The Physics of Electricity
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The difference between garden variety electrical cord and expensive signal cable is revealed in the OP's original question. His question is based on the presumption that electrical cables and signal cables have the same job--to conduct electricity. But that's not the case. Electrical cables only have to conduct electricity in the form of watts from point A to point B, while voltage remains relatively constant. Audio signal cables (interconnects and speaker cables) are primarily designed to transmit the accurate values (in rise time, amplitude, and waveform) of voltage fluctuations--signals--that represent everything from the sharp transient attack and low fundamental of an orchestral bass drum thwack to the finest, subtlest timbre-defining overtones of the violin and cymbals in the 12-20Khz region. Electrical cord has no such mandate. You can use electrical cord for speaker cable and sound certainly comes out at the other end, but it's not optimized for accurate signal transfer. |
In simple terms? I am asking for trouble (again) here, but here goes... I believe the key thing better cables do better is that they minimise time-domain errors - specifically phase errors and time-smearing. I am a cable manufacturer and our designs are focused on these factors. This issue is not readily understood by audiophiles as we tend to perceive time-domain errors as if they were tonal errors, such as a cable that measures dead flat being perceived as bright because it smears the upper mid-range or lower treble. Even though the scope for time-domain errors is very small in cables, I believe the ear/brain system is incredibly sensitive to the time-domain information in what it hears. This is because the ear/brain system actively processes what it hears in order to make sense of it, but that it has problems when it encounters time-domain errors that do not occur naturally. This is why measurements will never identify what which of two good products will sound better - even if we developed a measure for total time-domain errors, it wouldn't distinguish between those the brain can easily process and those that are harder. Almost all aspects of cable design affect time-domain errors. Conductor material, conductor purity, conductor crystal structure, dielectric material, vibration control, geometry, connectors, how the connectors are connected to the wire, connector surface, connector mass, connector tightness. And as with any other component, the performance of a cable is not defined by simply the conductor material, or the dielectric, or some bias current applied to the wires - not just by the technology employed but, just as importantly, by its implementation. Which means, just as with other components, you have to hear them, you can't decide based on the technologies used. |
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@llanger - perhaps these articles will help explain some of the intricacies of good cable design and what they hope to achieve... https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-time-is-of-the-essence-part-1/ https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-time-is-of-the-essence-part-2/ https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-time-is-of-the-essence-part-3/ Regards - Steve |
Whoa! Somebody flunked electricity big time!. The audio signal is not the music waveform and electrons don’t travel through the cable. And magnetism is produced by current moving through wire, not by electrons. The B field is the induced magnetic field. Hel-loo! Excerpt from one of the articles, “When a cable carries a pure tone, perhaps a sine or square wave, then frequency and time are interchangeable, meaning that the only distortion of the signal would be attenuation. But music is far from a pure tone, and is a complex flood of frequencies in the 20 Hz-20 kHz range. When you send multiple frequencies down a cable, you introduce the possibility of time-based distortion, as different frequencies are affected differently by reactive variables such capacitance and inductance. Our ears are quick to hear the deterioration in fidelity based on frequency-arrival time and phase coherence. To compound the issues, audio frequencies lie in an awkward electromagnetic region for conductors. Don’t forget that audio frequencies are at the bottom end of the spectrum; these are among the slowest, longest wavelengths of electromagnetic energy we harness. Electromagnetic wave propagation: what exactly is the “signal”? To understand why cable design has an effect on a signal in the first place, it’s important to understand exactly what this “signal” is, and how it “travels” along the cable. Visualize the wire as a tube that’s the diameter of a set of marbles which you can push down the tube; the marbles are the electrons. Electrons don’t move without also causing electromagnetic fields, so now imagine a donut with its hole centered around this marble tube. This is the magnetic wave (B field). Now, take a bunch of toothpicks and stick them around the outside of the donut—this is the electric field (E field) produced by the moving electrons.” |
Gentlemen, note that this is an eight year old thread, that was resurrected earlier today by a newly registered member. Judging by his post, his sole purpose in doing so was to publicize a particular course, most likely for SEO (search engine optimization) purposes (i.e., to elevate the position of the site he linked to in search engine results). Regards, -- Al |
