The Exogal saga continued....
I’ve been in sales most of my life. There are always people who are just unhappy Mofo’s . These folks will always find something to bitch about. I’ve had to deal with a few on Audiogon and elsewhere. I’ve bent over backwards to make these people happy. Truth is it’s always about money, even though they’ll try to make it about something else. |
On the other hand.... I bought a comet dac secondhand without the remote. I used the app till i couldn't so contacted exogal to purchase a remote. They respsonded very quickly and sent one to me (over the indian ocean) for free!! Yes the remote isn't great - it's very directional - but it works. I read some people weren't found of the display before i bought the dac - yes, it isn't easy to read, but it's still visible and I actually like the discrete colour of it. The comet sounds awesome too. Best wishes to all. |
Well it all worked out for the better. I sold off the outmoded and obsolete Exogal at a loss but replaced it with a Purifi based amp and an RME DAC. The sound is hugely improved for one third the price. Hugely. And I have the supreme luxury of being able to read the display. I doubt we will see any other Exogal products. |
I've been meaning to post about my experience with the Exogal products and company. Jeff H has gone above and beyond the call of duty, considering my Comet was bought used: he replaced a broken aftermarket cable for me for free, and payed for return shipping when I sent the Comet in for a software update so I could use it with the Ion. I was using the software app on my iPhone until a recent software update nixed that option. Now I'm just using the original remote, which works just fine for me. No, I can't see the display window, but I'd only need it to adjust volume, which I do by ear anyway, so I haven't yet decided whether to purchase the Bluetooth remote. Sound-wise, this duo punches way above its weight class. I have much bigger and heavier and more expensive, and really good sounding, electronics, consisting of an Audionet preamp / DAC and Hegel H30 amplifier---but I've been looking to find smaller, lighter and less heat producing alternatives for future days when I can no longer physically lift the equipment (the H30 is 100 lbs.). Plus it would be nice to reclaim some floor space. I've tried quite a few pieces, including NCore1200, ICE Edge, Devialet, etc. (used with PS Audio BHK pre). I didn't find any of these lighter components competitive with the Hegel, until recently hooking up the Exogals. These sound really, really good, only lacking a touch of body and heft in comparison. The Exogal combo is extremely detailed and natural sounding---really amazing for the size and price. More time and listening will tell whether I'm prepared to give up my other separates for these, but they sure come closer than I would have thought, as I had almost given up on the idea that small components could compete... Highly recommended. |
The new Topping DAC kills the Comet at a third the price and you get a quality headphone amp included. Couple that with any of a number of Purifi Class D amps and you will be shocked at the quality of sound. Exogal fans enjoy paying top dollar for DACs without readable screens and volume knobs but given those parameters ought to invest in a Schiit Modius—$200. Exogal was nice stuff in 2016 but the market has come a long way and I am curious to see how they plan to compete. People are too smart now to pay 7k for a pretty aluminum box. This is just a Wadia rerun. |
Pathetic way to run a business and this one will soon fail. Anyone considering an Exogel purchase, new or used, should think twice. My sympathies to the OP. I firmly believe that character of the principles and the service provided by the company are far more important that the product itself (and I'm talking about product that is complete with all pieces functioning as advertised). |
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Schroeder, I strongly question the professional ethics of your steadfast attempts to defend Exogal. You would do very well to study the scientific and objective reviews on Audio Science Review in an effort to remedy your subjectivity. You can start by reading their reviews of Topping products. I challenge Exogal to send a Comet over there for review and let’s all see how it compares with a number of Toppings that cost well under 1k. The Comet, which is basically featureless, would best be compared with the $200 Schiit Modius which is on ASR’s recommended list. So let’s do it whenever you are ready. |
