold the speakers and gave the Classe amp to my brother.I know this time around i will not make the same mistake if i purchase again 3.7s i will be able to afford the best amp possible otherwise forget about the 3.7s.Krell FBI is awsome but very rare on the used market, easier to find Diablo 300.@solobone22 you are a lucky man, Krell FBI paired with 2.7s must be phenomenal please let us know how you like that combo.
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Well it was a car long journey to pick up my new Thiel CS3.7. A stop at IKEA for some kid shopping and a little driving day dreaming made it longer trip than expected.
I am testing the speakers out now in my small office (see virtual systems for some old photos). In my treated room with my Benchmark gear, specifically the AHB2. The speakers do not seem to hit as hard as I remember. It also does not sound that much better than my KEF LS50's with the same Benchmark gear (a match made in heaven). It has more bass but the sound seems a little inhibited. On a scale of a 100. If the LS50 is a 60 the CS3.7 with the AHB2 seems like a 75.
My room is not idea for a speaker like the CS3.7 but I am not getting any fatigue even though I am playing music a little louder than normal. Maybe my room is a bit dead.
Currently playing Van Halen debut. I can feel the bass notes hitting me but it does not seem that powerful. Now this could be an attribute of the amp. Some reviews of the AHB2 were mentioning that the bass tends to sound leaner. I think this sound is taking me back to my demo of the Magico A3 with a single AHB2 which I did not like. Though the CS3.7 sounds better than the A3 with the AHB2. The A3 was also in a much bigger room. Many factors that could be the cause of this difference.
Now when I demoed these speakers a decade ago with top end Classe gear it was a religious experience (a 99/100). The second best speaker demo I ever had (KEF Blade #1). This is not what I am hearing now. It sounds very good but not incredible. I know incredible is hidden in these speakers.
I am getting a microphone next week to do some measurements. I will work with Mitch Barnett from Accurate Sound to create some Convolution files (DRC) for this setup to run on ROON. I don't think that will fix what I hearing or not hearing since the room acoustic seem to be decent at the moment. The DRC will make the room acoustics to be excellent.
I have 3 amps that I thought I would look at if the AHB2 was not a good match for the CS3.7. The new CODA #16 maybe the best choice to match my HPA4 preamp since that amp is also very quiet (almost AHB2 level) and Class A for 100 watts. I need to research a bit more on that. The CODA #8 is a bit nosier but may be good enough at $6K. The Luxman m900u would also be great. Luckily I have no cash to spend and will use the AHB2 for some time and play around with DRC and placement.
The great thing is that the CS3.7 seems to work in my tiny room without DRC. Which was very unexpected. So the CS3.7 is a longer term keeper.
My 4 year old son was listening to Van Halen with me on the bean bag and passed out sleeping. He was not feeling it either.
BTW - I am keeping the AHB2. It is a great amp for a matching speaker. A shame 2 mono's do not work with the CS3.7
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Also picked up a pair of the Sound Anchors for the 3.6's. Rock solid foundation and I feel much better about them not tipping over as easily now. The Sistrum stands look great but my are they expensive! Anyone done a side by side with various stands? |
Aloha Folks! Been a long time and quite a bit has changed. One thing that hasn't is the love of music!
Picked up a Krell FBI that has been freshly checked over. This hooked up to 2.7's is another few notches up from a MSB Analog to Bryston 7BST setup. So much so I'm putting the Brystons up for sale. I went back and forth between the Krell and the MSB/Bryston setup and it is so much different for the better in my room with my musical tastes.
The Krell FBI is the one that is a FPB-300CX with a builtin preamp. |
My thiel system is the adcom 5800 with AudioQuest type 9 cables I’m planning on getting. The amp will change to a krell fpb 300 or luxman m700/900u in the future. |
Many moons ago, when a friend worked at high end shop, I helped deliver and set-up various things over a 6 year period. Like the 1.7s. I wouldn't mind finding a used pair at some point (I look from time to time. I have a couple of secondary systems in small/average sized rooms they would work very well in. They were rated at 4 ohms (3 minimum and 87db) like my MCS1 I use as a center channel and like the two pair of SCS2s I have as side and back surrounds. I use s receiver to drive the center and surrounds and it doesn't have an issue. They are certainly not as hard to drive as 3.7s or my old 7.2s (which were really tough). I would, however, get a decent amp if I got them as main channels. |
thoft
what other gear including cabling are you considering for your system?Which gear do you own currently?