" more or better electricity " = NO As one person brought up This debate has been going on since Monster cable was introduced , which I started using because they DID make a difference and in those days it was an inexpensive improvement . There has been several responses that try to explain why but there is not 1 why or because , each manufacture will sound different in different systems . If there was 1 answer then all cable makers would be doing the same thing , using the same materials . While I have experienced moving up thru one manufactures lineup offerings my next move UP might be making my own speaker cables using the same maufactures bulk cable ( 9.5 awg ) using anothers spade connectors for less than 1/5 of the list cost of a compairable gauge preassembled cable . I guess one can have cake and eat it to ! |
@williewonka These PS Audio articles are good primer except for possible errors like this: The electromagnetic field is strongest nearest the wire, decreasing with the square of the distance moving out away from the wire.It is not the square of the distance but just distance (linear fashion). Magnetic field of wire carrying current B = I x u0 / (2 x pi x r) where I is magnitude of the current in the wire and u0 is permeability of free space. Inverse square law applies to single point magnetic field and not to long wire carrying current. |
@kijanki - OK - it’s got one little error (or perhaps he has a different perspective on things ?) But the rest of the info seems valid - hopefully? Perhaps you can take it up with Galen Gareis ? @geoffkait - if you actually read the first article you will see that they are written by an Engineer from Beldon Wire. They are simply posted on the PS Audio site Belden has applied all their design and manufacturing capabilities to high-performance audio cables for the audiophile market. Engineer Galen Gareis is the lead on the Iconoclast line of high-performance audio cables, and is happy to explain the science behind cable design. Regards - Steve :-) |
if I were PS Audio I wouldn’t have posted the error-fraught Belden engineer article on his website. Maybe he didn’t know any better. Maybe he assumed it was accurate since it was an engineer from a wire company and was trying to give credibility to his web site. Who knows? Maybe he was letting the Belden engineer speak for him. That’s the perception. |
Steve, you must have missed my post. There are many errors in the first article. My original post was, Geoffkait: “Whoa! Somebody flunked electricity big time!. The audio signal is not the music waveform and electrons don’t travel through the cable. And magnetism is produced by current moving through wire, not by electrons. The B field is the induced magnetic field. Hel-loo!” |
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Let’s look at the first electricity article published on the PS Audio website more closely. Here are two excerpts (in quotes) along with my comments. “Also as we saw, the “signal” moves down the wire’s outer circumference, and not inthe wire. Therefore, the velocity of propagation of the signal (versus the velocity of the actual electrons) is determined by the dielectric or insulation material that the electromagnetic wave is predominantly traveling through. The slowing effect of the dielectric varies with frequency, throwing another variable into velocity of propagation—but giving us a way to play with it.” >>>>>The signal moves (mostly) inside the wire. If it didn’t wire would not be directional and there would be no differences among conductors, or among purity of the metals. If it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. Furthermore, the signal doesn’t contain frequencies. It’s not the music waveform. The velocity of propagation is constant for a given conductor material, e.g., copper. That velocity is a high percentage of the speed of light. “In one tested cable, the speed of a 20,000 Hz signal is about 110-million m/sec. The speed of a 20 Hz signal is about 5-million m/sec, or about 22 times slower. In other words, the impedance of a cable rises as we lower frequency due to the VP dropping, and capacitance value. Each is determined by the dielectric and the design spacing.” >>>>>The “audio signal” is not a frequency nor does it have frequency components in it. The “audio signal” is a current, an electromagnetic wave. It is not (rpt not) the music waveform. We also know that the signal (electromagnetic wave) travels at different velocities in different materials. In copper the electromagnetic wave travels at a high percentage of the speed of light. That’s because the signal is composed of photons. In free space the electromagnetic signal, e.g., satellite signal, travels at the speed of light. We also know the drift velocity of electrons in copper is a constant. It can be calculated. It’s something like a meter per hour. And the direction of electron drift is the same as the direction of current, which alternates. |
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Given how that the term determined is used, as in... determined by the dielectric or insulation material ...and the definition of determined as used implies... ascertain or establish exactly, typically as a result of research or calculation Mr Geoff has a point....and a good one....not to say there isn't some affect, which there is, but definitely not ascertained or established exactly....or wholly. Just sayin’ eh. |