Exogal has shown it is willing to defend itself. I review; I"m not a PR agent. The seemingly fictitious comparisons you present I would challenge regardless of the company involved. I wrote the reviews of the Comet and Ion, and did the video interview in regard to the Vortex all prior to my knowledge (I believe prior to the emergence of the incompatibility issue of the software remote) of the issues with the software remote. My motivation to write about the Pulsar - which was another unpaid article I did not have to write - was to help the community and Exogal both, to be of assistance in cleaning up a problem with the unit. Anyone who reads the Pulsar article will see it is even handed and is not attempting to defend the company. Ironically, this is perhaps the third time in 14 years where I attempted to go the extra mile at my own initiative, and in all three instances it resulted in criticism from a member of the community (or industry member behind a moniker). The community can see clearly enough the evidence that my ethics are intact. Above, I challenged you on claims of product performance which I suspected were based on nothing more than conjecture, and you responded with ad hominem attacks. You still have not demonstrated that you did any kind of actual comparison, yet you discuss multiple products, imo in completely invalid comparisons, i.e. DAC (Comet) versus DAC (Topping) and Amp (Purifi based). You never did discuss the amp used with the Comet, which is significant, because the Purifi-based amp alone would potentially cause a significant improvement in performance over an older/other class of amp. In your comments factors such as that are completely ignored, yet you want to not only draw conclusions, but use them against a company. From your above description of your activities, you sold off the Comet, then purchased these others. Thus, you had zero comparison of sound, yet you make claims as to which is better. Anyone who has experience in such things will see immediately that it is an invalid comparison to discuss a DAC versus a DAC/Amp combo. The ONLY proper discussion of a product is direct comparison, an apples to apples, one on one comparison. You even extend your fantasy comparisons to a field of Purify-based amps! I suspect that if you had done comparison that was favorable to the Topping DAC as stand alone alternative to the Exogal Comet, then we would have heard much about it. You give no discussion of the comparison, you have no comment on sound quality attributes of each. I conclude you did nothing but sold one, bought these others, and want to slam the Exogal without any comparisons, but act as though you know how it would have gone. That is what I challenged, and I would have challenged it whether it involved Exogal or any other brand I have reviewed. I could care less what Audio Science Review says, and it seems evident that you think you have the ability to draw conclusions on performance without actually using/comparing equipment. Worse, you use your fantasy conclusions to assault one company and promote others. As I said, I will let Exogal defend themselves, but your methods are nonsense. You should know that the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme with the Stacatto opamps under review would best your Topping DAC. That wouldn't be too great an outcome for the Topping DAC, would it? See, that is a great example of the nonsense you promote. Obviously, no one can say which would be preferred without direct comparison. Yet, you, and many others who are ignorant in these matters, think you can judge entirely apart from such comparisons. I suggest you learn how to conduct proper comparisons and discussions of equipment. That is an issue you have entirely apart from your displeasure with the Comet. You see, it's not a matter of me defending Exogal, but a matter of me confronting your inappropriate declarations of which is better apart from comparison, then using that to promote one company over another. Put whatever companies you wish into the slots of DAC vs DAC/Amp, and I would state the same objection. You are brining into your criticism of me your seeming preference for measurement driven analysis of products and advising me to lean on Audio Science Review. As stated above, I do not care what that entity says about any particular product. Superior systems are not built by scouring specs. I could go on about the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifiers, which sports terrific specs - ah, yes, I did so in the review! It would be rather stupid of me to simply look at specs and select an amp as though I know how it will sound in my system. That is another aspect the hubris of many audiophiles in this community. If you want to select a product based on measurements thinking that it will yield superior sound, then great, do things your way. It will not assure you actually assemble a superior audio system. Finally, I don't care much what you or anyone else says about a product's performance when it is used in merely one or two iterations of systems. I typically build a dozen or more rigs, often with many speakers, to assess a product's performance. Consequently, I have a more global understanding of the product's performance than most hobbyists and even reviewers. So, do I give a rip what others say? No, I will reach my own conclusions. Do I expect you to accept this correction? No; based on your history, I expect you to continue to be oppositional. If you wish to be cordial and considerate, then I am willing to continue discussion. But, if you determine to continue your assaults, then I am finished with our conversation. |