Happy Listening!
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oblgny
Always good to see my New York Brother here. Nice suggestions.
Happy Listening!
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Problem with the fiio is that at low volumes it’s a little imbalanced. Anyone have recommendations for good pre amps? Was looking at Aragon pre amps the other day. |
If my luxman ls processor outputs happen to not be suitable for pre amp use I have a new pre amp to get. Useless as a pre amp anyways since you can’t adjust any of the bass or high frequency filters whatsoever. Probably most likely just meant to be used as an integrated only, not a pre amp. I have my fiio k5 pro hooked up and no sound oscillation so far. |
So I have removed my luxman from the equation and I am now using my fiio k5 pro as a pre amp. No problems so far |
So I don’t know if my amp is doing this weird warbling thing or if it’s frequencies that don’t belong in certain drivers going to those drivers. Just now it did this weird clicking thing going from channel to channel. |
So far as synergy with Thiel goes, from real-world, ownership perspective, I’ll offer up Pass Labs, Belles, and Modwright as my personal faves. All of them were mated to various tubed preamps at various times which is how I prefer things to be. The Belles is remarkably similar in every respect to Pass and so much more economical it ain’t even funny. On the pre-owned market Belles are true audio bargains. Just my 2¢... |
^I wouldn’t consider anything that drops below 4 Ohms as easy to drive. They’re not especially sensitive either. |
I wonder if the CS 1.7s have been popular ?Never heard them yet but all i know is that they are pretty easy to drive and perfect for smaller rooms.How do you guys like them ?I've owned the 1.5s for many years and passed them to my bro last year, he now enjoys them in Italy.
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^erratum: the second sentence, fourth word should read: compatibilities. |
^Though I’m confident that most already know not to over generalize a brands different product models comparabilities, it might be even more so the case with B&K’s and Thiel’s. Most B&K’s aren’t particularly suitable with most Thiel’s. But, there are some notable exceptions that work particularly well on their own merits, and just so happen to offer very good value while doing so. |
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sdl4
I have not thought about B&K for a long time now. Good to read that there are owners still enjoying these products.
Happy Listening!
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catalysis
Good to see you here. Thank You for suggesting the Benchmark products.There are plenty of positive reviews across the other Audio forums. Most Audiophiles like their DAC. Hope you are well and enjoying the Music.
Happy Listening!
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papasmove
keep us posted as you try a sealer for the concrete baffle.
Happy Listening!
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arvincastro
Good to see you again. Thank You for suggesting another solid state option in ARC products. Enjoy Fall and the Music!
Happy Listening!
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Tom I am a precision millwright with over 30 yrs of experience we normally use epoxy grout for our motor and pump bases. The millwright trade has changed a lot over the last 10-15 yrs we no longer pour our own grout. We usually set a piece of equipment on elevation and maybe do an alignment, but the "civil crew" will do the grouting.
I like the concrete caulk idea. I've tried 2 types of concrete sealers on the cracks. I used duct tape on the bottom to contain flow but the sealer would always leak. I am going to try a new sealer from the job with the concrete caulk.
I will take pics and keep you posted.
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Hello all!
Want to chime in on the amp topic, using my personal experience: while they don’t get enough love when compared to their tube-based brothers, I have to say that the solid-state models from Audio Research make ideal amps for our Thiels, no matter how difficult to drive. I don’t believe there isn’t a solid-state AR model that doesn’t double down from 8 to 4 to 2 power-wise. I had no problems driving my 3.5’s with one D240 MKII amp...getting a second one to run them in monoblock configuration pretty much confirmed that one can never have too much power or current when it comes to Thiels. The best part though: Audio Research solid-state amps are a relative bargain compared to their tube amps as well as many other “vintage” offerings from Levinson, Krell, etc. Match these up with AR tube pre-amps like I have for system synergy and you’ll have some of that tube-warmth with all the power and dynamics solid-state offers.