For the record, I disagree with just about everything in Geoff's recent posts in this thread. However I have no interest in engaging in further discussion of these matters, as I would rather focus on threads and discussions that have the potential to be constructive. Before taking my leave of this thread, though, I'll quote a statement by a world renowned author, consultant, lecturer, and expert on numerous branches of electrical engineering, Ralph Morrison. This was quoted by member Jea48 in another recent thread, entitled "directional-cables-what-does-that-really-mean?" Geoff participated extensively in that thread. Ralph Morrison And this from Wikipedia, which Jea48 also quoted in the thread I referred to: "In physics, the Poynting vector represents the directional energy flux (the energy transfer per unit area per unit time) of an electromagnetic field. The SI unit of the Poynting vector is the watt per square metre (W/m2). It is named after its discoverer John Henry Poynting who first derived it in 1884. Oliver Heaviside and Nokolay Umov also independently discovered the Poynting vector. I will have no further comments in this thread. Regards, -- Al |
almarg For the record, I disagree with just about everything in Geoff’s recent posts in this thread. However I have no interest in engaging in further discussion of these matters, as I would rather focus on threads and discussions that have the potential to be constructive. >>>>Thanks for not engaging me on this subject, Al. You’re the best. By the way, if you disagree with just about everything I said surely I must be on the right track. 🤗 |
There are differences that can matter mainly shielding from noise, ability to establish a sound electrical contact on both ends and ability to deliver current when needed. None of this is rocket science and requires just a good quality power cord designed to do the job well which has some cost but need not cost a fortune. Current delivery will in practice matter more for power amps whereas shielding and ability to make a good contact may matter more in general. |
A few comments. The subject of the thread is speaker cables or wires, and the audio signal, not power cords. Also, why do cables with shielding often sound worse than cables without shielding if shielding is supposed to be all that? Finally, the subject is how electricity works; shielding is pretty much another topic or sub-topic. |
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Skin effect to the rescue! Mystery solved! The current travels inside the conductor. In the case of a fuse, if the current traveled outside the fuse wire it would not melt when required. Hel-loo, people! Distribution of current flow in a cylindrical conductor, shown in cross section. For alternating current, the current density decreases exponentially from the surface towards the inside. The skin depth, δ, is defined as the depth where the current density is just 1/e (about 37%) of the value at the surface; it depends on the frequency of the current and the electrical and magnetic properties of the conductor.Each 3-wire bundle in this power transmission installation acts as a single conductor. A single wire using the same amount of metal per kilometer would have higher losses due to the skin effect. Skin effect is the tendency of an alternating electric current (AC) to become distributed within a conductor such that the current density is largest near the surface of the conductor, and decreases with greater depths in the conductor. The electric current flows mainly at the "skin" of the conductor, between the outer surface and a level called the skin depth. The skin effect causes the effective resistance of the conductor to increase at higher frequencies where the skin depth is smaller, thus reducing the effective cross-section of the conductor. The skin effect is due to opposing eddy currents induced by the changing magnetic field resulting from the alternating current. At 60 Hz in copper, the skin depth is about 8.5 mm. At high frequencies the skin depth becomes much smaller. Increased AC resistance due to the skin effect can be mitigated by using specially woven litz wire. Because the interior of a large conductor carries so little of the current, tubular conductors such as pipe can be used to save weight and cost. |
In the autumn of 1884, Károly Zipernowsky, Ottó Bláthy and Miksa Déri (ZBD), three engineers associated with the Ganz factory, determined that open-core devices were impractical, as they were incapable of reliably regulating voltage.[10] In their joint 1885 patent applications for novel transformers (later called ZBD transformers), they described two designs with closed magnetic circuits where copper windings were either wound around a ring core of iron wires or else surrounded by a core of iron wires. Then there's the utterly unique thing about iron. iron is the destination gateway for black holes. No matter which direction they come from (there are two directions in activity to get to a black hole) They either move up to being iron and then black hole, or they move down to iron, and then a black hole. (just one way of phrasing it) That hysteresis and the permeability, the unique parts of it re the table of elements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)#Values_for_some_common_materials Is there something beyond the normal considerations that we are simply not 'getting'? Something about... hysteresis, permeability and time-space? Something seems to be saying that if you want to understand black holes, you have to properly and fully understand iron, and to fully understand iron, that you must consider all of what a black hole really is. Now..isn't that ...just..interesting. |
Becoming iron actually doesn’t guarantee it will become a black hole. Far from it. Only compressed stars with mass greater than 3-4 solar masses will become black holes. The rest will become something else, a Neutron Star. Of course, no iron or any other elements exist in a black hole as they have been crunched down to their basic subatomic particles. A black hole with the mass of the Earth would fit in the palm of your hand. |