I certainly wouldn't compare my extremely limited knowledge to yours in anything that pertains to audio. It appears from your statements that you see room for subjectivity when it comes to measurements, and plenty of people do. I can tell you categorically that after living with the Exogal/Comet duo for an extended period of time I feel that the Purifi/RME (and/or Topping) combo kills them in performance at a fraction of the price as well has having many useful features like a readable screen. Topping isn't the greatest DAC but for south of $1,000 it is awfully good. That is my personal experience based on listening to this combo. I am a consumer like most other people here and don't have the luxury of someone in your princely position of switching dozens of components around and I have to make an informed decision of what I buy. But what surprises--and disappoints-- me about you is the way you continue to prop up a dead horse--namely Exogal. On various videos you praised the late lamented apps and noted that was the crux of the system. You might consider it useful to think of the consumer who does not have the advantages of being a reviewer and actually pays hard earned money for stuff. I believe that Exogal is one of the many audio outfits that releases products that aren't fully thought out and then find themselves in a bad position. That is an industry phenomenon with which you are doubtless quite familiar. I also think to review a pretty cruddy remote that is a rotten substitute for apps made by a company that probably didn't sell more that 1,000 units is odd. I bet the people who paid 7k for those nice aluminum cases didn't envision having one of those! Anyhow, my beef isn't with you and I actually enjoy your reviews so excuse me if I was rude. But my antipathy for Exogal will not abate. This Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme looks very interesting and I'll check it out. |
rotrchia, you answered with more restraint and consideration, so I will continue discussion. :) More than once you have referred to, "various videos," as if I have made it a particular point to promote Exogal, or in some fashion do videos to help defend the company. If my memory serves me correctly, I have done precisely ONE video related to audio/reviewing in 14 years, and it happened to be the one interview of Jeff and Ken regarding the Vortex. I have noted that occurred prior to my awareness of any incompatibility. Yet, you keep referring to "videos" and me defending the company. It’s an interesting phenomenon to have work done prior to the appearance of an issue with a product be described as "defending" the company. Evidence please! Let’s see the links to the videos. I would find that a curiosity, considering I have done no other videos. I am asking you to provide links to these "videos" in which I, "continue to prop up a dead horse," by "praising the late lamented apps." Considering that my one video focusing on the Vortex was done prior to all of the issues with the software remote control, I find it disappointing that you continue to characterize it as defending Exogal. I call that manipulation of the facts. If I wish to be more charitable, I would say it is a loose memory at work. I will tell you what you will discover. You find no other videos. You will - if you are even remotely objective - find that I was merely asking questions and Jeff and Jim were answering them in the one video I did. You have been wrong about the majority of what you have written here in regards to me. Further, you have not simply acknowledged that you had horrid methods in your fictional, non-assessment of the Exogal products to any others you have used. The poor methods involved not only Exogal, but Topping and the amp. You defend your fictitious comparisons by appealing to our different status in the community, rather than simply acknowledging you have no clue how they would compare in a proper assessment. Perhaps you do not know that I have spent decades working my way up from used, budget gear which would rate as Low Fi, to Mid-Fi, to HiFi. I presume you are unaware that I have also build dozens of budget systems in my years as an audiophile. I perfectly understand the intense desire for extreme performance for a buck. But, that does not allow someone to simply make up results. One can pretend, but that’s a far cry from actually building superior audio systems. I must admit that back when I was a budget audiophile, I too made up all sorts of scenarios by which my gear had to sound better. I think it’s an audiophile defense mechanism employed for various reasons. I had to learn over time that it’s not productive to simply guess at what an outcome will be in regards to any combo of gear. :) |