Just my $0.02 worth. Hope everyone’s doing well!
Arvin |
All
I wanted to give a special shout-out for an Audiophile that has not yet joined us. He can be found over on Audio Asylum- Mr. Abe Collins. This Thiel owner (CS 2.4 for many, many, years and counting), is directly responsible for sparking my initial interest into the brand. For years, I read over his posts and systems both tubed/solid-state with eyes wide open. He can advise on tube-rolling as well. Although I would not have my personal moment w/ the CS 2.4 in early 2012, I had a strong sense of the loudspeaker's personality.Indeed, on that fateful day in Baltimore, MD., the CS 2.4 presented itself as advertised! I would continue to follow this particular model until I found the CS 2.4SE. My search ended that day in Raleigh, NC.2nd Note:Earlier this week I procured a cherry Accuphase DP-65v from Mr. Abe Collins. I have been chasing his spinner for upwards of 10 years now.This player is a BEAST and weighs in around 50 lbs. Japanese disc-spinning goodness at its finest. Pics to follow as soon as possible due to work schedule.
Happy Listening!
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I've said it before but if some of you are looking for great amps that are perfect match for Thiels look for Sugden MP4 monoblocks 165w of pure class A, great mucality.
5k used.
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IME, at least with the earlier >4 Ohm Thiel’s, the B&K M 200’s can compete with much more expensive competitors,
without embarrassment. |
troidelover1499
Welcome! good to see you here. Can you tell us the current and other Thiel Audio models owned? I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system.
Happy Listening!
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bighempin
when you see this post- chime in on the BHK gear.Your system is maturing and settling in nicely.
Happy Listening!
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ronkent
when you see this post- chime in on the PS Audio BHK gear.
Happy Listening!
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I conquer Thiels need some serious high current amp to drive them, i would avoid the analytical ones and prefer the ones that are full body and organic.
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catalysis,
I was happy to see you mention your B&K amp. I'm still using an AVR507 to power five 1.2 Powerpoints and a Thiel sub in a 5.1 set-up in my basement home theater system. The B&K has great sound for a multichannel receiver, and it works very well with the Powerpoints. |
I have had several pairs of Thiels over time. They present some challenges to drive them well to higher volumes as they have low impedance and are not so efficient. But their sound is beguiling and it is worth to the trouble to find amplifiers who can handle the load. |
Hi Everyone. Still dropping by every Friday to check out what’s happening in my favorite Audiogon thread.
Really good to read about the AHB2 experiences. I have been considering trialing one of these with my 3.5’s.
Previous experiences with bridging other amps (using the 3.5s) also revealed that the single amp option was preferable.
I currently run a VPI 299D tube amp with huge success, but the AHB2 has been calling to me for some time, not least because it would make a great partner with my Benchmark DAC2 HGC, of course. I also have a super pair of 1978 Quad 57’s and I gather that the AHB2 is a nice match for those also.
I decided to take my old B&K AVR202 surround amp off the shelf earlier this week. The two channel performance is amazing and you have so much control over gain at both source and output levels. A lot of fun and incredible sound.
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tomthiel
My pleasure to assist. Absolutely! too many cables/cords, so little time!And to think most of the better products are over in Europe. Japan is not far behind the EU.
Happy Listening!
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Gryphon Antileon Evo is 34k in Europe so probably a little more in the US.I think it's overkill for CS 3.7s but it would be interesting to try out this amp on 3.7s.IMO a used Diablo 300 at around 8k is unbeatable to get the most out of 3.7s most likely better than PS Audio BHK.If i purchase 3.7s in the next few months i will look for a used Diablo 300 for sure.Cheers
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JAFant - thanks for the cable tips. Too many variables, too little time.I have direct experience with Mogami from the pro world. It's considered by many pros as best of form for mic, interconnect and speaker cable. Their best is quite good, but direct comparison to Swiss Vovox mic, or Morrow interconnects leaves Mogami sounding pleasantly veiled to my ear. I would gladly adopt some Acoustic Zen or Synergistic Research into my rotation if they come my way.
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thoft
Right On! These other so-called U.S. Cable companies could take a lesson or two from Ted.
Happy Listening!
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