I know there is difference between a Sony receiver and Krell FPB amplifier Be careful what you compare to try and draw a valid conclusion on something else. I know there is a difference between a Yugo and a Lamborghini. Means nothing about cable. None of this "theory" matters if you can't pick out the premium cable every time with the lights out. It should be easy, since it makes an obvious difference. |
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This just in from Furutech, “Alpha OCC-DUCC Speaker Bulk Cable DSS-4.1 Furutech’s α (Alpha) OCC‐DUCC is one of a select few of conductors that Furutech engineers have found to excel in sound reproduction. α (Alpha) OCC –DUCC is constructed using a combination of DUCC Ultra Crystallized High Purity Copper and Furutech’s world famous Pure Transmission α (Alpha)-OCC. Furutech DUCC Ultra Crystallized High Purity Copper -- supplied and regulated with strict quality control by Mitsubishi Materials Industries -- is one of the best conductors Furutech engineers have found for signal transmission. (MMI is the leading manufacturer of the highest-purity oxygen-free copper in the world) Mitsubishi process this extremely pure oxygen-free copper with new technology that optimally aligns the crystals while reducing the number of crystal-grain boundaries resulting in a tremendously efficient conductor. Straight OCC’s benefits are its larger “fibrous” crystals in which one dimension is longer than the other two so as to create as few crystal junctions as possible. Thus, OCC’s sensitivity to directionality; one path exhibits the least resistance. Furutech’s world famous Pure Transmission α-OCC is the result of further processing with the Alpha Super Cryogenic and Demagnetizing treatment. However, DUCC purity goes a significant step further. Mitsubishi Materials designed the new conductor to optimally align the copper crystal grain structure in addition to reducing crystal grain boundaries. As a result, DUCC is less sensitive to directionality than OCC.“ |
...technology that optimally aligns the crystals while reducing the number of crystal-grain boundaries resulting in a tremendously efficient conductor. Gee, someone with a lot of solid engineering expertise went through a lot of high priced trouble to reduce the effect of crystal-grain boundaries. So if more is better, or in this case, less is better, would be kinda interesting to speculate what kind of benefit could occur if there were no "crystals" or "crystal junctions" at all eh. But that is the stuff of science fiction ain’t it, though it would make for a very fascinating thought experiment. |
Postscript: Furutech is also the company that fills or covers the tiny physical imperfection on the surface of wire using some kind of nano tech. You know, to produce a level playing field for the current traveling on the surface. Similar to the Audioquest technique of highly polishing the wire surface, one assumes. That’s assuming current does actually travel on the surface, which is completely up for grabs. Also, the crystal grains deformed by the pulling through the die operation that lie beneath the surface - what about them? Do they sweep them under the carpet. |
But wouldn’t that nano-tech surface treatment require exactly the same electrical parameters as the base carrier to work well ? Otherwise something as elementary as an impedance mismatch would produce reflections that could really complicate an already complisticated situation. So the idea is have a conductor surface as smooth as a still pond at nightfall that could, say, yield a staggeringly good reflection and not a jumbled chaotic mess akin to noise ....fascinating stuff indeed. The potential if that could be achieved is simply bogglistical eh. |
More good stuff. Taking a page from Brilliant Pebbles? They say they aren’t Magic Crystals, so maybe not. 😬 Incorporated into selected Furutech products, NCF features a special crystalline material that has two ‘active’ properties. First, it generates negative ions that eliminate static. Second, it converts thermal energy into far infrared. Furutech combines this remarkable material with nano-sized ceramic particles and carbon powder for their additional ‘piezoelectric effect’ damping properties. The resulting Nano Crystal² Formula is the ultimate electrical and mechanical damping material. Created by Furutech, it is found exclusively in Furutech products. No other manufacturer goes to the expense and effort that Furutech does to develop and produce high-end audio accessories and cables, and NCF is a cumulative result of 30 years of research and development of Pure Transmission high-end audio grade products. Furutech has produced decades of unrivaled innovation within the audio industry. We have enabled listeners all over the world to get closer to their favorite music by making it sound as crystal-clear as possible. We have accomplished this enviable feat through careful research based upon solid scientific principles, and exhaustive listening tests to confirm those results. For example, we have pioneered the use of many revolutionary technologies in our legendary line of Furutech products—the Floating Field Damper, the Two-Stage Cryogenic and Demagnetization Process and many, many others. Now we’re set to transform the audio industry with crystals. These aren’t “magic” crystals, mind you, but a new crystallized material that actively generates negative ions to eliminate static and converts thermal energy into far infrared. There is nothing mysterious about the way these crystals work—quite simply, they improve audio performance in a very specific and measurable way. |