Modesty is apparently not one of your personality attributes. In any case, I'll do better than fishing up your videos and go straight to the written word. In your Dagogo review if the Comet (October 2015) you start your self stated "accolades" by noting that the Comet is "well-planned and executed." You continue to state that the front display is "nearly non existent" and describe how it is basically unreadable. Then you say that isn't a "mistake but intentional [that word italicized for emphasis!] as Exogal does not wish for the owner to actually use the display." Then you continue to describe at length the apps by which the Comet was intended to be controlled. Your review even quotes Jeff saying "the emphasis on device apps won't go away. That approach simply allows us too many features and control options." Well, it certainly has gone away. So very plainly according to both you and old Jeff the Comet was designed to be used with apps that are now no longer available. Yet when I complained about this total failure on this thread you chimed in and defended Exogal. Then you later wrote a review of this crappy remote that is not what purchasers wanted, in fact not even what the "Fabulous Four" Exogal owner/founders initially wanted. That's how we came to this impasse--I criticized Exogal as an irresponsible failure and you defended them despite your past statements in print and otherwise. So yes, you are propping up a dead horse. In your original review, consistent with your methodology, you included no graphs and technical measurements such as what one routinely finds on Audio Science Review. You did have a lot of subjective impressions such as saying the component if "as cute as a button." Is that sort of expression a substitute for technical testing and data? I think not. Subjective rhapsodizing isn't a substitute for science. So I have to wonder how and why a reviewer defends (as per your past contributions to this thread) a totally flawed and ill-conceived component that no longer functions in the manner you so approvingly described in your review. Your communications here are redolent of an attitude of superiority--"Trust me I know better because I am a big whiz with lots of knowledge and experience." Sorry, I'm not jumping on that bandwagon. Incidentally, I checked out your Eastern Electric thing and plenty of very knowledgeable people think it is less than ideal. |
Of course you are finished—you are throughly refuted. I hope that readers here will start reading Audio Science Review and draw their own conclusions. Companies like Nord, Topping, VTV, RME, Gustard, etc. make wonderful sounding components that are a fraction of the cost of some boutique things like Exogal. There is even a little Australian company that offers great components in beautifully crafted aluminum cases. Your choice is a 7k system that is highly problematic versus a 2.5k system that sounds considerably better. Moreover the reviews of these products are based on science and electrical engineering, not fanciful subjective hooey. Exogal will never be able to compete with new products because of their pricing, and on top of that they have promised a “generous” trade in for the Comet/Ion fiasco. Anyhow, do check out ASR—I would never buy anything that didn’t qualify for their recommended list. |
Exogal is out of business. Here's their obituary. All the best, |
I enjoyed working with Exogal as US Sales Manager and helping support dealers. Support files previously only available to dealers can be accessed through the Dealers page. Brian Walsh |
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Made an account to personally say thank you. Thank you for archiving this. I recently bought the Comet and PSU upgrade from a friend and this trove saved me. For some reason my Comet likes the older 3.01 XMOS driver. Even then USB is finicky on Windows but manageable. Being able to update the firmware is also a blessing, and just having the docs is a bonus to me and to my circle of friends with your gear. Thank you again. Love the DAC. Maybe one day we can use the EXONET ports for something else, update the FPGA firmware with new filters/features, and above all keep this gear alive. - Mike |
@yoby The backup site explains it for this DAC specifically, but further: a defunct company should not and usually does not mean you can't update a device. It would be terrible if such were the case.
rtorchia as for "apps" (the phone one that is a copy of the remote's functionality?) luckily there is no need as the DAC functions for me just as it should. I can only think of the Windows USB drivers, but even those are available from the source: XMOS (use version 3.01, not a 4.XX variant). The remote is a bit finicky and the display is peculiar but I knew these things going in. Ultimately it's the digital side, once set up I've left it as is 😊 |
Hey Jeff - I realized I may have misunderstood what you meant. At least one of my buddies was running firmware from around the launch of the Comet DAC - the available firmware is newer and has, at least, one function the original did not have. As for new firmware? The .RAW files are available but.... that's a different exercise of patience I'm not quite ready for haha |
